Current state of KMST JOB Balance

Funny because i've been at several zakum runs during 3rd job where 1 hermit was taking care of the mob control and we never had a problem.

[video=youtube;IFI1qSyl9XM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFI1qSyl9XM[/video]


If you pay attention at the video, you'll notice that the mages use Slow to slow down the mobs so they don't come flying at your face. Mob control isn't killing the mobs, it's slowing down the mobs so the other attackers can kill them.

Funny because i've been at several zakum runs during 3rd job where 1 hermit was taking care of the mob control and we never had a problem.

Back then, when 4th job was no more than a rumour, long before idiots thought Night Load was the name of 4th job hermits, the most godly Hermit's Avenger would take way too many hits to kill the flying ones. And they would be in the line of fire, totally not mob control either way you look at it. Mages though, could and would lure the mobs up on the ledges so that the DPS could work their stuff. When apples came, mob control got obsolete, with 4th job it became a myth for most players, like a time when not all kids had cell phones.

Funny because i've been at several zakum runs during 3rd job where 1 hermit was taking care of the mob control and we never had a problem.

Nope. I've been using my Night Lord before 4th job came out, and I can tell you it's nearly useless to attack flying mobs. Or anything else for that matter. In fact, I bet most of the kills are warriors, because their single target attacks attack the rest of the stuff too. So hermits can only use avenger if someone controls the mobs so they don't rush in them...

Oh wait...

Idem for my Bishop:

- If they wanna make us a real support class, make us the ones who have the following skills: Heal, Holy Symbol, Hyper Body, Combat Orders, Sharp Eyes, a Doom that doesn't suck, and a smart Bless. That's what I'd call a support class.

- If we're gonna keep our puny skills, give us something to attack. A beastly Bahamut, or a freaking ultimate holy attack. And I don't mean a little glorified holy arrow that does 10% the damage of a melee class.

Yeah at the moment the only thing that i believe is getting me into parties is the fact that i have MW30 - people have max HS @ lvl 8x and thats not hard to get to anymore.

Mob control was actually my job (as a PA DK) at 3rd job Zakum runs. Fury hit far enough that I could reasonably lure over most of the spawns and then a mage would slow them. I'd climb down to buff HB every now and then and then go back up. Any Hermit strong enough to be killing off mobs with Avenger fast enough to actually be useful would've been outright raged at for not providing DPS instead - I'm inclined to side against what you're saying, Unleashing.

It worked 100% and perfectly in EMS, i'm just saying what i've experienced.
It can be because EMS for a time had a messed up attack buff system that doubled their effect more or less, regardless we just used 1 hermit that controlled that the mobs didnt disturb anybody.
It can be that it was different in GMS but it worked for us.

It worked 100% and perfectly in EMS, i'm just saying what i've experienced.
It can be because EMS for a time had a messed up attack buff system that doubled their effect more or less, regardless we just used 1 hermit that controlled that the mobs didnt disturb anybody.
It can be that it was different in GMS but it worked for us.

Well, it's not just the damage, it's the area of effect, and the fact that if anything at all comes close enough, you become useless.

Take it from an old school nightlord. If you ended up having to use hermits for summon control at zakum you might as well had quit the run while you were at it too.

I wont deny that hermits could provide summon control, but why the hell would they? It'd be a waste of their talents.

[video=youtube;IFI1qSyl9XM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFI1qSyl9XM[/video]


If you pay attention at the video, you'll notice that the mages use Slow to slow down the mobs so they don't come flying at your face. Mob control isn't killing the mobs, it's slowing down the mobs so the other attackers can kill them.

Whether this used to be true or not, it's a joke contribution even more so now that classes don't have minimum ranges, and plenty of classes have ultimates that can obliterate the mobs faster than using slow. Unless I'm mistaken this is before 4th Job was out anyway, and that's not even why the mage was there, it's not like the mobs were all consuming most of them floated to the top corners the rest were killed super fast, the magician was using Compo, and the few that made it pass the front lines were killed within in seconds, the mages "mob control" was hardly a defining factor in that bossrun. I'd hardly consider that mage essential to the bossrun especially since Bowman and DKs had Dragon Roar ArrowRain/Eruption which could accomplish the same mobbing height as IceStrike/Explosion, but could also turn around and provide decent 1vs1 damage.

Whether this used to be true or not, it's a joke contribution even more so now that classes don't have minimum ranges, and plenty of classes have ultimates that can obliterate the mobs faster than using slow. Unless I'm mistaken this is before 4th Job was out anyway, and that's not even why the mage was there, it's not like the mobs were all consuming most of them floated to the top corners the rest were killed super fast, the magician was using Compo, and the few that made it pass the front lines were killed within in seconds, the mages "mob control" was hardly a defining factor in that bossrun. I'd hardly consider that mage essential to the bossrun especially since Bowman and DKs had Dragon Roar ArrowRain/Eruption which could accomplish the same mobbing height as IceStrike/Explosion, but could also turn around and provide decent 1vs1 damage.

Yeah, what we're talking about was pre-4th job. When Zakum first came out, successful runs were scarce. Slow, area of effect damage, etc. were all needed to remove summons as much as possible do that the main attackers can directly hit Zakum. Whether or not this was the intention of the developers at the time, mages played a pretty badass support roll. It was only later when things like Onyx Apples came out that Zakum runs became more lax and such support wasn't as much needed.

Mob control was only a real thing before people started bombing the pomegranate out of Zakum. You didn't really need mages to do it, either, pre-BB Slow wasn't as good as it is now and any Warrior or Archer could clear mobs.

@Unleashing Comparing 3rd job EMS to 3rd job GMS is a joke. Our first Zakum runs were what, 5 years ago? EMS had much better equips and scrolling options and people were way the pineapple higher level whenever you guys started doing Zakum runs.

Slow might not have been as good, but it didn't stop players from using it back then either. However, in terms of damage distribution amongst all classes, mages actually weren't bad at all back then either. Though their 1 to 1 didn't match that of a Hermit's or a 3rd job bowman's, they had a much easier time taking out mobs from what I saw and experienced.

On another note: HOLY SHEET!! ZAKUM WAS 5 YEARS AGO!?! God I'm old. [/flashback panic]

3rd job GMS runs were awesome, especially when you had pretty much all melee attackers left and could just leave the mobs alone.

May 2007


Mostly thanks to StrayBird we took down about 2/3 of 3rd body with that party of 6... The CB was the only person who could deal 5 digit damage.

@Unleashing Comparing 3rd job EMS to 3rd job GMS is a joke. Our first Zakum runs were what, 5 years ago? EMS had much better equips and scrolling options and people were way the pineapple higher level whenever you guys started doing Zakum runs.

Did i compare EMS to GMS? Because i said that from my experience hermits were viable. And when we did 3rd job zak runs i was talking about runs where the average level was 110~120 before we got apples.
All i've been saying is that i've experienced hermits being the best at handling the mob and we used CBs for the damage back then.

Being a KMST discussion, it's not really appropriate to bring up EMS in any way since regardless of the reason GMS is going to get this before EMS will.

Okay that's just retarded because Hermits have good 1v1 damage in 3rd job while pre-BB Avenger is pretty much the worst mob skill ever.

Did i compare EMS to GMS? Because i said that from my experience hermits were viable. And when we did 3rd job zak runs i was talking about runs where the average level was 110~120 before we got apples.
All i've been saying is that i've experienced hermits being the best at handling the mob and we used CBs for the damage back then.

That statement alone makes me wonder if you're trying to be sarcastic or if EMS has no idea how to play Maple Story.

Oh please, actual mob control at bosses? All you ever need at bosses for "mob control" is more Dakka, and the answer to mobs that won't die fast enough is even MORE DAKKA. No need for Mages to slow mobs down. Just continue bombarding the whole screen with firepower until nothing's left. Boss run failed? Needs more potential, DPS classes, and Onyx Apples obviously.

After reading through like at least 5 different buccs posting in this thread, how did I not see any of you DEMAND BETTER GODDAMN STANCE?!?!?! How about instead of Energy Charge giving 90% stance while active, ST give stance, since the time we'd most likely want stance is against bosses anyway and charge isnt active all that often in those situations.

Pretty cool with the mechanics of the other skills, if they change it to pre-BB csb, i wont notice, barrage would be nice to be spammable (might be a bit broken since it autoKBs) and mainly just want a decent damage boost.

Stance isn't that much of a deal. Yeah like you said at bosses it's needed (Especially Horntail ) and at Golems in LHC. The stance thing slipped my mind but I would rather get a damage boost than better stance. Every job with a stance skill should have passive stance just like Mechs anyway. It's only fair.

Oh please, actual mob control at bosses? All you ever need at bosses for "mob control" is more Dakka, and the answer to mobs that won't die fast enough is even MORE DAKKA. No need for Mages to slow mobs down. Just continue bombarding the whole screen with firepower until nothing's left. Boss run failed? Needs more potential, DPS classes, and Onyx Apples obviously.

i agree with this completely, however, this is also what causes people to think von leon is invincible, that's why this new boss is awesome, it requres some planning and strategy to it (then again, EVEN MORE DAKKA can also work :S)