BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition

Ok....Thanks encouraged again XD

Also don't forget Buccaneers HP <> Corsair HP. That differs a LOT!

More HP = very good to have IMHO...

A 2hko is still a 2hko.

Unless you plan to get to 4th and beyond, you shouldn't even worry about it.

Correct & Confirmed
This is not certain yet, but it's 90% likely that it doesn't stack
No, no, Demolition is nr.2 on solo DPM of all classes

Also don't forget Buccaneers HP <> Corsair HP. That differs a LOT!

More HP = very good to have IMHO...

If they had demo to use 100% of the time i'd be more inclined to believe something like that, but at the moment as far as i'm concerned they're #4 behind NLs, captains, and BMs at bosses (unless you're talking with no buffs. buffs doesn't have to include apples xD). The fact that it's not 100% of the time probably bumps them behind heroes as well...bringing them down to MM/shadower level.

The HP difference isn't a lot, not a lot to be that big a deal anyway since they won't be 1hko'd wherever they are. O_o

By the way, you should have had spadow test it with a higher than 20 attack pot. It doesn't override the onyx apple. O_o

Also, if you're training and can keep yourself from being hit to often. You can actually make battleship last a pretty long time. Maybe even up to that 6 minute cooldown time. Just find a decent sniping spot. How about splitting crimson gaurdians with a hero at the bottom, and you sniping the top with battleship. While infighters are always going to be stuck with the 2 mins per max Super Transform.

Battleship shouldn't ever break if you're training. (or extremely rarely anyway). I kind of exaggerate a bit when i say it can't break because even i know that if i'm training i'm going to have those moments where i don't pay attention for a little bit and get hit xD Unless of course you're retarded with your ability to freeze any monster (battleship or not) in the vicinity for 4-5 seconds. O_o

If they had demo to use 100% of the time i'd be more inclined to believe something like that, but at the moment as far as i'm concerned they're #4 behind NLs, captains, and BMs at bosses (unless you're talking with no buffs. buffs doesn't have to include apples xD). The fact that it's not 100% of the time probably bumps them behind heroes as well...bringing them down to MM/shadower level.

o

There's no way that Fist will bring down infighters to the DPS of a shadower/paladin/marksman. Fist might not be demolition, but it definently is not weak.

There's no way that Fist will bring down infighters to the DPS of a shadower/paladin/marksman. Fist might not be demolition, but it definently is not weak.

This is incredibly true.

In all reality, Fist is only a bit weaker than demolition; probably 20k difference or so. Pretty much...if you have 6 vipers in a party...14 mins of godmode. I know this probably wouldn't be a situation at Zak/HT, but come on, you seriously can't say that 14 minutes of Demoing would put a pirate at the level of a Paladin...

This is incredibly true.

In all reality, Fist is only a bit weaker than demolition; probably 20k difference or so. Pretty much...if you have 6 vipers in a party...14 mins of godmode. I know this probably wouldn't be a situation at Zak/HT, but come on, you seriously can't say that 14 minutes of Demoing would put a pirate at the level of a Paladin...

These thoughts are very true. If you use Fist correctly (assuming it attacks every 2 seconds like demo), your DPS shouldn't go too far. For 2 min it will be incredible damage, meaning 400%x8 which equals to 3200%. This happens every 2 seconds. So, in 2 min, you acheive (asuming you don't get hit often) 192,000%, 96,000% a minute.
Fist is 230%x6, meaning 1380%. 1380% damage per hit, 60 hits, in the 2 minute cool-down is 82,800%, or 41,400% a minute. The average % a minute for Buccaneers, therefore, is [96,000%+41,400%]/2, meaning 68,700%.

So, the average percentage a minute is 68,700%. No way close to that of a shadower.

The problem is that Barrage can't reach several parts of Horntail.
Which is what this argument seems to be revolving around now.

I'd like to know how each skill fares against normal trainable mobs, such as Newties, Skeles, or even those Time Temple mobs. I've only seen the video of the Viper fighting that Red Bull boss and a Captain (which was pretty impressive).

The problem is that Barrage can't reach several parts of Horntail.
Which is what this argument seems to be revolving around now.

Which is why i said they're on the level of shadowers at times.

I never EVER said fist was weak. I do remember hearing that fist matches it's DPM with SB, but as of right now i don't know how that's possible to assume because i have no idea how to calculate fists damage. O_o Sounds right though.

This is incredibly true.

In all reality, Fist is only a bit weaker than demolition; probably 20k difference or so. Pretty much...if you have 6 vipers in a party...14 mins of godmode. I know this probably wouldn't be a situation at Zak/HT, but come on, you seriously can't say that 14 minutes of Demoing would put a pirate at the level of a Paladin...

Fist is not that weak yes, but there's no way in HELL it's that strong.

I never DID say that 14 minutes of demo would put them at the level of a paladin. Read pls. I recall saying (in terms of rank if that wasn't already clear) that the fact that they're not demoing all the time brings them below hero's damage and around paladin/shadower/MM damage.

These thoughts are very true. If you use Fist correctly (assuming it attacks every 2 seconds like demo), your DPS shouldn't go too far. For 2 min it will be incredible damage, meaning 400%x8 which equals to 3200%. This happens every 2 seconds. So, in 2 min, you acheive (asuming you don't get hit often) 192,000%, 96,000% a minute.
Fist is 230%x6, meaning 1380%. 1380% damage per hit, 60 hits, in the 2 minute cool-down is 82,800%, or 41,400% a minute. The average % a minute for Buccaneers, therefore, is [96,000%+41,400%]/2, meaning 68,700%.

So, the average percentage a minute is 68,700%. No way close to that of a shadower.

1) That'd be nice, if fist's damage was purely based off %. The last two hits are significantly higher than the first four in a way that we can't calculate how much damage it does.

2) I don't think you're taking into account that fist has a fairly long animation (not as long as demo but still pretty long), has that 2 second delay, and that it moves you forward. The last one is worth noting because you have to constantly reposition aside from the existing repositioning from attacks.

I wouldn't try to calculate fists damage if i were you. >_> Not until we figure it out anyway.

Edit: What's average percent damage for shadowers both for the SB -> SB -> BS method and the assassinate -> BS method anyway? (or is it just assassinate at extremely high levels?)

These thoughts are very true. If you use Fist correctly (assuming it attacks every 2 seconds like demo), your DPS shouldn't go too far. For 2 min it will be incredible damage, meaning 400%x8 which equals to 3200%. This happens every 2 seconds. So, in 2 min, you acheive (asuming you don't get hit often) 192,000%, 96,000% a minute.
Fist is 230%x6, meaning 1380%. 1380% damage per hit, 60 hits, in the 2 minute cool-down is 82,800%, or 41,400% a minute. The average % a minute for Buccaneers, therefore, is [96,000%+41,400%]/2, meaning 68,700%.

So, the average percentage a minute is 68,700%. No way close to that of a shadower.

Check facts.
Uncharged Assassinate+DS spam is 600%x3 or 1800% damage, and takes 2 seconds. 30 a minute, so that's 54,000%. Uncharged Assassinate+DS spam.

Add in Boomerang Step and that's 600%x3+1000% = 2800% in 2.7 seconds. Damage/time = 2800%/2.7*60 = 62,222% a minute.

The disadvantage to Shadowers at bosses comes from the fact that there aren't any supports that help them much. SE has a minimal effect on those high damage %'s. Time Leap only gets you a few more seconds of Smokescreen. And they don't have any self damage enhancers such as Combo, Venom, Expertise, and so forth.

Check facts.
Uncharged Assassinate+DS spam is 600%x3 or 1800% damage, and takes 2 seconds. 30 a minute, so that's 54,000%. Uncharged Assassinate+DS spam.

Add in Boomerang Step and that's 600%x3+1000% = 2800% in 2.7 seconds. Damage/time = 2800%/2.7*60 = 62,222% a minute.

The disadvantage to Shadowers at bosses comes from the fact that there aren't any supports that help them much. SE has a minimal effect on those high damage %'s. Time Leap only gets you a few more seconds of Smokescreen. And they don't have any self damage enhancers such as Combo, Venom, Expertise, and so forth.

Assassinate + BS is better than SB -> SB -> BS right?

Assassinate + BS is better than SB -> SB -> BS right?

Yes it is

I assumed that. I'm not very well versed in Shadower DPS. But it seems to be true:

Assassinate: 1800%/2 = 900%/s
SB: 480%/.72 = 667%/s

2 seconds for Assassinate is a round figure, since I don't know how long Dark Sight is, but any error in that shouldn't be able to make 900% less than 667%.

I assumed that. I'm not very well versed in Shadower DPS. But it seems to be true:

Neither am i (not nowadays anyway), i was just wondering. xD

Even if there are ledges at HT that fist cant reach, atleast infighters do have a secondary weaker ranged attack. Shadower's can't even use their ranged attack due to the fact they need a ledge in front of them. I have an extremely strong shadower, and I know how weak they are. Those of you trying to calculate Fists % damage per minute are probably going to be off due to the last few hits being extremely strong. So, how about adding a couple more % to that % dmg per minute.

If Nexon is going to allow shadowers to even come close to the DPS of other classes; they need to take out ninja storm, and add in a skill that

LvL 1- Gives all attacks +2% increase in attack % damage and +2 avoid
LvL 10- Gives all attacks +20% increase in attack % damage and +20 avoid
LvL 20- Gives all attacks +40% increase in attack % damage and +40 avoid
LvL 30- Gives all attacks +50% increase in attack% damage and +50 avoid

Someone might think that having an SB do 130% per hit would be overpowered, but i'd just say look @ Triple Throw. Even at 130%, my SB would still barely touch 6k per hit.

Even if there are ledges at HT that fist cant reach, atleast infighters do have a secondary weaker ranged attack. Shadower's can't even use their ranged attack due to the fact they need a ledge in front of them. I have an extremely strong shadower, and I know how weak they are. Those of you trying to calculate Fists % damage per minute are probably going to be off due to the last few hits being extremely strong. So, how about adding a couple more % to that % dmg per minute.

Question is how much.

Which ranged attack is that again? o.o

Question is how much.

Which ranged attack is that again? o.o

Energy Orb Master Level: 30
Type: Supportive Pre-requisite: Energy Charge Lv. 1
Description: Uses a blast of powerful energy to strike a monster.

Level 30: Damage 900%, attack up to 6 monsters.

I'm posting the video to show the speed of energy orb (his is lvl 9)
It's not super fast, but it's not that slow either, and at 900% damage maxed, it's definently a nice way to reach ledges you couldn't normally reach. Not to mention it has a mob ability just like chain lightning. In the video, he gets his booster dispelled alot so it actually looks a little slower than it really is. At about 1:30, he gets a few good hits in without getting dispelled. I saw him do a 23k with lvl 9 energy orb (460%) which is almost exactly half of what it is maxed. So if he had it maxed....... that's almost 50k per hit.
[YOUTUBE]oyxDwglqzLw[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyxDwglqzLw
I'm not sure why the video isn't loading on here, so i'll post the link as well. Maybe it's just my computer


Let's all be honest guys, the cooldown for super transform sucks ass. It takes alot of SP to make demolition useful for cough 2minutes cough. When I make my infighter, I might actually do

11 windbooster + 1 timeleap
then do 2 fist + 1 energy orb per lvl
then max out energy orb
afterwards I'll do super transform + demo.

Super transform + demo is hardly useful for training. By the time I max it out, i'll be at the lvl where i'll be useful at horntail anyways.

So it seems alot of people think that Buccaneers will be turned down at HT alot once they become a common character class, or am I misreading some of these posts? It seems outlandish to me that Buccaneers will be considered a poor bossing class and be turned down en masse even if they have lower DPM, because of Time Leap and Wind Booster. Also, won't Corsairs have to spend time out of the battleship on boss fights? (160k damage can go by fast on a Zak/HT run)

Want to compare Buccanneers with Shadowers and Nightlords at Horntail/Zakum? Let's quote from my DPM Thread:

All classes with Onyx Apple:
Buccanneer DPM at Zak/HT: 125.706%
Night Lord DPM at Zak/HT: 102.291%
Shadower DPM at Zak/HT: 60.594% (1xBstep, 2xSBlow Combo) < Nexon Epic Phail Damage, and they don't even bother fixing this.

6x Buccanneer Party DPM at Zak/HT: 754.236% - 16 Out of every 20 mins Demolition
1x Bish, 1xDkK,4x Corsair Party DPM at Zak/HT: 684.186% - How long will the Battleship hold at Bosses?
1x Bish, 1xDkK, 1xBM, 3x NL Party DPM at Zak/HT: 671.201% - Traditional Party
1x Bish, 5x Buccanneer Party DPM at Zak/HT: 628.530% - 14 Out of every 20 mins Demolition & 6x Revive per 20 mins!!

P.S. For a 6x Buc party to equal the damage of a traditional Bish/HB/SE/3NL party, each of the 6 Buccanneers needs to do 11.302% DPM for the 4 minutes when they're not able to use demolition... I would say Levethian will fix that with ease...

Conclusion: 6x Buc Party's are the strongest realistic party's possible at Zak/HT

Hmm this thread is full of confusion if you ask me.....
Anyways even if it does lower DPM i think the fact that they have two pretty good party skills evens it out.

does anyone know the amount of HP battleship has when maxed? And does the damage you take directly take away the HP of the battleship?

ex. You take a 1/1 hit, get 10k taken away, and your battleship also gets 10k taken away.