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+---- Thread: BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition (/showthread.php?tid=5045)
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - KingDragonXT - 2008-11-09
So first i was like battleship cannon easily outdamages demolition bcz of its speed................But when i saw the the 4th job DPM thread by Devil i am seeing otherwise(or i am not undestanding it completely
)..........Can someone explain..i am damn confused(i hate maths XD)Also i am not all abt damages just curious...
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Kaasoljoyyx - 2008-11-09
You got your answer somewhere else. Due to speed + advanced homing, it makes canon better.
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Corn - 2008-11-09
No...he got it here.
Devil Wrote:Viper - Demolition: 101.376% * (149/175) = 86.314%
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Demolition: 101.376% * (237/175) = 137.292%
Captain - Cannon: 98.496% * (149/175) = 83.862%
Captain - Rapid Fire: 57.600%% * (149/175) = 49.042%
Source
*Shrugs*
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - KingDragonXT - 2008-11-09
Better by a huge margin?Bcz earlier it was like 2m more dmg per minute.....is it really like that?
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - KingDragonXT - 2008-11-09
ClawofBeta Wrote:No...he got it here.
Source
*Shrugs*
Yup thats where i got it from
..i think i mentioned it in my 1st post......
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Alloy - 2008-11-09
Does homing finally work on bosses then? Just curious.
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - KingDragonXT - 2008-11-09
ya i think thats y they say "cannon outdamages demo with homing"
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Devil - 2008-11-09
The DPM thread is only based on snails (no wdef).
The maple damage system is completly unbalanced, since the damage multipliers are used AFTER the wdef penalty has been calculated (yeah I know...lolNexon...).
That means classes with a higher base attack range (the attack range in your stats window) will have a lower wdef penalty then other classes...
That's why I think that Demolition is even stronger then it looks atm...
For example:
(Corsair Scenario)
- If you would have a damage range of 2000~3000 and fight a monster that has 2000 wdef:
-- 2000/2 = 1000
-- 3000-1000 = 2000
--- Skill multiplier = 4 (400%)
--- Max damage = 4*2000 = 8000
--- Wdef Penalty = (4*3000)-8000 = 4000 Damage Penalty per attack
(Buccaneer Scenario)
- If you would have a damage range of 4000~5000 and fight a monster that has 2000 wdef:
-- 2000/2 = 1000
-- 5000-1000 = 4000
--- Skill multiplier = 2.4 (240%)
--- Max damage = 2.4*4000 = 9600
--- Wdef Penalty = (4*3000)-9600 = 2400 Damage Penalty per attack
While on a snail they would do the same damage...
This is why Demolition/Barrage will do more damage at bosses then Cannon/Rapid Fire.
It's just Nexon's own failure to understand their own game damage mechanics...
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Takebacker - 2008-11-09
Devil Wrote:The DPM thread is only based on snails (no wdef).
The maple damage system is completly unbalanced, since the damage multipliers are used AFTER the wdef penalty has been calculated (yeah I know...lolNexon...).
That means classes with a higher base attack range (the attack range in your stats window) will have a lower wdef penalty then other classes...
That's why I think that Demolition is even stronger then it looks atm...
For example:
(Corsair Scenario)
- If you would have a damage range of 2000~3000 and fight a monster that has 2000 wdef:
-- 2000/2 = 1000
-- 3000-1000 = 2000
--- Skill multiplier = 4 (400%)
--- Max damage = 4*2000 = 8000
--- Wdef Penalty = (4*3000)-8000 = 4000 Damage Penalty per attack
(Buccaneer Scenario)
- If you would have a damage range of 4000~5000 and fight a monster that has 2000 wdef:
-- 2000/2 = 1000
-- 5000-1000 = 4000
--- Skill multiplier = 2.4 (240%)
--- Max damage = 2.4*4000 = 9600
--- Wdef Penalty = (4*3000)-9600 = 2400 Damage Penalty per attack
While on a snail they would do the same damage...
This is why Demolition/Barrage will do more damage at bosses then Cannon/Rapid Fire.
It's just Nexon's own failure to understand their own game damage mechanics...
http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/832508/0/#1.4
:/
The only reason demo would do more damage than cannon is if the ship broke faster than a viper was transformed. My math shows there's an EXTREMELY significant gap in their damage per minute favoring cannon, unless you want to go ahead and tell me what i did wrong.
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Kurtle - 2008-11-09
Wow thanks for clarifying this. I am not a damage whore but it is still nice for me to know the rough range of damage i might be doing.
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Takebacker - 2008-11-09
Kurtle Wrote:Wow thanks for clarifying this. I am not a damage whore but it is still nice for me to know the rough range of damage i might be doing.
Are you talking about me? O_O
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Kurtle - 2008-11-09
Lol no, but I know damage whores will look at this thread and then whore up more godly items that i cant afford so i gave up a long time ago trying to afford items.
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Granada - 2008-11-09
Takebacker Wrote:http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/832508/0/#1.4
:/
The only reason demo would do more damage than cannon is if the ship broke faster than a viper was transformed. My math shows there's an EXTREMELY significant gap in their damage per minute, unless you want to go ahead and tell me what i did wrong.
I love you <3
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - DrRusty - 2008-11-09
could someone else put some imput on this topic? We have two people saying each one is better than the other..... and both of them by a substantial amount.
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - KingDragonXT - 2008-11-09
OMG now i am even more confused......
This thread leads to conclusion Demolition is better than cannon and cannon is better than demolition............WTH!
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Devil - 2008-11-09
Takebacker Wrote:http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/832508/0/#1.4Please... no cross forum discussions, if you want to reply to a post, post your full reply and dont link to basil as a reply.
:/
The only reason demo would do more damage than cannon is if the ship broke faster than a viper was transformed. My math shows there's an EXTREMELY significant gap in their damage per minute favoring cannon, unless you want to go ahead and tell me what i did wrong.
Anyway, I read your post on basil, and you're doing it wrong...
I was talking about that wdef has more penalty for Corsairs then Buccaneers because of the lower base attack between these two.
And besides that:
- (Advanced) homing doesn't work (anymore) on Bosses, Nexon nerfed it.
- Battleship will break in a short time when fighting to Zakum / Horntail, while Buccaneers have 16 out of every 20 minutes Super Transform in a Buccaneer party.
Btw, your DPM calcs are quite correct, but your base attack ranges (Using your info):
- Buccaneer (875str+110dex+125watt) => [(875 * 4.8 + 110) / 100] * 125) => 2835~5387 (avg 4111)
- Corsair (874dex+110str+125watt) => [(874 * 3.6 + 110) / 100] * 125) => 2261~4070 (avg 3165)
Range vs DPM Conversion (Using your info):
- Buccaneer 106.620% DPM * 41.11 = 4.383.148 ADPM (Average Damage Per Minute)
- Corsair 138.180% DPM * 31.65 = 4.373.397 ADPM (Average Damage Per Minute)
Conclusion: Both Buccaneer and Corsair do the same DPM on the Snail Boss (Corsair = 99.77% dmg of Buccaneer damage)
Then take in mind what I said about wdef penalty, and you'll see Buccaneers do more DPM at Zakum/Horntail/etc...
Although with advanced homing (it has to be recasted for each monster though, and this will slow down your training again...) Corsairs would do more damage on Skelegons and friends...
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Lerk - 2008-11-09
Devil Wrote:- (Advanced) homing doesn't work (anymore) on Bosses, Nexon nerfed it.
Do you have any source for that?
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Devil - 2008-11-09
Lerk Wrote:Do you have any source for that?I read it somewhere here on sp.net...
Oh wait I was wrong, It got nerfed from being a party skill to being a player only skill...
Ok Advanced Homing works on Bosses! Lemme do some recalcs then!
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - DrRusty - 2008-11-09
Reading Devil's post, it looks like it's pretty close. I guess it comes down to how long battleship will actually last during training and while bossing. Does anyone have anymore details on how much HP/damage taken when you get hit, on the battleship? I looked up both the 4th job skills table and hidden-street but found nothing.
Of course, while not super transformed, an infighter's lack of range will be a severe weakness. (see video)
[YOUTUBE]u1o80gxXDh8[/YOUTUBE]
BattleshipCannon Vs Demolition - Kabanaw - 2008-11-09
Another question, does Battleship reset its health whenever you demount it, or is it only when it's destroyed? This should also be factored in.