Heroes of Newerth.

Terrible terrible terrible move by s2. Making it free might be acceptable but the way they did it was just horrible. Right now you can buy the heroes in shop or play the 15 heroes which change each week. The only problem about this is that some heroes such as sand wraith is AMAZINGLY cheap but then are some heroes like parasite which are sick expensive. Funny thing about this is that sand wraith is a good team fight hero, parasite is just.. trash? But on avg after 75 matches you will have around 500-700 silver coins and if one hero cost 650 silver coins, dont expect new players to enjoy the alt avatars, announcer packs etc. Make the heroes cost 90 silver coins each and 40 gold coins each or make it p2p again.. (just so you know, if you want to buy every single hero in game you have to pay a total of 200-300 dollars which is 10x of the old price for hon.)

You realize this is what LoL does right? 10 champions rotate every week and the IP cost of the champs range from 450 to 6300, and you can "cheapen" the IP costs by buying the champions with RL money. Whether you want to agree with me or not, making HoN free and implementing a few tidbits from LoL is the best move S2 could have done as the saving grace.

Also, you need to stop stating your opinions as fact lol

You realize this is what LoL does right? 10 champions rotate every week and the IP cost of the champs range from 450 to 6300, and you can "cheapen" the IP costs by buying the champions with RL money. Whether you want to agree with me or not, making HoN free and implementing a few tidbits from LoL is the best move S2 could have done as the saving grace.

Also, you need to stop stating your opinions as fact lol

They are not just opinions, its pure facts. In hon you cant pick a hero like blood hunter and support with it, the pick will be a TOTAL WASTE. Do you know how many support heroes there is to pick between the 15 heroes this week? ONE. Picks in hon matters way more than picks in LoL, its not like we can have duplicated heroes in every single game.
This system does not work in hon because there be a time where people will get annoyed by this system when they have to pay 300 dollars to get the full pack. Not only that, they are only allowed to play in ALL PICK which measn they are missing out on 4 awesome modes(sd, bd, bp & ar) When the hell was the last time you tried hon? Did you even login after these changes? If someone from dota wants to play hon and start to play competitive and the fact that he needs to choose either pay 300 dollars for everything in game or play 500 hours, what would you pick? I personally paid 30 dollars for the game I got unlimited access to EVERYTHING in the entire game. Sure they want to make money, but this s2 is not the way to do it, not in hon or dota.

And also let me point out that s2 told us 100000 times that the shop would not give advantages to other players but with this patch you can buy the new heroes 1 month before release.

Try the game before saying my "opinions" are not facts or just leave this thread for good. The only reason why they made it free to play is because s2 is afraid of dota 2 to make their game unpopular and I will say it again, this change WILL NOT bring new players (good players) because this is not pineappleing league of laughless.

My problem with it is about the same as Even's.
Certain heroes in HoN just don't have a good synergy in the current meta-game. A hero like scout is almost always laughed at because even if he has potential to be one of the hardest carries in the game getting there is impossible.
And some heroes in HoN have a really high skill-cap which makes this system extremely garbage, it'd be impossible for me to play my role in HoN if i had to make a new account now. (I play supports/Initiators)

New players wont be able to try out the meta-game so they'll get roflstomped easily in queue if they queue in AP and for example end up against a clan of 5 people that all have Legacy accounts.

My problem with it is about the same as Even's.
Certain heroes in HoN just don't have a good synergy in the current meta-game. A hero like scout is almost always laughed at because even if he has potential to be one of the hardest carries in the game getting there is impossible.
And some heroes in HoN have a really high skill-cap which makes this system extremely garbage, it'd be impossible for me to play my role in HoN if i had to make a new account now. (I play supports/Initiators)

New players wont be able to try out the meta-game so they'll get roflstomped easily in queue if they queue in AP and for example end up against a clan of 5 people that all have Legacy accounts.

Either your logic is way more awful than you think or you don't understand what a meta-game is.

Try the game before saying my "opinions" are not facts or just leave this thread for good. The only reason why they made it free to play is because s2 is afraid of dota 2 to make their game unpopular and I will say it again, this change WILL NOT bring new players (good players) because this is not pineappleing league of laughless.

I'll say it again, your opinions are NOT fact. Just because you deem this as a terrible move by S2 doesn't mean everyone assumes the same stature as you claim to believe. You may believe the system doesn't work for HoN, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who believe the system DOES work.

I'll say it again, your opinions are NOT fact. Just because you deem this as a terrible move by S2 doesn't mean everyone assumes the same stature as you claim to believe. You may believe the system doesn't work for HoN, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who believe the system DOES work.

I give up trying to convince you that its not gonna work, because clearly you're nothing but a league of legends player who hate hon like rest of southperry. Im adding you on my ignore list for good now.

Either your logic is way more awful than you think or you don't understand what a meta-game is.

I do know what a meta-game is.
Myrmidon is meta, magmus is meta, slither is meta and CD is meta too.(I didnt watch HoN streams for a while so the meta might have switched slightly.)
Meta is what people do right now, what's seen as good right now, it's the kind of strategy that most people will use. Like in SC2 Ling+baneling+muta used to be extremely meta against terran.

And how is my logic awful? Some heroes don't work with the current meta-game, a good example of that is Nighthound and Scout.
And HoN is very synergy depending, some heroes just don't work on the same lanes without being extremely weak compared to what's standard. Myrmidon+behemoth is some of the most standard there is though one or the other is mostly banned.

And if as Even said, there are 15 heroes and only 1 support, one team will be fucked and if it's AP the other team can pick anything they'll automatically have so big an edge it's amazing. They can pick counter picks, the enemy can't.

I give up trying to convince you that its not gonna work, because clearly you're nothing but a league of legends player who hate hon like rest of southperry. Im adding you on my ignore list for good now.

If it doesn't work in HoN why does it work in League of Legends?

=D

If it doesn't work in HoN why does it work in League of Legends?

=D

They're not the same game. Watch a competitive DotA replay some time. All-pick mode is a joke.

Then again, arguing for the other side, if you actually want to play mid-high level games, you should probably buy the game instead of being a F2Per.

If it doesn't work in HoN why does it work in League of Legends?

=D

Because its not the same game, I never looked at LoL as a moba game, even tho it is. Its nothing near dota and hon, the only thing they have in common is the fact that you controll one hero. In LoL you can have duplicated heroes in all modes while in dota and hon you have to pick a certain mode to get that but its not used competitively. If the picking pool becomes minimal for a competitive player and the enemy knows this, they can just ban the heroes hes really good with and he have to pick a hero that the player is only decent with. For example [MSI]N0tail plays a really good pollywog priest (rhasta) but if the enemy bans that hero he will be forced to play something that hes decent with instead for example tundra (beastmaster).

If you played dota you know what Im talking about because how would you react if you couldnt pick slardar to counterpick stealth assassin? Or witch doctor to counter pick pudge?

If you really want to understand how important picking in hon is then I recommend you to watch this video http://www.own3d.tv/video/156362/_855_-_...SI_Fly_1_2

Because its not the same game, I never looked at LoL as a moba game, even tho it is. Its nothing near dota and hon, the only thing they have in common is the fact that you controll one hero. In LoL you can have duplicated heroes in all modes while in dota and hon you have to pick a certain mode to get that but its not used competitively. If the picking pool becomes minimal for a competitive player and the enemy knows this, they can just ban the heroes hes really good with and he have to pick a hero that the player is only decent with. For example [MSI]N0tail plays a really good pollywog priest (rhasta) but if the enemy bans that hero he will be forced to play something that hes decent with instead for example tundra (beastmaster).

If you played dota you know what Im talking about because how would you react if you couldnt pick slardar to counterpick stealth assassin? Or witch doctor to counter pick pudge?

If you really want to understand how important picking in hon is then I recommend you to watch this video http://www.own3d.tv/video/156362/_855_-_...SI_Fly_1_2

actually there is no all pick in ranked games in league of legends. it's bans + draft mode. it's just that you all don't pick at the same time and you have to lock in before anyone else can choose.

however, i agree that team composition is more important in hon than it is in lol. but team composition is still pretty damn important in lol. you can't just choose willy nilly and expect to win more than half your games. i played a rank game where we had a balanced team comp and the other team only had late game attack and mage heroes - no tanks or supports at all. we roflstomped them, it wasn't even close. they were forced to concede right at 20 minutes. then just today was the same situation where we had a balanced team comp, but this time the other team had 3 supports and 2 mages. we beat them pretty handily in every team fight because they didn't have enough cc or damage. all they had was sustain, which doesn't help when you have 2 mages on your team as the only source of damage.

In LoL you can have duplicated heroes in all modes

Again with this? We already said that you can't have duplicate champions in RANKED, which is the same "game mode" as DotA and HoN, and you tell ME I don't know what I'm talking about...the irony is strong in this one.

I give up trying to convince you that its not gonna work, because clearly you're nothing but a league of legends player who hate hon like rest of southperry. Im adding you on my ignore list for good now.

Are you THIS ignorant that you can't accept the fact that your opinion is NOT fact and isn't the "Word of Law"? All I did was disagree with your opinion and you're lashing at my throat for no reason at all. Sounds like the typical HoN player to me.

But yeah, I totally hate HoN, that's why I used to play DotA back in the day before I discovered LoL and am anxiously awaiting for DotA 2. DotA and HoN are totally not alike whatsoever. Nuh-uh.

I do know what a meta-game is.
Myrmidon is meta, magmus is meta, slither is meta and CD is meta too.(I didnt watch HoN streams for a while so the meta might have switched slightly.)
Meta is what people do right now, what's seen as good right now, it's the kind of strategy that most people will use. Like in SC2 Ling+baneling+muta used to be extremely meta against terran.

And how is my logic awful? Some heroes don't work with the current meta-game, a good example of that is Nighthound and Scout.
And HoN is very synergy depending, some heroes just don't work on the same lanes without being extremely weak compared to what's standard. Myrmidon+behemoth is some of the most standard there is though one or the other is mostly banned.

And if as Even said, there are 15 heroes and only 1 support, one team will be pineappleed and if it's AP the other team can pick anything they'll automatically have so big an edge it's amazing. They can pick counter picks, the enemy can't.

Literally facepalmed.

I'll enlighten you when I have more time.

*Points to 300 page LoL thread*

This is the HoN thread.

HoN is waste of time. They just copy dota and make you pay 10 bucks for it. I rather play on the WC3 engine than the HoN engine. Dota2 is going to lower the population of both LoL and HoN

WC3 still costs money iirc. I guess it's not too difficult to do the forbidden ritual at this point though.

Yes sure its free to play I got that point ages ago but to me its not. If I need to play forever or pay for the game to access new content its the same thing as buying the upgrade for WoW. Out of what I can understand buying a champion from just playing the game takes around 15 matches. Now one match takes around what 30 min to 90 min? 60 min on avg multiplied with 15 is 15 WHOLE HOURS. In hon you pay 20(10) dollars and you got everything. Dont tell me you cant find a job and make 20 dollars in 15 hours because if you think that LoL is free open your eyes bro, its not in the big picture.

To each his own. LoL has been good to me and my cheap bastard ways. And before you tell me to get a job, I paid the entirety of my desktop, which would normally cost $600, but got it for $450 due to connections and frugality. The rest of my income goes into paying for my university tuition of over 10k per semester before scholarships, and other bills.

[SPOILER=Large discussion about LoL's IP system]From my experience, matches can take anywhere between 17 minutes to 78 minutes. Average match in solo queue conditions (derp) lasts about 35 minutes. Average match in premades lasts about 43 minutes.

According to the lead design director Zileas, average match time is about 38 minutes. And according to various other sources across time, matches have lasted anywhere between below the minimum time hardcap of 11 minutes (those games are considered void) to 168 minutes (wtp!?). Surrender time is 20 minutes (used to be 25), and it is possible for a decked out carry to push down two towers, the Inhibitor (Barracks), the two Nexus towers, and the Nexus when the other team wipes out nearly simultaneously beyond 60 minutes, due to 70+ second respawn timers. A team of three champions where 50% of their spec consists of auto-attack DPS WILL push down an entire lane and defeat you in the previously mentioned conditions.

Additional considerations include the fact that IP rewards scale with time, including champion selection. The incentive to win and not drag out a game exists however, in that you get less IP per minute the longer you are in a match (caps at 55 minutes for non-ranked games). This manifests itself as a flat IP bonus for either winning or losing the game Every 22 hours, you are eligible to win the "First Win of the Day" bonus, which is a flat 150 IP, no matter what the conditions are, as long as you win and it is not a custom game. The timer starts whenever you earn this bonus.

Last but not least, someone a month ago did an analysis on how you can become competitive in LoL with a cheap, cheap budget. Buy out all the 450 and 1350 IP champions, and you have yourself a high elo roster of champions already. Runes are actually by far the most expensive part of it unfortunately, but even then, it's all obtainable by the time you hit level 30. If you want to achieve tournament-level play however, you'll have to have played over 2000 games, and by then, you'll probably have a good selection of champions available to you due to IP alone.

I do know what a meta-game is.

Me thinks you're not quite on the right page.

In LoL you can have duplicated heroes in all modes

Someone is misinformed, as was already pointed out.

To each his own. LoL has been good to me and my cheap bastard ways. And before you tell me to get a job, I paid the entirety of my desktop, which would normally cost $600, but got it for $450 due to connections and frugality. The rest of my income goes into paying for my university tuition of over 10k per semester before scholarships, and other bills.

Why would you go back to something I wrote 16 days ago when I already got corrected on it? And yes Im sorry but I did know that you cant pick duplicated champions in all modes. However out of what I know even spellcasters in LoL can be built like carries over dealing a ton of burst dmg, in hon we only have one hero for that (Zeus) while the other doesnt scale that good to lategame, but hes fairly squishy and easy to gank early on which makes it balanced. Since heroes in hon have a certain limit of potential the picking is way more important like I stated before, pharaoh (clockwerk goblin) beats soul stealer (nevermore) anyday if the player is equal skill based.

But can this thread stop being LoL vs HoN thread? If you LoL guys really want to bash hon, do it somewhere els because have you seen me go into LoL thread and say: Why play LoL when HoN is better?