Elemental Weapons Bonuses Return

Elestaves were created before there were any non-AM stave wielders by JMS, not KMS, so trying to relate them to the whole story when that story was being made up by an entirely different group of people who had details the original authors had no way to know about is silly.

I understand the premise you are trying to make. But remember that this premise goes both ways. So you can't prove to me that the original 'authors' intended the Elestaves were intended only for A/M's and not allowed to be used by any future stave wielding classes.

Btw, I don't didn't mention anything about KMS.

Elestaves were created before there were any non-AM stave wielders by JMS, not KMS, so trying to relate them to the whole story when that story was being made up by an entirely different group of people who had details the original authors had no way to know about is silly.

I understand the premise you are trying to make. But remember that this premise goes both ways. So you can't prove to me that the original 'authors' intended the Elestaves to be used by only for A/M's and not used by any future stave wielding classes.

Btw, I don't didn't mention anything about KMS.

I was correct on the outcome of this discussion and the explanations that would be used as evidence. Nothing new, it is done, lest effektian stubbornness continue. Just one more assumption...

Let us only hope they work. End.

Oh wow...what's going on here?

Triple post...DELETE.

How embarrassing....DELETE.

I was correct on the outcome of this discussion and the explanations that would be used as evidence. Nothing new, it is done, lest effektian stubbornness continue. Just one more assumption...

Let us only hope they work. End.

I have no idea what you're trying to say lol. Nevertheless, I enjoyed talking with you, I like maple talk :]

I was correct on the outcome of this discussion and the explanations that would be used as evidence. Nothing new, it is done, lest effektian stubbornness continue. Just one more assumption...

Let us only hope they work. End.

I have no idea what you're trying to say lol. Nevertheless, I enjoyed talking with you, I like maple talk :]

I understand the premise you are trying to make. But remember that this premise goes both ways. So you can't prove to me that the original 'authors' intended the Elestaves to be used by only for A/M's and not used by any future stave wielding classes.

Btw, I don't didn't mention anything about KMS.

Elemental Wands & Staves came from JMS.
Battle Mages came from KMS.
You can not relate the two and declare them as having ever been intended to interoperate. They were completely separate concepts.
I can prove to you the original authors only intended Elestaves to work for AM's because AMs were the only thing the original authors knew and they specifically added penalties to prevent the only other magic wielding class at the time, bishops, from using them.

Your argument isn't even chicken & egg, it's avocado and aardvark. They were created for the classes that existed at the time they were created. Period.
Unless you have specific proof to the contrary no one has to prove that they didn't have exceptional psychic powers that foresaw the battlemage years before Aran, Evan or even Cygnus existed to hint at the possibility of new classes.

Elemental Wands & Staves came from JMS.
Battle Mages came from KMS.
You can not relate the two and declare them as having ever been intended to interoperate. They were completely separate concepts.
I can prove to you the original authors only intended Elestaves to work for AM's because AMs were the only thing the original authors knew and they specifically added penalties to prevent the only other magic wielding class at the time, bishops, from using them.

Your argument isn't even chicken & egg, it's avocado and aardvark. They were created for the classes that existed at the time they were created. Period.
Unless you have specific proof to the contrary no one has to prove that they didn't have exceptional psychic powers that foresaw the battlemage years before Aran, Evan or even Cygnus existed to hint at the possibility of new classes.

THIS Estaffs were never made to make AMs the BEST class in DPS, but to turn them from a laughable excuse of a class into something more like a brute hitting the dmg cap to make it seem as if they were useful

THIS Estaffs were never made to make AMs the BEST class in DPS, but to turn them from a laughable excuse of a class into something more like a brute hitting the dmg cap to make it seem as if they were useful

And this is relevant to the discussion is how?
AM's are not the best in DPS, they wouldn't be even if they still had the full 125% boost so you appear to just be posting randomly here for the thrill of seeing your own name.

And this is relevant to the discussion is how?
AM's are not the best in DPS, they wouldn't be even if they still had the full 125% boost so you appear to just be posting randomly here for the thrill of seeing your own name.

Was using the brute example when the dmg cap was 100k

I was actually hoping that I made it apparent that I understood that most A/M's skills do not use the fast speed from the Staff. But like you said, explosion still does factor the speed into account. This is why I emphasized over and over again (and used normal attack as an example because I knew that the fast weapon speed did not affect most A/M skills) that no matter how minute the DPM change would be from the fast speed of elestaves, that it still affects them. I am not comparing BaM's and AM's. You still fail to see my motives. I am not arguing for any one side.

I am just asking that people change their rhetoric when discussing such topics.

I'm pretty sure that elestaves being fast was not intended only for AM's; like you said, most of their skills are unaffected by the weapon speed. So why have a fast staff for classes that don't take advantage of it. If this was really intended only for AM's, Nexon would have created a restriction for BaM's from using it. But we are a mage class after all, and not allowing us to equip a staff is ridiculous.

OP or not, each class serve different purposes. There are attackers, and there are support classes. What purpose BaM's serve is a different issue so let's not delve into that. DPM is not the only factor as to deciding if classes are balanced or not.

Doesn't fast works on CL too?
I can't remember though.

Was using the brute example when the dmg cap was 100k

Even then they weren't best DPS because they could only hit max with their ultimates which were once every 3 seconds at best and used massive MP to do it.
100K every 3 seconds was far from "best" so you're still moot and still off topic.

Even then they weren't best DPS because they could only hit max with their ultimates which were once every 3 seconds at best and used massive MP to do it.
100K every 3 seconds was far from "best" so you're still moot and still off topic.

I'm using it as the reason Eles were made....I KNOW its off topic, but covering every base so people who didn't play until bb or quit for several years know why the exsist

I'm still trying to understand how E-weapon would work after this patch (Hime confused the hell out of everyone):

So for instance if an F/P mage does 100K damage currently with paralyze against a neutral monster with an E-wand 6, with this new change, they'll be doing 110k instead? Just throwing hypothetical numbers out there, but is that how it works?

Question 2: Do the new bonuses now effect DoT (From a post one basil it said that ele comp damage would not be effected by bonuses, but what about, say, it's DoT)?

Question 3: So if a Bishop does 100K with Angel Ray on a neutral monster, due to this new restriction, they'd be doing 75K instead?

Question 4: What about Elemental Decrease? If I do 150K damage on a poison-weak monster with ele wand 6. Then say I use Elemental Decrease. That damage would now be 110K (because of the bonus), not 100k right?

-Just things which need to be clarified. Thanks for answering to whoever does

Having seen my damage, I'm happy with this.

I'm still trying to understand how E-weapon would work after this patch (Hime confused the hell out of everyone):

So for instance if an F/P mage does 100K damage currently with paralyze against a neutral monster with an E-wand 6, with this new change, they'll be doing 110k instead? Just throwing hypothetical numbers out there, but is that how it works?

Question 2: Do the new bonuses now effect DoT (From a post one basil it said that ele comp damage would not be effected by bonuses, but what about, say, it's DoT)?

Question 3: So if a Bishop does 100K with Angel Ray on a neutral monster, due to this new restriction, they'd be doing 75K instead?

Question 4: What about Elemental Decrease? If I do 150K damage on a poison-weak monster with ele wand 6. Then say I use Elemental Decrease. That damage would now be 110K (because of the bonus), not 100k right?

-Just things which need to be clarified. Thanks for answering to whoever does

1) yes
2) no
3) yes
4) Ele reset is applied after damage is calced. EWand bonuses apply then the ele decrease makes the whole thing neutral after.

1) yes
2) no
3) yes
4) Ele reset is applied after damage is calced. EWand bonuses apply then the ele decrease makes the whole thing neutral after.

Thank you. I gather the answer to 4 is 110k then if ele decrease is applied after damage is calculated, right?

Elemental Wands & Staves came from JMS.
Battle Mages came from KMS.
You can not relate the two and declare them as having ever been intended to interoperate. They were completely separate concepts.
I can prove to you the original authors only intended Elestaves to work for AM's because AMs were the only thing the original authors knew and they specifically added penalties to prevent the only other magic wielding class at the time, bishops, from using them.

Your argument isn't even chicken & egg, it's avocado and aardvark. They were created for the classes that existed at the time they were created. Period.
Unless you have specific proof to the contrary no one has to prove that they didn't have exceptional psychic powers that foresaw the battlemage years before Aran, Evan or even Cygnus existed to hint at the possibility of new classes.

I never said they were intended to interoperate. Battle Mages using Elestaves was being complained about. You were the one that brought up the discussion of elestaves being intended only for A/M's, which you still can't prove. All you did was deduce and infer that Elestaves was meant solely for A/M's because they were the only elemental stave classes available at the time. Deduction is not always 100% true.

Can you read the creator's minds, are you a psychic? It doesn't matter if they were psychics or not, it doesn't take a genius to assume the possibility of new classes in the future. Any good inventor knows that the future holds progress and inventions will build upon each other. If they truly intended it ONLY for A/M's, at least JMS would have prevented Bishops from wielding them. The penalties mind you were due to the very nature and description of the staves.

The burden of proof is on you because you are asserting that JMS intended elestaves only for A/M's.