Thrust.

Inferno is a half-neutral elemental attack. Half of the damage you do is neutral, half is fire-based.

Oh, and level 28 is the strongest Inferno gets on fire-resistant mobs. But who gives a pineapple how much damage it does on fire-resistant mobs? Either give Arrow Bomb a few taps or use another skill. The only fire-resistant mob I remember training on or really having to attack much at all after hitting 3rd job is Gobies.

And I know when MB helps out. Aren't you the anti-MB person?

I'm not the anti-MB person, I'm the "if I walk back half a step I won't have to deal with minimum range and I want 99% stun rate on my Hawk and I have no other skills to take points out of, having already maxed every skill but MB, Thrust, and Hawk by early 11x" person.

Still don't understand how MB shoots fast with Hurricane. I get multiple MB activations in a row after Hurricane stops shooting, but they're always at normal attack speed. As in, I basically begin to shoot MB after MB into the monster before I decide to just use normal attacks.

Yeah, Inferno and Blizzard only have half element. Cantaloupe if you ask me, all the other elemental attacks people get are full element except composition, which is half of two. Ours are the only ones that have partial neutral.

Anyway, the important part is not that MB works with Hurricane, it's that you don't have to lift your finger from the key 90% of the time if you happen to get a minimum range problem on your hands.

Decided I was going for 10 thrust then, After reading these posts why get 20? waste of 10 SP Lol.. and I'll max everything else that's REALLY needed and the rest to inferno.


I had another question though. Since I'm going low str. I'm really confused as to where to stop. I'm currently at 45 base and I use a level 43 bow I have not spent time to think out which equips I'm getting for the long run which give STR. (Z-helm, Overalls). I was wondering what's a good str base to stop at I want to use atleast a metus.

AR is the only skill Bowmasters get that has no minimum range. You'd have to be absolutely insane to skip it. Even in 4th job there are instances where you'll be in a crowd for a while, you know you'll be in a crowd for a while, and you still need to do something about it.

Example: I don't think it would have been possible to solo Zakum without AR. I have an NL friend that actually had to equip a Dagger for a while while he solo'd just to get rid of the summons. It's also important in places such as HT, when a black Wryvern is coming from below you and it needs to be dead. Sure the Bishops are supposed to Genesis when they see Wryverns, but no one's perfect.

I was mostly speaking from time spent on a Sniper, Arrow Eruption is annoying because it has a different range than every other skill you use, I found it easier to just keep off mobs than to rely on Eruption when I wanted to kill them.

I wouldn't be just straight up getting 0 AR, I think even maxing everything except Thrust there's room for at least 21 points in AR. At that point it's still 90% as strong as lv.28 (even closer including crit/SE since afaik they're independent of base damage), so enough to deal with Zakum summons hopefully.

Still don't understand how MB shoots fast with Hurricane. I get multiple MB activations in a row after Hurricane stops shooting, but they're always at normal attack speed. As in, I basically begin to shoot MB after MB into the monster before I decide to just use normal attacks.

when you're hurricaning *made up word* and monster spawns/comes close and mb activates, it would shoot at the rate of o.....o..... and hurricane would go something like o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o....o....o.o.o.o.o. *o is hit ... is the time between hits*

but if you just shoot MB alone by purposefully walking close to a monster, it does something like o.........o.........o

Decided I was going for 10 thrust then, After reading these posts why get 20? waste of 10 SP Lol.. and I'll max everything else that's REALLY needed and the rest to inferno.


I had another question though. Since I'm going low str. I'm really confused as to where to stop. I'm currently at 45 base and I use a level 43 bow I have not spent time to think out which equips I'm getting for the long run which give STR. (Z-helm, Overalls). I was wondering what's a good str base to stop at I want to use atleast a metus.

My STR equips are as follows:
15 ZHelm
10 PAC
6 Overall
3 BH Greaves
5 Deputy Star

I have +39 STR from my equips with a STR pac and no HT Pendant. With a HT pendant + egg, that number would be +56. Discounting the 3 from the BH Greaves and 2 more from the overall (I guess Blue Arzunas are more common to use?), that's an estimated +51 STR you can eventually obtain. I would suggest raising your base STR to a level where, given the proper equips, you can equip a Nisrock, but no more. If you end up with a Metus, switch to a dex PAC. Pretty simple. I don't suggest raising STR enough for a Dragon Shiner or a Timeless, you can always switch to a STR-scrolled overall for that. 105-51 is 54. That means it's safe to keep your base STR at any number above 54, but the lower, the better. Mine's at 61.

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i actually was a bit bothered by that, felix, and came off harsher than i meant to as well, sorry for that o.0

and watching kaida train actually made me switch how i train at the bottom of newts, lol. i stand where she does, but hit three of the four newts (35k dps only goes so far...) in about another six levels i should be able to kill all four.


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Yeah, Inferno and Blizzard only have half element. Cantaloupe if you ask me, all the other elemental attacks people get are full element except composition, which is half of two. Ours are the only ones that have partial neutral.

Anyway, the important part is not that MB works with Hurricane, it's that you don't have to lift your finger from the key 90% of the time if you happen to get a minimum range problem on your hands.

Wait a second, are they partially neutral, as in neutral magic, or are they partially P element (Physical)? If it's partially physical then this might just have a use in fighting Pink Bean.

Wait a second, are they partially neutral, as in neutral magic, or are they partially P element (Physical)? If it's partially physical then this might just have a use in fighting Pink Bean.

partially neutral physical? This is the way I think of it:

Every attack is either magical or physical.

Every attack can also be aligned to a certain element, or a combination of elements. The elements are fire, ice, lightning, poison, holy, and neutral.

When an attack is composed of two elements, damage is calculated in two steps. The result is a weighted average of the damage from each element.

Elemental effectiveness is calculated as a 150% multiplier, elemental resistance is calculated as a 50% multiplier. Monsters never resist holy, and are never resistant or weak to neutral.

Ex: Inferno is a physical attack. It is composed of the neutral and fire elements. At lower levels, it leans toward the neutral element, and when maxed, the two elements are equal.

Monsters never resist holy, and are never resistant or weak to neutral.

 Taken from StrategyWiki

Resistant to Holy

* Trixter (Level 23)
* Sentinel (Level 30)
* Boogie (Level 35)
* Star Pixie (Level 35)
* King Slime (Level 40)
* Dark Eye from Another Dimension (Level 43)
* Chief Gray (Level 49)
* Luster Pixie (Level 52)
* Alishar (Level 56)
* Ghost Pixie (Level 65)
* Pachu (Level 66)
* Puppet Golem (Level 67)
* Punco (Level 67)
* Gargoyle (Level 68)
* Cuzco (Level 69)
* Opachu (Level 70)
* Lord Pirate (Level 73)
* Papa Pixie (Level 74)
* Birk (Level 85)
* Dual Birk (Level 88)
* Lion Statue A (Level 99)
* Lion Statue B (Level 99)
* Knight Statue A (Level 100)
* Knight Statue B (Level 100)
* Ergoth (Level 115)

Also, Pink Bean is resistant to Physical.

I've never heard of this fire/neutral thing Inferno has going on. Every bit of math I've seen done on the subject has treated Inferno just like any other single-element attack in the game; that is, 150% damage on weak enemies and 50% damage on strong enemies. Unless you can prove your theory, I see no reason to believe otherwise.

It's more recent knowledge, much like the 16 Inferno range increase.

Myst, perhaps you could go use Inferno on some Fire-Strong monsters, and get a Screenshot of hitting over 1/2 your Max?

That should prove it to Kaida. =P

It's more recent knowledge, much like the 16 Inferno range increase.

Myst, perhaps you could go use Inferno on some Fire-Strong monsters, and get a Screenshot of hitting over 1/2 your Max?

That should prove it to Kaida. =P

Sure thing, I'll get on it in an hour. Gen Chem is boring D:

^Oh, and I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote that monsters were never res to Holy.

This knowledge isn't even recent, we've known about Inferno and Blizz being half-elemental for months now.

apparently... from elemental damages, the elemental data is always halved... it DOES say +50 elemental, but it's in fact +25... same applies to mages and WKs... i think it was WK that was +100, but their damage is only 1.5x or something like that...

i don't know about the neutral/elemental part tho

apparently... from elemental damages, the elemental data is always halved... it DOES say +50 elemental, but it's in fact +25... same applies to mages and WKs... i think it was WK that was +100, but their damage is only 1.5x or something like that...

Yes, at maxed level WK charges are all +100 "z" argument (elemental advantage), which translates to 150% on weak monsters, 50% on resistant.


It's possible that that means "percentage elemental" but I dunno why they would do that :f6: (ie. 50% elemental = half the 50% bonus, for 125% - 100% elemental = 50% bonus)

Yes, at maxed level WK charges are all +100 "z" argument (elemental advantage), which translates to 150% on weak monsters, 50% on resistant.


It's possible that that means "percentage elemental" but I dunno why they would do that :f6: (ie. 50% elemental = half the 50% bonus, for 125% - 100% elemental = 50% bonus)

I should probably look into this some on my own, but perhaps it could be a 100 range off the normal damage (IE 50% to 150% would be 100% range) though It's just a guess.

I've never heard of double elemental skills. I know that for elemental PHYSICAL skills, the resistance/weakness multiplier doesn't become 0.5/1.5 until max. Maybe that's the reason why the claim for Inferno being fire/neutral?

It's definitely true. I knew about it months ago, but I never actually made a thread on SW or anything explaining why. I just leaked the fact here and there, and everyone who heard about it realized it made sense and accepted it as truth.

 Long Anecdote

I remember a particular sniper on SW that was experimenting with an early Blizzard build to train on ice-weak mobs. He noticed that Blizzard didn't get full element advantage, but it wasn't completely neutral either. He posted his numbers, and it showed him actually getting a 23-26% increase in damage.

And then there was this thread about Inferno vs Arrow Bomb+FA at fire-resistant mobs. Upon testing on Pinbooms, they found Inferno's fire-resist damage to be 75%. Reading this, I thought it a bit odd. Why would Inferno have 75% disadvantage but 150% advantage? It didn't make much sense, until I remembered the odd results from the Blizzard build. It was then that it became apparent to me that the element attributes were halved.

The skill data supported that theory, too. The element attribute for WK charges at max level is either 1 or 100 (I can't remember at this moment) which means it's 100% of its respective element. Maxed Fire Charge is 100% fire. Thunder Charge is 100% lightning.

The thing with Inferno is that its element value never reaches 1 (or 100). At max level, it's 0.5 (or 50), which means it's only 50% fire attribute. Half-fire, half-neutral.

Isaac- I'm not sure about the distinctions between physical and magic-neutral, so I'm not sure what the other 50% is. But I'd assume it's just what an archer's default attack is, since it's not defined in the skill.

Isaac- I'm not sure about the distinctions between physical and magic-neutral, so I'm not sure what the other 50% is. But I'd assume it's just what an archer's default attack is, since it's not defined in the skill.

I suppose we'll find that out when someone attacks a physical resistant monster with one of the physical+elemental skills. If it's still considered 100% physical regardless of elements then maybe the distinction between "weak elemental" and "half physical half elemental" doesn't make sense.

well a neutral magic would be magic claw, a element magic is any 2nd job mage attacking skill, elemental physical is WK charge, partial magic is compo, and partial physical is inferno/blizz?

I suppose we'll find that out when someone attacks a physical resistant monster with one of the physical+elemental skills. If it's still considered 100% physical regardless of elements then maybe the distinction between "weak elemental" and "half physical half elemental" doesn't make sense.

It does 1 damage. Inferno does 1 damage to Bone Fish when they use weapon cancel. "Elemental" does not imply magical. Physical/magical and elements are completely separate of each other. Bowmasters possess no skills other than Three Snails that do any sort of magical damage.

F/P Compo and I/L compo are composite magical attacks of two elements.

Inferno/Blizzard are composite physical attacks of two elements. Just think of neutral as an element without weaknesses/resistances.