TO Mods: Please delete this thread.

Not build HP first? Are you mad? Sorry, but the increase of 20% of your current HP of your current HP makes more sense. Good job recognizing that Zero.

When the monsters you're going to kill in first job barely hit anything and worrying about pots is non-existent? Increasing your damaging skills is more important.

And as I said things can be altered at any time... it's just a guide and you don't have to follow it like a bible. Besides... at least I developed and posted a guide.

It's still open to criticism though.

Yes, but HP should always be developed first hand for it's potential effects later on. Besides, most monsters during the build time for HP Increase are weak enough to kill with normal attacks.

Think of what adding 20% to your Max HP does when you level up, and think of that each and every time you level up.

And to the guy who said a pre-BB Paladin has no idea of how to handle a post-BB guide... read this disclaimer again please. It's experimental and not yet tested. Besides, shouldn't a Paladin know best what would work pre or post Big Bang if that's the primary class they are working on before and after?

Yes, but HP should always be developed first hand for it's potential effects later on.

Not post-BB. You get the same amount of HP bonus if you max it as early as 1st job or as late as 4th job. It increases your HP right when you put points into it. How do you think high level warriors won't get screwed over when this update comes?

Yes, but HP should always be developed first hand for it's potential effects later on. Besides, most monsters during the build time for HP Increase are weak enough to kill with normal attacks.

Think of what adding 20% to your Max HP does when you level up, and think of that each and every time you level up.

And to the guy who said a pre-BB Paladin has no idea of how to handle a post-BB guide... read this disclaimer again please. It's experimental and not yet tested. Besides, shouldn't a Paladin know best what would work pre or post Big Bang if that's the primary class they are working on before and after?

No, a Paladin who hasn't done any research until post-BB skills would be worse than someone who's never played a Paladin but does understand post-BB skills when it comes to making a guide, because your pre-BB experiences lead you to make prejudiced skill decisions that are actually pretty dumb, like not getting Shield Mastery or maxing HP Boost first.

Then by all means go ahead and make your own post-BB Paladin, and not a guide, I mean the real deal, make a character and then test your guide against it.

I know what I'm talking about here and would have a better perspective of it.

Also, I would challenge someone to test my build and see how it does, other than myself.

I've never liked shields because one hand weapons have reduced strike ranges. Not cool.

Combat Orders is nice for maxing things out...


HP Boost at level 8 is only +16% hp, I think my base is 12189.


With Combat Boost, all my 1st job skills become maxed. (and yeah there's a glitch, Iron Body is getting +1 level from my reverse gear when I have CO up)
HP Boost at level 10 is +20% hp, so 12189*1.2 = 14626 as expected.

 Defense Comparison, 1h vs. 2h

It's nice that Shield Mastery works on both w.def and m.def.

Then by all means go ahead and make your own post-BB Paladin, and not a guide, I mean the real deal, make a character and then test your guide against it.

I know what I'm talking about here and would have a better perspective of it.

Also, I would challenge someone to test my build and see how it does, other than myself.

I've never liked shields because one hand weapons have reduced strike ranges. Not cool.

A Paladin who maxes HP Increase at level 13 will have the exact same HP as a Paladin who maxes HP Increase at level 200. So why the pineapple would you max it first?

Slash Blast has just as much initial range as Power Strike. After it hits a monster, a huge range behind it will get hit by the area of effect. I never once used Power Strike in KMS to train. I only used it to see its effect with Final Attack. Ground Smash and Slash Blast are superior to it in every regard for training because if there exists a single monster, then you can either lure it to another group of larger monsters with Slash Blast, or ignore it. The hits to kill monsters was hardly any different with Slash Blast compared to Power Strike either, and maxed Ground Smash does more damage until you max Improved Fundamentals. Improved Fundamentals is pretty useless because rarely end up in situations where you use Power Strike or Slash Blast.

Final Attack sucks with Slash Blast. It spreads 150% damage to six monsters unevenly, regardless of if six monsters exist. It spreads damage the exact same way it does pre-Big Bang. It should never speed up training with Slash Blast because you're still going to need x hits to kill the mob, even if the first monster dies in less than x hits.
Ground Smash almost completely overrides Slash Blast and Power Strike in utility at level 1 because it has range and you can 2HKO monsters for a very long time, even with level 1 Ground Smash unfunded. Ice Charge is completely worthless because no monsters do significant enough damage to warrant the freeze. There are no ice-weak monsters until level 84. Charge Blow has stun so it makes the freeze on Ice Charge worthless as well. There are however fire-weak monsters in 7x that are trainable, though the best options are still neutral.

I know what I'm talking about here and would have a better perspective of it.

It's experimental and not yet tested.

That makes no sense at all.
How can you know what you're talking about, yet you've never tested this build?

Why is ther eonly 1 SP used at level 120 in your build? Did they reduce the SP points received from job advancing post-BB? It used to be 3 SP at level 120.

Combat Orders is nice for maxing things out...

It also means that you'll effectively rely on Combat Orders to get your maximum damage. If you get dispelled, your HP, defense, and above all else, mastery will drop on the spot. You'll have to cast Combat Orders first before casting all other abilities just to get your stats back.

As for the build, there is a lot you should probably consider before throwing out ideas. I wouldn't call this a guide, but a build since it's nothing more than your expected build in which you would ask for criticism rather than suggesting other people what to do (as guides normally do). Most of the people commenting are very right to what they are saying since it is far more benefitial to take certain skills before others. HP max adds 20% HP, it doesn't raise your maximum HP over time what so ever and does not make a big enough difference early on to not choose Power Strike or Slash Blast first.

With the second job, double check your points. If you max everything except Ground Smash, you should only have a level 2 Ground Smash, not 3 (look at level 67).

The third job elements are all choice, which is fair enough. Fire typically has more training areas while ice offers the most potion saving, so you are in no way wrong to pick ice. I would however suggest that you bump Charged Blow a bit earlier for maximum damage. You may also want to consider that it stuns 90% of the time and is spammable. With adding into Ground Smash, most people (myself included) would not do that since it offers no use to max a skill. If you have an issue with not maxing skills (my current Hero is just like that with maximum HP Recovery and near max Endure), then go right ahead. Keep in mind that Defense is much more valued in Big Bang than now. Lastly, Restoration is a pre-requiste for Combat Orders.

Now, I know you plan on 2-handed weapons, so not choosing Guardian is fine. If you don't know, Guardian not only blocks 40% of the time stunning the attacker for 6 seconds, but it also resists status debuffs (such as seal) 30% of the time as well as 30% resistance to all "attribute" attacks (I'm assuming magic, but it could just be a further boost to Achilles). I'm not going to say that the two latter effects work without a shield, but the skill itself does not mention it requires a shield for anything except the blocking. Don't take my word on it. If that is the case though (again, get confirmation), you may want to reconsider. Otherwise, I don't see too much of an issue for the 4th job build itself.

I hope a little constructive criticism helps.

I know at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd job you get 1 extra point for starting out. However 3 for 4th job, I don't recall getting 3. I recall getting 1 for skills, and possibly 5 for stats... I think.

And BTW... what's wrong using Ice to train with since just about everything can be frozen now? It's called effective strategy. Just because you don't have a White Knight or failed to build a good one, doesn't mean you know exactly how a White Knight is supposed to train. And I'll even go as far to state something I've stated elsewhere... White Knight are NOT Crusaders. Fire Charge going up first might seem like a good venture but only if you are fighting monsters you can one hit kill, which usually is never.

Even with Charge Blow now being fully 3rd job level as a usable skill, it still means you don't have a Stun skill for at least a few levels.

There's something called using a strategic advantage. Because Ice can make it where monsters can not fight back, that's not only strategical, it's also a great advantage.

What's worse? A monster being able to siphon of large amounts of HP in a single hit, or a monster who can not fight back?

You use skills to capitalize on training by what they do. Sometimes what you think is stronger, some of the time is not.

It also means that you'll effectively rely on Combat Orders to get your maximum damage. If you get dispelled, your HP, defense, and above all else, mastery will drop on the spot. You'll have to cast Combat Orders first before casting all other abilities just to get your stats back.

Paladins have 8 buffs to keep up anyway.
- Combat Orders
- Booster
- Lightning Charge
- Stance
- Power Guard
- Maple Warrior
- Iron Body
- Second charge (Holy, Fire, or Ice)
Since 4th job skills will always improve when you cast CO, there's no reason not to cast it first. The only ones of these you can skip without affecting damage output are Stance, PG, and Iron Body anyway, so you'll want to cast at least 5 before attacking.

I did suggest in my build to leave the points out of SB (at 15) and PS (at 18) so you can get HP Boost and Iron Body maxed on their own. They're both much more useful after 1st job is finished. You can take a similar approach to 2nd job, skipping Improved Fundamentals in favour of maxing Mastery, FA, etc.

Now, I know you plan on 2-handed weapons, so not choosing Guardian is fine. If you don't know, Guardian not only blocks 40% of the time stunning the attacker for 6 seconds, but it also resists status debuffs (such as seal) 30% of the time as well as 30% resistance to all "attribute" attacks (I'm assuming magic, but it could just be a further boost to Achilles). I'm not going to say that the two latter effects work without a shield, but the skill itself does not mention it requires a shield for anything except the blocking. Don't take my word on it. If that is the case though (again, get confirmation), you may want to reconsider. Otherwise, I don't see too much of an issue for the 4th job build itself.

I hope a little constructive criticism helps.

As far as I can tell the other 30% is like Elemental Resistance, it's either that or all magic attacks (harder to test, my Paladin has a lot of mdef). And no Guardian doesn't work without a shield, nor does Shield Mastery (obv.) Divine Shield does work with 2h weapons.

Lightning Charge isn't always that great... Adding the Lightning Element to any charge can have good, bad, no effect to the main charge you use. Sometimes even Lightning by itself works better than with another skill.

I've been on monsters where using Lightning actually made me do half damage rather that extra damage.

However halo makes a better point... it's a build and yes it is experimental, he does make some better points such as this one... wait and see. However, I'll add this... even from Tespia we don't know exactly what the final product will be. That's why I had HP Increase going up first as always, however do we know for certain, other than a buggy BETA that what we are getting is what we are getting? Here's a question worth asking... if Combat Orders wasn't working right for the BETA could HP Increase be malfunctioning too?

Lightning Charge isn't always that great... Adding the Lightning Element to any charge can have good, bad, no effect to the main charge you use. Sometimes even Lightning by itself works better than with another skill.

I've been on monsters where using Lightning actually made me do half damage rather that extra damage.

If you're dual charging, Lightning can only have good or no effect on the other charge. The only time it's worse to dual charge is if the monster is Lightning weak & nothing else.

There is no monster where dual charging Lightning can decrease your damage.



HP Boost is working exactly how the description says it does, exactly how it works in KMST, exactly how it works in KMS, exactly how it works in JMST. I don't know why you think it's malfunctioning.

Guess we'll have to wait and see when the finished product arrives. I'm still betting on HP Increase being bugged.

I know at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd job you get 1 extra point for starting out. However 3 for 4th job, I don't recall getting 3. I recall getting 1 for skills, and possibly 5 for stats... I think.

You get 1 SP for advancing in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd jobs and 3 in the 4th job.

And BTW... what's wrong using Ice to train with since just about everything can be frozen now? It's called effective strategy. Just because you don't have a White Knight or failed to build a good one, doesn't mean you know exactly how a White Knight is supposed to train. And I'll even go as far to state something I've stated elsewhere... White Knight are NOT Crusaders.

And this is where I lost attention. I offered a suggestion. No where in my prior post did I state that Ice charge was a bad choice. In fact:

The third job elements are all choice, which is fair enough. Fire typically has more training areas while ice offers the most potion saving, so you are in no way wrong to pick ice.

I'd suggest I nice massage to ease the tension so you can clearly define the line of suggestion and argument. I may play a Hero, but I do keep up with the other classes and knowing how they work.

Guess we'll have to wait and see when the finished product arrives. I'm still betting on HP Increase being bugged.

There is no HP Increase, the skill name is now HP Boost and it boosts your MAX HP, kinda like Hyper Body. There are no longer skills that affect the HP/MP increase you get when you level up. Not for Warriors, not for Brawlers, not for any class.

I've never liked shields because one hand weapons have reduced strike ranges. Not cool.

The following skills have fixed range regardless of what type of weapon you are using:
Ground Smash
Charge Blow
Blast

Unless you plan on using Power Strike or Slash Blast in 4th job I don't see why weapon swing range would matter at all.

There is no HP Increase, the skill name is now HP Boost and it boosts your MAX HP, kinda like Hyper Body. There are no longer skills that affect the HP/MP increase you get when you level up. Not for Warriors, not for Brawlers, not for any class.

Just out of curiousity, do you know if the 20% boost stack with Hyper Body? I remember reading that it does not but I can't be sure. Again, I haven't had the opportunity to test it for myself.

Lightning Charge isn't always that great... Adding the Lightning Element to any charge can have good, bad, no effect to the main charge you use. Sometimes even Lightning by itself works better than with another skill.

I've been on monsters where using Lightning actually made me do half damage rather that extra damage.

However halo makes a better point... it's a build and yes it is experimental, he does make some better points such as this one... wait and see. However, I'll add this... even from Tespia we don't know exactly what the final product will be. That's why I had HP Increase going up first as always, however do we know for certain, other than a buggy BETA that what we are getting is what we are getting? Here's a question worth asking... if Combat Orders wasn't working right for the BETA could HP Increase be malfunctioning too?

There's no way. The skill adds a percentage on the point, it doesn't change the formula. We know it doesn't matter when you add points to it.

Don't post a guide unless you're ready to take criticism and not just respond with "we'll wait and what works." If that were the case, why not just wait until you've tested through all of it yourself?

And Stereo's right about the Combat Orders thing. If you get dispelled, do you keep attacking without booster? No, you recast it. So what does it matter if you save SP by using CO?