HiSTORY HAS BEEN MADE!!!!

I don't care about some kid I'll never meet being saved by this. I'm not getting sick much, I don't really need this. I'd be paying for some other person's benefit. If I don't even support myself, I shouldn't have to help others get support.

Other people support you unconditionally.

Other people support you unconditionally.

They can support themselves as well as me, and they can dump me out on the street if they really wanted to. They may feel like keeping me under their care due to some feeling of obligation, but they certainly aren't forced by anyone into caring for me.

The difference is someone giving a donation to little Suzie, rather than little Suzie's family stealing for the cash.



Before it's brought up:
"What is they didn't support you and just dumped you on the street?"

Oh well, too bad for me then. Guess I'd better stop being a lazy pimento, continue my life on the streets, or just off myself. Or take advantage of the kindness of another person, but that would most likely not be worth it at all since I'd have to work in one way or another for that to happen. It'd probably be more work than just not being lazy and getting a job on my own.

I'm dissapointed. theres no public option. aka theres no socialized healthcare . then again I didn't have high hopes for obama. he's another salesman like reagen .


Edit ----
heres a video I suggest you all watch. [video=youtube;sO6JXVBeBgs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO6JXVBeBgs&feature=sub[/video]

I don't care about some kid I'll never meet being saved by this. I'm not getting sick much, I don't really need this. I'd be paying for some other person's benefit. If I don't even support myself, I shouldn't have to help others get support.

What's that? Little Suzie in Texas needs surgery that her family can't afford? That's nice, but don't make me pay for that shit. I don't even pay for my own health care, and if I had to then I wouldn't. For me it's not worth it, because I rarely get sick with anything other than the cold.

I guess you can say I'm a bit too spoiled by the American "rights for the individual who can afford it" outlook.

Keeping an open-mind and ignoring any kind of negative stigma's attached to his films, I really think you should see Michael Moore's Sicko. It will really make you think about how healthcare is executed in this country as compared to the rest of the developed world. Oh, and Cuba, which also has universal health care.

And @ the bolded section: the only thing that's certain in life is life's uncertainties. That's the reason you're forced to buy auto insurance when applying for a driver's license. So you can't find a virus or a bacterium or some environmental mutagen at fault in a court of a law to get the funds necessary for the damage they cause to you. It's imperative you still have some means of protecting yourself, and if you catch something a lot worse than a cold and need extensive medical treatment while unemployed and uninsured, you can pretty much kiss your life goodbye.

In short, this goes back to the whole controversy over making it a "right to pay for a service." It's the notion of keeping people alive, like Holypie mentioned above. And I don't know about you, but if little Suzie ended up becoming the woman who develops a cure for cancer that cures a form you develop, Spidey, I'm sure you'd be grateful at saving her life earlier.

The only thing that's certain in life is life's uncertainties. That's the reason you're forced to buy auto insurance when applying for a driver's license. So you can't find a virus or a bacterium or some environmental mutagen at fault in a court of a law to get the funds necessary for the damage they cause to you. It's imperative you still have some means of protecting yourself, and if you catch something a lot worse than a cold and need extensive medical treatment while unemployed, you can pretty much kiss your life goodbye.

Funny you mention this 'cause my 21st birthday past last October and I got a letter around June 09 saying my Medi-care was cut. So my Medi-care was actually cut a few months before I turned 21. Since then, I've been living without any health insurance I've picked up a few physical injuries 'cause I like to jump off rooftops, staircases, fences and basically anything higher than 5 feet off the ground. I never went to see the doctor for any of them and I turned out just fine. Point being, insurance as its name suggests, is just insurance. It shouldn't be something that is critically needed.

But I'm not against this health care bill though. There's the downside to it but should I ever get health insurance, I'll know I have a little back up.

Keeping an open-mind and ignoring any kind of negative stigma's attached to his films, I really think you should see Michael Moore's Sicko. It will really make you think about how healthcare is executed in this country as compared to the rest of the developed world. Oh, and Cuba, which also has universal health care.

Might give it a download someday if I'm bored.

And @ the bolded section: the only thing that's certain in life is life's uncertainties. That's the reason you're forced to buy auto insurance when applying for a driver's license. So you can't find a virus or a bacterium or some environmental mutagen at fault in a court of a law to get the funds necessary for the damage they cause to you. It's imperative you still have some means of protecting yourself, and if you catch something a lot worse than a cold and need extensive medical treatment while unemployed and uninsured, you can pretty much kiss your life goodbye.

Whatever happens, happens. The world is overpopulated anyway. I'm actually hoping I die sometime before 50, because I don't want to be an old hag. Electronic sellers give you an option for insurance when you purchase them, but I usually turn those down. Sometimes your electronic does just die on you, but if that happens then I'll deal with it myself. If I got insurance for everything that would cover uncertainties, it would add up to quite a pretty penny.

And I don't know about you, but if little Suzie ended up becoming the woman who develops a cure for cancer that cures a form you develop, Spidey, I'm sure you'd be grateful at saving her life earlier.

The first part implies that you don't know about how I'd feel and you're talking about if you were in my shoes. Unfortunately, I realize that the probability of such a coincidence is pretty low, and if this did happen I wouldn't even know that I helped save her anyway so it'd all be the same to me. I would be taking a double gamble. The first would be the probability that someone who's developing something that important would be in dire need of this health care, because that assumes their family isn't wealthy enough for her to live through whatever she has. The second would be the chances that this person develops the cure for something I might get in the future. Certainly not worth the investment for me. If anything, I find the chances of that happening being much lower than me needing dire medical assistance any time soon.

If I was hit by something, I'd go with the flow. As I said, I'm hoping I die somewhere before 50 anyway. Maybe in my mid 40's or so. That's not to say I plan on committing suicide (I assure you, I've no intention of doing so), but it would be nice if I died of some natural cause around the time where life starts slowing down.

But I'm content with whatever comes my way. The point is that I don't really care about my own health care, so why would I care about funding the health care of complete strangers?

Pennsylvania, my state, is sueing the government.

Pennsylvania, my state, is sueing the government.

We're not Americans if we're not suing someone at least once a month. State officials are not excempt from this unwritten code.

By the way, Khoi, did you speak to my lawyer yet?

We're not Americans if we're not suing someone at least once a month. State officials are not excempt from this unwritten code.

By the way, Khoi, did you speak to my lawyer yet?

http://amerpundit.com/2010/03/22/pennsyl...obamacare/

But I'm content with whatever comes my way. The point is that I don't really care about my own health care, so why would I care about funding the health care of complete strangers?

You make an excellent case, and your points are valid. However most people do not think like you as evidenced by the fact that (A) this bill has passed in the first place, and (B) there are a crapton vehemently opposed, and so it's still a legitimate debate for the nation as a whole. But in your case? I admire your apathy towards death as it gives you a unique courage towards whatever comes at you in life, but I do hope you keep an open mind on things. If people found a way to reverse aging a la telomere expansion, I'm sure we'd like our Spidey to stay around a bit longer .

Electronic sellers give you an option for insurance when you purchase them, but I usually turn those down. Sometimes your electronic does just die on you, but if that happens then I'll deal with it myself. If I got insurance for everything that would cover uncertainties, it would add up to quite a pretty penny.

The flaw in this analogy is manifold - For one your appliance is replaceable, your life, and your health, is not.

If you think the idea of growing old is terrifying, imagine being injured and unable to afford the urgent treatment you need, so it gets delayed and results in complications that leave you quadraplegic for life. People put off health care all the time because they're uninsured. Some get better. Some get worse. Of those that get worse they either live with it, or end up becoming a burden to society anyhow for far longer than it would've cost us to fix them in the first place before things got out of hand.

While everyone should have health insurance, you shouldn't use your health insurance every time you stub a toe. That's a big contributor to our insane health insurance issues in America. It's disturbingly comparable to 90% of the drivers decided they have auto insurance so it's OK to randomly ram other cars out of the way on the highway because the damage will get paid cheaply. Unfortunately this too was an issue the current bill couldn't really regulate because that's a cultural issue. We're too strongly divided into "those who see the doctor too often" and "those who make themselves worse because they won't even seek preventative medicine" and desperately need a happy middle ground for any change to be successful.

The flaw in this analogy is manifold - For one your appliance is replaceable, your life, and your health, is not.

True, but my point was arguing against needing insurance for many other uncertainties in life.

True, but my point was arguing against needing insurance for many other uncertainties in life.

Wasn't really on topic then, was it? :f6:

While it's true you don't need insurance on your shoelaces, affordable health care for everyone is a must for a truly fair and equal society.
This is just a really crappy first step at achieving it by trying to bend a completely unworkable current system into something closer to right.

Wasn't really on topic then, was it? :f6:

While it's true you don't need insurance on your shoelaces, affordable health care for everyone is a must for a truly fair and equal society.
This is just a really crappy first step at achieving it by trying to bend a completely unworkable current system into something closer to right.

Though I completely agree with you and hate to say it, this "really crappy first step" was an absolutely necessary first step. After eight years of conservative politics Americans have forgotton what it's like to change their lives for the betterment of society, and so something that bends the current system on the right path in order to help people see what good sweeping change will do is an appropriate first step. In a land where we're allowed to have our own opinions and thus disagree on every little thing, it's wonderful to see something like this pass in the first place. Thus, again, what we can hope for is that people come to see the real benefits of this legislation and follow it with pushes for more and more reform.

It's a hard battle, of course. One issue I'd like to bring up is that of the perspective of the medical professionals. A friend of mine earlier today quoted a recent poll that claimed 45% of doctors said they would consider quitting their practices if this reform is passed. While the background and execution of the poll are a bit sketchy, and weren't addressed by my friend, she, a Biochem major (previously) interested in a profession in the medical field, stated that there's no "incentive" to work in the medical field now if her salary is decreased yet her college and medical school bills are still high. Though a legitimate point, there are two comments I wish to make (and I'd like to hear what others have to say): (1) if your "incentive" to work in the medical field revolves around money, you shouldn't be working in the field, and (2) it's important to note that health care reform should NOT be the receiver of blame, but the severely flawed education system in the United States. Obama, in his State of the Union, said he will work to place a 10 year cap on student loans, in an effort to reduce the stranglehold they place on college and professional school graduates. In the end, if you want the money to pay for your bills (or in my friend's case, future bills), work on reforming the burden the bills create in the first place rather than deny 32 million people the right to life.

FML. Sure is nice that I'm going to grow up a socialist!

inb4 people taking this too seriously

But really, this is too much. Sure, America gets a bad rap for not having the best health care system in the world. But really, government intervention isn't always the best thing. Over time, if consumers really cared, they'd gradually fix the system. The government doesn't need to raise my taxes so that I can essentially pay for other people. It may sound wrong, but I agree with Spidey. It would be money that I worked for, not some person's that the government decided to give my money to. Let's face it, we're all greedy human beings. No one is perfect. We're not all truly equal. (If you have 20 children for welfare checks, then you are definitely not equal to someone who has worked hard for their money!) The only people that I think deserve assistance are those people that are in situations like these by no fault of their own, but this generally isn't the case. Generally, it is lazy ass people who are just skating through life on their government welfare checks.

The more and more I look into this bill, I'm not enjoying it at all. I don't like the idea of this, it seems like another money making scheme from the insurance companies. It sounds like they're going to take this bill into their own profit now that they have 32 million more customers.

While it's true you don't need insurance on your shoelaces, affordable health care for everyone is a must for a truly fair and equal society.

Pretty sure most Americans aren't exactly aiming for the communist ideal...

(1) if your "incentive" to work in the medical field revolves around money, you shouldn't be working in the field.

You get a job to get money. Being a doctor is not only hard work, but is a huge investment. No matter how much you like saving lives, if you have to spend years paying off your large debt from school, many people won't find it worth the trouble. After all, they can invest their time and money into countless other professions, where they'd work less for the same pay.

(2) it's important to note that health care reform should NOT be the receiver of blame, but the severely flawed education system in the United States. Obama, in his State of the Union, said he will work to place a 10 year cap on student loans, in an effort to reduce the stranglehold they place on college and professional school graduates. In the end, if you want the money to pay for your bills (or in my friend's case, future bills), work on reforming the burden the bills create in the first place rather than deny 32 million people the right to life.

Easier said than done. But yes, as of right now Colleges seem so expensive that I don't even know if they're really worth it. Over time you get more money, but is the extra work worth the stress of those loans you have to pay back after? Meh, maybe its personal preference, or you really live in a highly competitive area and really need that extra boost on your resume.

Pretty sure most Americans aren't exactly aiming for the communist ideal...

I'm fairly sure you're not actually familiar with what that entails.

I'm fairly sure you're not actually familiar with what that entails.

I'm fully aware that Communism isn't a "fair and equal" society, but that's what it tried to aim for. After all, it's impossible for a truly equal society to exist. America has always been a "dog eat dog" system, and I don't see that changing any time this decade.

Americans can say they live in a totally free, uncontrolled capitalist society...but it's always been only semi-capitalist. It's impossible for a state to be purely capitalistic, as it's impossible for a state to remain truly communist.

The two-tier system in England is something I'm not a fan of, mainly because it really is a kick in the groin to Care workers in the public system, who are often just as if not more qualified, who work more, for less money.

I'm unsure if that exists in other provinces in Canada, but for now I'd rather have universal health care, with no private option. At least that way Medical workers can focus on their Hippocratic oath of doing no harm, rather than doing no harm UNLESS they can't afford it.