The awaited leeching debacle!

Leeching isn't legit guys. Not even in Nexon eye's. However, it's not against the rules.

Leeching isn't legit because you're not doing the work yourself like everyone else. Plain & Simple.

Leeching isn't legit guys. Not even in Nexon eye's. However, it's not against the rules.

Leeching isn't legit because you're not doing the work yourself like everyone else. Plain & Simple.

Legit: Slang for "Legitimate"
Legitimate: in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

It's not against the rules. It's not illegitimate.

Legit: Slang for "Legitimate"
Legitimate: in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

It's not against the rules. It's not illegitimate.

I'm talking about the unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules for almost all MMORPGS.

By that logic paying someone else to kill your mobs for you makes you just as law abiding as doing it yourself.

How? You can't substitute wrong for right like that. By that standard, nothing is ever wrong. And maybe you believe that, but sorry, that doesn't fly for the rest of the world.

edit: too tired to keep going. I am too stubborn to let up because I do believe leeching is wrong regardless, and I think Nexon has too much to gain from it to let go. But I can't keep arguing especially since we're getting into DEFINITION OF RIGHT AND WRONG territory. No more thinking.

By that logic paying someone else to kill your mobs for you makes you just as law abiding as doing it yourself.

I'm sorry Eos, that doesn't make any sense.

That's like saying: "Hey, I'll pay you $10 to do this test/homework for me"
Sure, you get you're homework done, but you haven't really accomplished much because you didn't really do it or learn from it. You simply paid someone to do it for you.

tl;dr Repeat thread,

But all the same, I still say they should implement a party kill counter much like we have an attack counter that stops you from using skills after 100 uses standing still. Then just make it so that if you don't even touch a monster for 100 kills, you automatically stop earning exp from the party. I'm not so adverse to the idea of helping out lower levels in training, but when they do it while they are afk; it just feels like you're doing it wrong.

Granted, I suppose that would still leave the boss leeching issue, or did they fix the PQ accuracy thing already? (I swear I remember hearing about that, but my memory fails in regards to if they did it or not.)

How? You can't substitute wrong for right like that. By that standard, nothing is ever wrong. And maybe you believe that, but sorry, that doesn't fly for the rest of the world.

edit: too tired to keep going. I am too stubborn to let up because I do believe leeching is wrong regardless, and I think Nexon has too much to gain from it to let go. But I can't keep arguing especially since we're getting into DEFINITION OF RIGHT AND WRONG territory. No more thinking.

You implied that killing your lover is against the law (which it is). Therefore, paying someone else to kill your lover is also against the law (which you stated). You compared paying someone else to kill your lover to paying someone else to kill your mobs. Therefore, killing your own mobs is just as illegal as paying someone else to kill your mobs.

1 = 2 and 3 = 2 and 3 = 4. 4 = 1.

You implied that killing your lover is against the law (which it is). Therefore, paying someone else to kill your lover is also against the law (which you stated). You compared paying someone else to kill your lover to paying someone else to kill your mobs. Therefore, killing your own mobs is just as illegal as paying someone else to kill your mobs.

1 = 2 and 3 = 2 and 3 = 4. 4 = 1.

Oh I guess I read it wrong. Well maybe I forgot to say that you're insane so you're technically afk and your mind is acting like it's pre-programmed... like botting.


*slams face on desk*

done.

I'm sorry Eos, that doesn't make any sense.

That's like saying: "Hey, I'll pay you $10 to do this test/homework for me"
Sure, you get you're homework done, but you haven't really accomplished much because you didn't really do it or learn from it. You simply paid someone to do it for you.

No, because homework is graded. It's an actual measure of your ability.

MapleStory is a game. The only goal is to get from point A to point B within the rules. Having someone carry your ass isn't against the rules, therefore paying them to do so does not in any way make you a less legitimate player than someone who walked the whole way themselves. Less talented, maybe, but exactly how much talent does it take to play Maple? How many skills do you go through in early levels that you will never use again? All the mobs requiring anything near a strategy to defeat are essentially end game. Some leechers may be quite awesome as players, once they stop leeching and actually start participating, but have no way to shine till they've actually got all their skills and can do everything. 90% of the leechers, like 90% of the entire game's popupation, will no doubt suck, fail and quit. Almost everyone quits before 200 anyhow, what's a few more in the "above 120" quitters range matter to anyone?

How? You can't substitute wrong for right like that. By that standard, nothing is ever wrong. And maybe you believe that, but sorry, that doesn't fly for the rest of the world.

You're making a video game into a moral decision where none exists. It's immoral to hack the game and make the rules apply to you differently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having someone play the game for you, legally. It's no differnet from the thousands of players who were given characters by their older siblings who outgrew the game or whatever.

You implied that killing your lover is against the law (which it is). Therefore, paying someone else to kill your lover is also against the law (which you stated). You compared paying someone else to kill your lover to paying someone else to kill your mobs. Therefore, killing your own mobs is just as illegal as paying someone else to kill your mobs.

1 = 2 and 3 = 2 and 3 = 4. 4 = 1.

Actually isn't getting someone else to kill somone for you even worse?
I thought it was called Capital.....
Anyway:
THIS TOPIC IS DERAILING
As BombsAway said, it looks as if we're about to jump into a whole other subject.

Also, I don't think leech is right, but, I won't have to care about anymore, due to the upcoming nerf, most smart people will realise that training by themselves will be of more benefit than leeching. Henceforth, the death of leeching.

The only reason, that I see, that people would protect leeching, is that it's their main money source and that they're lazy.
GUESS WHAT? Even in the virtual world, you can't be a lazy bum, you have to work.

The original topic was basically "Is the nerf coming" And, yes, it probably is, end.

[COLOR="Green"]I personally consider leeching to not be illegitimate. I know that someone could leech and be able to surpass my level in an instance with money. But they lose out on many things by doing so, and like Nexon said, that's their problem.

You can't ask EVERYONE to abide by your unwritten and personal rules for playing a game. It's like saying that items make things unfair to Super Smash Bros. I know that someone is going to call me out and say that that's a feature of the game that helps everyone, and is free, but I'm going by principles here, not actuality.

You don't have to leech. You don't have to not leech. It's a game and you can choose how to play it. The nerfed exp would be a very nice idea, except in the fact that it ruins party training. All this sort of thing will do will make a bunch of Mages unhappy and cause a large sink in the economy of them.[/COLOR]

This thread is just a broken record. People who have a moral problem with leeching in an online game, against people who have no problem leeching in an online game because the game company has already said it's ok, but with a warning that you 'wont have as much fun doing it'.

Nearly every person against leeching is against it for a singlular reason. Because they feel it diminishes their leveling accomplishment. The problems start when they avoid this one fact, and start avidly searching for other possible reasons as to why leeching is bad. RL comparisons, economic downfalls, illegitimacy, cheating comparisons, unusable maps. They're all bogus distractions.

Guess what, we're all human. We dont LIKE it when someone gets something with less effort that what we got it for. That's NORMAL. But just because you dont like it, does not make it wrong. Especially in the context of an online game that lets you do it within the scope that the game's rules allow.

The only person who's even had the balls to admit this fact is Grog.

You're right, but when I see characters zoom up to level 150~160 in a month, I can't help but grit my teeth at the thought of how long it took me to get up to those levels. Why shouldn't I? It's like one of those typical sitcom scenarios where the dumbass gets the promotion and the hard worker just gives a blank stare.

While I don't care about it much anymore, I used to love seeing my character shoot up through ranks as I trained. Luckily, barely any leechers make it past 15x~16x (I wonder why?), but that's a kick in the balls to anyone within a leecher's level range.

Leeching isn't legit guys. Not even in Nexon eye's. However, it's not against the rules.

Leeching isn't legit because you're not doing the work yourself like everyone else. Plain & Simple.

With all due respect...

Why does a game have to be "work?" Games are "fun." Turning games from "fun" to "work" is why MMORPGs are not games in the true sense of the word. More like a stressful full time job where YOU pay THEM to be working.

If some FMer amassed 40 billion mesos by merchanting and feels like being lvl 170, I think he's put all the "work" into the game he should have, and then some.

I'm gunna agree with Greg here. I know Nexon says that it isn't against the rules, but that doesn't mean much. There's so many different scenarios and types and methods that there's no real way to say that it's completely wrong.

Besides, I think the implimentation of a new exp formula would prove pretty conclusively that nexon doesn't like leeching.

Accidentally stealing and stealing are the same. Except that when you accidentally steal and find out, the chances of you realising what you did was wrong and going back are much greater. Neither leechers or hackers have that much of a conscience though.

Let's see, how are leeching and hacking the same...
Power leveling without needing to be at the computer? Check.
Making maps unusable for other people? Check.
Making Nexon money? Leechers: check. Hackers: Nope.

I dunno, I can't think of any other examples, but that pretty much sums it up.

By that argument, stealing and buying are also more or less the same:
You gain the item you want to? Check
Making the store money? Buyers: Check, Thieves: Nope.

And thus, people that steal an item are the same, apart from the money-earning-thing.

But as a very extreme argument, do you think that paying someone to kill your lover makes you less guilty than if you killed them yourself? Same result, different means. Still bad.

Both are, by law, not allowed. Therefore, both are guilty. "Who's the most guilty" is a philosophic interesting question, but that does not matter when we just want to find out if someone's guilty of doing something.

You're stating that killing your lover is against the law (at least, you seem to imply so), and because of that, you're stating that paying someone to kill your lover is against the law. That would, in this case, mean that if killing your mobs is against the law, then paying someone to kill your mob for you is against the law. But none of these are true.

By that logic paying someone else to kill your mobs for you makes you just as law abiding as doing it yourself.

How? You can't substitute wrong for right like that. By that standard, nothing is ever wrong. And maybe you believe that, but sorry, that doesn't fly for the rest of the world.

There's no substitution of wrong or right. If you ask person B to do action C for a sum of money, then you and person B are responsible for action C, if person B was not going to do action C without your money. Therefore, the punishment or reward of doing action C should be shared between person B and you. Which is exactly what is happening here. The reward (exp) is being shared (tadaa) for a sum of money. The sum of money could always be substituted with "something else", assuming "something else" is legal.

Edit: Seems like I'm slow, and that my points have been stated already.

This thread is just a broken record. People who have a moral problem with leeching in an online game, against people who have no problem leeching in an online game because the game company has already said it's ok, but with a warning that you 'wont have as much fun doing it'.

Nearly every person against leeching is against it for a singlular reason. Because they feel it diminishes their leveling accomplishment. The problems start when they avoid this one fact, and start avidly searching for other possible reasons as to why leeching is bad. RL comparisons, economic downfalls, illegitimacy, cheating comparisons, unusable maps. They're all bogus distractions.

Guess what, we're all human. We dont LIKE it when someone gets something with less effort that what we got it for. That's NORMAL. But just because you dont like it, does not make it wrong. Especially in the context of an online game that lets you do it within the scope that the game's rules allow.

The only person who's even had the balls to admit this fact is Grog.

I've always known that most leechers are failures. Mostly because they can't handle the intense grinding that occurs at higher levels. If they had gone up gradually, like most people, they may have not noticed due to the fact that they were use to slow grinding. However. They don't. They Leech.

It's like the real world. Sure, you can cheat all you want in high school, even (not recommended) in college. But. Once the real world comes. Make sure it doesn't give you too much of a beating.

What I'm saying is that, if you're leeching, you're not experiencing the real thing because you're to lazy too. Once the real thing comes, how prepared will you be? Probably alot less than those who actually worked to get where they are.


ANYWAY. I'm dropping out of this discussion. We're obviously not going to agree on this subject, so why bother?

I don't really care how long people take to level up - I know Priests will level faster than I ever could, whatever. They're strong, that's up to them. They get something different out of MS than I do.

It's when they are leveling up without even playing the game - that bothers me. Money should not be a substitute for time - I'm not against money adding to the experience, but it should not replace time spent entirely. So I am against leeching for the same reason I am against selling accounts - that is not earning your character.

Adding a mob-counter for inactivity (no more exp leech if you afk for more than 20 kills) is just the start.

Soft-log-outs could be another solution - if you idle too long you are no longer "in" the map, you can still receive whispers and stuff but you have to click to "re-enter" the map. Like logging in, except without typing password/pin or selecting the character, and you can cast buffs before re-entering (to make Magicians safe if they accidentally log in on a Goby house or something). Disable this at bosses and PQs, but in training maps I see no problems.

I think this needs a restart.
First of all a clear definition of leeching and leechers is needed.

Then we all need to realise we're dealing with real people in a massively multiplayer online role-playing game and do NOT forget about this. People have opinions, opinion means crap argument. Facts please.

Basically what I'm trying to say: put some more effort in your arguments.

-Note: Of course there are some good arguments discussed already. However, many more seem to be just disses to one other.

I don't really care how long people take to level up - I know Priests will level faster than I ever could, whatever. They're strong, that's up to them. They get something different out of MS than I do.

It's when they are leveling up without even playing the game - that bothers me. Money should not be a substitute for time - I'm not against money adding to the experience, but it should not replace time spent entirely. So I am against leeching for the same reason I am against selling accounts - that is not earning your character.

Adding a mob-counter for inactivity (no more exp leech if you afk for more than 20 kills) is just the start.

Soft-log-outs could be another solution - if you idle too long you are no longer "in" the map, you can still receive whispers and stuff but you have to click to "re-enter" the map. Like logging in, except without typing password/pin or selecting the character, and you can cast buffs before re-entering (to make Magicians safe if they accidentally log in on a Goby house or something). Disable this at bosses and PQs, but in training maps I see no problems.

Before I say it, this is a legitimate question, and is not meant to be an argument against you.

What if one is to leech themselves?

You said that those who level up without even playing the game are those who are at fault. So what if you are both playing the game and leveling up, but in a different manner?

[COLOR="Green"]I personally consider leeching to not be illegitimate. I know that someone could leech and be able to surpass my level in an instance with money. But they lose out on many things by doing so, and like Nexon said, that's their problem.

You can't ask EVERYONE to abide by your unwritten and personal rules for playing a game. It's like saying that items make things unfair to Super Smash Bros. I know that someone is going to call me out and say that that's a feature of the game that helps everyone, and is free, but I'm going by principles here, not actuality.

You don't have to leech. You don't have to not leech. It's a game and you can choose how to play it. The nerfed exp would be a very nice idea, except in the fact that it ruins party training. All this sort of thing will do will make a bunch of Mages unhappy and cause a large sink in the economy of them.[/COLOR]

Wait, are you involving Smash in this debate? Am I going to have to get 'srsbsns' here?

On-topic, MapleStory went downhill when people exploited Ults for the purpose of training their weaker characters. Sure, it's Nexon that made the skills, but blame the players for leeching. I'm rather neutral on the subject though, since I couldn't give a rat's-ass which side is 'correct' or justified.