Character worth

I have an I/L arch mage too. I made it because I like the I/L skills LIKE Ice Strike. StarMiles was my idol many years ago. I/Ls are useless though. Therefore I did not touch my i/l arch mage for around 4 months. It's still the same % as before.

I made my bishop because I liked clerics. I started my first LUKless character as a cleric therefore I remade it with a better IGN (name changed now) and separate account so I could leech/HS mule. But then later I was intent on getting it to bishop so I could join bosses. But, bishops are so common that nobody wants me anymore. Horntail is already out of the question. People don't even want me at zak anymore lol.

I made my corsair similar to your reason. To be accepted in bosses. At first, I was attacted by the damage on paper. Corsairs are the hardest hitters on battleship. So I bandwagoned. HOWEVER, soon I found out it's not the case. Heroes are the hardest hitting classes in the game due to their funding and speed. My friend can do like 90k total brandishes being around 12 levels higher than me. :3 NOW, I accept my weakness and just play because I already love it to death. <33 Sure I am annoyed by recoil which is slow as hell. My control SUCKS ass too since I leech.


Never bandwagon. New classes like aran fail to impress me. I'll just make an Evan because I love mages.

wow, get out of my head!! im just about identical to you in my maplestory. i adore mages just because i love anything magical and want to make every possible mage in game out of the sheer FUN to me (aside from 4th job bishop-which was monotonous hell and ppl begging for leech b4 im even fully logged in, tho levels 1-130 were actual fun to me)

i, too, made a corsair in the hopes of being handy for bossing, but while i had fun training him to his upper 9x levels, after that leech took hold as i was dying way too often (so used to tanking stuff on mages) and it just isnt the same feeling i get when i play a mage.

as much as i love my mages , the sad fact is that even a lvl 200 of all 3 mage types would prolly be worth less to most than a mid 15x sair/NL/BM that wants to go shoot stuff at bosses and stroke their epenors. its a lil daunting playing a corsair--tho at times i wonder whats so great to "train" via nonstop anegoing versus self leeching by way of a mage. im not doing anything special sitting out of dmg range just pelting her with dps til i run out of bullets and rinsing n repeating. while my goal was to take my sair to lvl 180 and get 12-15k base HP, i just dont see any fun in it and im already looking fwd to the mage im making on her account for the blessing buff.

and while evens look like crippled mages with a my buddy dragon, i cant wait to make one as well just for the magical fun

Getting into parties depends on your connections. And hell,thinking your class is inferior is thinking like them. I know I wouldn't want to have the same attitude as the person that put me down.

No I didn't say that...... I said something comparable. Mages should never have equal damage to other single target DPSers, but they shouldn't be sat out because their damage is just that bad or take 3x as long to kill a boss. If Nexon helped out mages, then of course they should increase the damage of arrow rain/erruption, dragon pulse, and avenger (or at least increase poison damage). Just because you help classes in one area, doesn't mean you shouldn't help out other classes in other areas as well.

yea so all class should have a ultimate that hit 15 targets at once and a single dps move that matches triple throw right?

in fact why don't we delete all class and combine them to make 1 class that can use every move in the game and then call it a balanced game since it is impossible not to be balanced...

There is no class in this game that is party unfriendly.

then why are some classes more wanted in party than others

yea so all class should have a ultimate that hit 15 targets at once and a single dps move that matches triple throw right?

In fact why don't we delete all class and combine them to make 1 class that can use every move in the game and then call it a balanced game since it is impossible not to be balanced...

wooosh

balance != give everyone the same skills

I have an I/L arch mage too. I made it because I like the I/L skills LIKE Ice Strike. StarMiles was my idol many years ago. I/Ls are useless though. Therefore I did not touch my i/l arch mage for around 4 months. It's still the same % as before.

I made my bishop because I liked clerics. I started my first LUKless character as a cleric therefore I remade it with a better IGN (name changed now) and separate account so I could leech/HS mule. But then later I was intent on getting it to bishop so I could join bosses. But, bishops are so common that nobody wants me anymore. Horntail is already out of the question. People don't even want me at zak anymore lol.

I made my corsair similar to your reason. To be accepted in bosses. At first, I was attacted by the damage on paper. Corsairs are the hardest hitters on battleship. So I bandwagoned. HOWEVER, soon I found out it's not the case. Heroes are the hardest hitting classes in the game due to their funding and speed. My friend can do like 90k total brandishes being around 12 levels higher than me. :3 NOW, I accept my weakness and just play because I already love it to death. <33 Sure I am annoyed by recoil which is slow as hell. My control SUCKS ass too since I leech.





Never bandwagon. New classes like aran fail to impress me. I'll just make an Evan because I love mages.

[SIZE="3"]you still my [/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]HERO[/SIZE][SIZE="3"]![/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]Keith<333[/SIZE]

wow, get out of my head!! im just about identical to you in my maplestory. i adore mages just because i love anything magical and want to make every possible mage in game out of the sheer FUN to me (aside from 4th job bishop-which was monotonous hell and ppl begging for leech b4 im even fully logged in, tho levels 1-130 were actual fun to me)

i, too, made a corsair in the hopes of being handy for bossing, but while i had fun training him to his upper 9x levels, after that leech took hold as i was dying way too often (so used to tanking stuff on mages) and it just isnt the same feeling i get when i play a mage.

as much as i love my mages , the sad fact is that even a lvl 200 of all 3 mage types would prolly be worth less to most than a mid 15x sair/NL/BM that wants to go shoot stuff at bosses and stroke their epenors. its a lil daunting playing a corsair--tho at times i wonder whats so great to "train" via nonstop anegoing versus self leeching by way of a mage. im not doing anything special sitting out of dmg range just pelting her with dps til i run out of bullets and rinsing n repeating. while my goal was to take my sair to lvl 180 and get 12-15k base HP, i just dont see any fun in it and im already looking fwd to the mage im making on her account for the blessing buff.

and while evens look like crippled mages with a my buddy dragon, i cant wait to make one as well just for the magical fun

Oh for me I'm depressed atm on how much mesos I have to spent to wash my corsair and get equips. My arch mage's gear is good but I don't want to sell that to fund my corsair. I feel weak comparing to most godly funded corsairs who make it their main. Wow you're really going to go for 12-15k Base HP?? How much hp do you have now at 15x? I have about 6.6k total hp which I feel isn't good enough. I might try double washing starting 150 (planning on staying that level for a while/or save APs starting then).

DrRusty,

Your suggestions mainly go toward making all classes a bit better on what they are worst. That's not a good way to balance classes since you would be making them more equal, when jobs are supposed to be different.

What needs to be done is make all classes useful and not equal.

DrRusty,

Your suggestions mainly go toward making all classes a bit better on what they are worst. That's not a good way to balance classes since you would be making them more equal, when jobs are supposed to be different.

What needs to be done is make all classes useful and not equal.

It's fine to excel at something more than other classes, but there's a reasonable amount and there's a "wow wtp that's ridiculous" amount.

For example- mage ultimate spam training vs every other class

The difference in training speed is HUGE. It's not just 10% or 15%, it's 200% of a difference.

Same thing when it comes to a boss fight. My shadower is going to have major trouble soloing an anego, BF, or zakum. At the same time, an NL can kill an anego or BF in a few minutes. I'm not sure about how fast their zak times have become since I've been away from MS for a while. The argument comes up "well shadowers can train faster". By how much? A nightlord can kill a boss 2-3x faster, can my shadower train 2-3x faster? No.. he can't. Another argument that has already been brought up is seduce mule. Okay... one shadower per HT run is all that's needed or even wanted. Any shadower that comes as DPS is just being carried by everyone else.

Having damage isn't the only way to make a class useful though. The occassional time leap is nice to bring a buc or two for, but then what about paladins? What about bringing a mage to a boss fight? If paladins are where they should be damage wise, then what about giving them a group buff.

Paladin's Blessing - "Increases the damage of each party member by 5%"

or something for mages

Ice/Fire shield - "Decreases the damage taken by each party member by 20%"

Just something that would keep guilds from stacking a ton of NLs, BMs, and heroes.


Maybe I've just been on WoW to long. I'm used very balanced classes. When I look at recount (DPS meter) it goes something like
Precision- 1,400,546 - 6700 dps - 7.5% (my DPS and how much of the total damage I did while in combat vs everyone else)
Rugglemuffin- 1,355,600 - 6400 dps - 7%
Copernicus- 1,264,798 - 6000dps - 6.2%
and it goes down like this. The difference in damage from the top DPS and the bottom DPS is only 2 or 3%

not

Precision -10,000,000 - 10,000 dps - 50%
Rugglemuffin- 500,000 - 1,000 dps - 5%

which is more what a "maple recount" would look like

This thread is made of win. I'm playing my page and loving it. THAT's RIGHT, A PAGE MOFOS. Anyways, it's only gonna get better in 3rd job and better STILL in loladin land!

Er, NLs are hardly stronger than Shadowers at all without SE and ~50% with. Not 2x. Shadowers can probably train 30% faster than NLs?

Er, NLs are hardly stronger than Shadowers at all without SE and ~50% with.

That's only on paper though. What about a zakums top arms or HTs arms. Shadowers can't even reach them with anything but bstep.

Then when shadowers are near a ledge, we can't even use the last hit of assassinate or follow it with a bstep while any other class doesn't have a problem.

Then there's the problem with scaling. NL + apple = owns everyone. While shadower + apple = moderate increase. When nexon designed the game, they didn't take into account onyx apples, yet nothing has been done to balance around that. As gear increases, and more attack power and stats are added to gear, NLs ability to scale well just gets more insane.

I'm sorry for using you NLs as guinea pigs, but you guys are pretty OP

Shadowers can probably train 30% faster than NLs?

I've never seen anyone try to get data on training speed of the two classes, but I doubt it's 30%.

then why are some classes more wanted in party than others

Because the people who host those parties care only about damage.

Er, NLs are hardly stronger than Shadowers at all without SE and ~50% with. Not 2x. Shadowers can probably train 30% faster than NLs?

The shadower friends I have get about 3x the exp an hour I can get.

That's only on paper though. What about a zakums top arms or HTs arms. Shadowers can't even reach them with anything but bstep.

Then when shadowers are near a ledge, we can't even use the last hit of assassinate or follow it with a bstep while any other class doesn't have a problem.

Then there's the problem with scaling. NL + apple = owns everyone. While shadower + apple = moderate increase. When nexon designed the game, they didn't take into account onyx apples, yet nothing has been done to balance around that. As gear increases, and more attack power and stats are added to gear, NLs ability to scale well just gets more insane.

I'm sorry for using you NLs as guinea pigs, but you guys are pretty OP



I've never seen anyone try to get data on training speed of the two classes, but I doubt it's 30%.

Onyx Apples break a lot of balancing. They're mostly a GMS problem. The advantage NLs get over Shadowers with Apples aren't even the main issue. That's like NLs get maybe 65% stronger and Shadowers get 50% stronger. Marksmen get totally shafted because of Snipe's fixed damage. Archmages have nothing even comparable.

As for not being able to hit things, sorry? That's only relevant to the specific boss. I dunno, NLs have to deal with summons if they're soloing a boss. It's not like the fight revolves around being able to use your most damaging skills 100% of the time.

NLs are one of the slowest training classes in the game. The only class that trains slower is BMs. Shadowers are one of the fastest if not the fastest after mages. I'm sure it's 30%, if not more.

The shadower friends I have get about 3x the exp an hour I can get.

You're crazy. Still getting 6m/hr? You should be able to break 8. Corsairs and MMs train at similar speeds, though MMs should be slightly faster at TT.

It'd take a Bishop to train 3 times as fast, and even that's comparing 1hkoing at Skeles to weak MM...

You're crazy. Still getting 6m/hr? You should be able to break 8. Corsairs and MMs train at similar speeds, though MMs should be slightly faster at TT.

lol if I get 5m an hour its been a good hour.

I'm currently doing the TT 999 quests. I think I'm up to Chief Oblivion Guardians, so I'll see how much I get once I'm done with the quests.

This thread seems a little weird to me. Everyone's getting bashed for playing the popular classes, and it seems like people can't "love" a popular class... that they must be playing it only because it's popular. Well... Let me say, when I first started MS, I made a cleric to fund a "low-dex" White Knight. 4th job wasn't even out.

Before level 40, I was already in love with that cleric, and I'm almost 160 and still going. To this day I can't even put my finger on why I love this class. My class has SERIOUS weaknesses, though.

• No mob skill in between strong, slow Gen and pathetically weak, short-range Shining Ray.
  
• Near-inability to solo bosses due to terrible DPS. It took me an hour to solo Pap at 138. AN HOUR. Even an archmage could do it in half the time. And I got max Dragon, too.
  
• Lack of freeze, stun, or seal makes us very vulnerable while we are casting Gen. I actually use a near-comparable amount of potions as my I/L AM training partner, simply because I get lasered by the Skeles so much. That will change when I 1hko, but even the godliest bishop has a good 40 levels of casting Gen without 1hkoing Skeles.
  
• Constantly begged to sell leech, give leech for free, and "train" with people in the late 11x/low 12x who can't keep up with Skeles at all. It makes me feel great to help people out now and then, but I like getting good exp too, and I can get a good three times the exp training with another 2hko magician than I can essentially-leeching a 12x who can't clear the bottom.
  
• I don't solo. At all. It's just not fun to me anymore. I love this class as a party class. Heck, once I 1hko and soloing technically becomes "better", I'll probably still party. It's fun!
  
• Affording Gen30. 'Nuff said.
  

I REALLY love to boss on my bishop, though, both solo and partied. I'm not too proud to be pure support. Sure, I'll cast AR when the DrK wants to Zerk, but if there's no DrK it's better for me to heal everyone anyway, save them a bit of DPS. In all honesty, it's just as fun. Heck, I like being in seduce party at HT. It's more challenging and more fun. It makes you feel useful when there is something only your class can do, i.e., keep people alive during seduce. It's a neat feeling.

I boss a ton, both with friends for no profits (helping guildies get Zak helms, say), and in larger for-profit groups. Profit isn't the main focus for me, the main thing being to have fun and to take down something with friends, to feel like you accomplished something. I will say, though, that profit is a good thing to me. I don't sell leech, so money for potions, equips, and Gen30 is a welcome thing. I'd rather boss for my money (since I was going to boss anyway; I'd be bored of this game without it) than farm Harps or Wolf Spiders for hours.


And I am continuing my White Knight, too... I love Paladins as a class and can't wait to play one. But I won't really want to boss on it. I find attacking at bosses pretty boring unless there's a lot of skill required. If I ever make a DPS character, it'll be a corsair. I like trying to dodge attacks just because I can, even though my reflexes kinda suck.


Side note, having trained with a shad and an NL of similar levels, I would have to agree that 30% faster is a fair number. More once the turkeys are gone.

hmm, I love how blizzard was quoted as being one of the best at balancing classes, when at least 6 of my friends quit because they got tired of them balancing classes too much. And before you make the assumption, it wasnt because their class(es) got nerfed too much or anything, they just got tired of the fact that the jobs arent really different anymore, and that pretty much everyone can be the tanks, or dps, or to a degree healing too. They blamed it on the WoW boards in that blizzard inevitably listened to the whiners among their fanbase, far too much. I've also heard that hunters in WoW aren't wanted for anything, ever. Like some of our lesser classes such as AM's and Paladins (and i go on plenty of zak/scarlion runs with both of those). Of course, I dont claim first hand knowledge of WoW, this is just what several of my friends told me as their reason for quitting

Of course, that, to a degree, is better then not listening at all, and constantly tweaking skills is better, to a degree, then never tweaking.

Oh for me I'm depressed atm on how much mesos I have to spent to wash my corsair and get equips. My arch mage's gear is good but I don't want to sell that to fund my corsair. I feel weak comparing to most godly funded corsairs who make it their main. Wow you're really going to go for 12-15k Base HP?? How much hp do you have now at 15x? I have about 6.6k total hp which I feel isn't good enough. I might try double washing starting 150 (planning on staying that level for a while/or save APs starting then).

the cost is so freaking prohibitive iono what im thinking continuing... just spent 1.75b on a 9attack belt and its like... "average/not special". im floored by "attack class" gear! for my mage, even having what id consider excellent gear, i was able to get great deals. its so impossible to find scrolled pirate-esp guns-stuff for sale that its depressing as hell. as fo rmy HP ive used approx 400 resets so far (many many many double washes) and i have 7983 base HP @ lvl 155. i just snagged 50 more on the sale and that is currently my ONLY motivation to lvl at this point. sadly this amount of HP is 99% for the fact that i am used to playing a mage for the past 5 years and tanking stuff, or paying nearly no attn to potting. yes its amazing the dmg she puts out and im learning how to stay on my boat the maximum amount of time possible, but i just HATE this class so much that i'm starting to resent it. i feel like im too far gone into lvling her that i have no choice but to continue. im telling myself at lvl 160 i can lvl her blessing FP. really looking fwd to that cuz its where im happiest

I'm more of a "screw character worth" type of guy.

I have a not lollukless I/L.
Hp Page.
Strless Brawler.

Yeah...my only stat-hoar char is my Perma-50 Dawn Warrior.
Really, the only character worth that exists is the fun you have with your character.