Class Role Balance

That was true with a Snipe cooldown of 5 seconds. Now that it's been reduced to 4 (another 10k DPS for Marksmen), you would need to be comparing the two classes on a ridiculously high damage scale for Bowmasters to outdamage Marksmen by 180. Which basically means, with Apples. I think Snipe needs to be changed to do something like 4000% damage and a cap of 500k. Cooldown of 5 seconds is fine.

Well, don't forget ohko will come in mighty handy when we end up having to deal with neo tokyo like mobs. o_o

Strength Mages, problem solved.

Lol, reminds me of that time when someone posted pics of him and his friends poking a death teddy to death.

They have a lot of items that can buff up magic attack to massive heights... I've never played a mage before so forgive me if I happen to type the wrong thing. But I guess mages don't need to use those magic boosting items other than wizard elixirs because others are costly and aren't really worth it at bosses. Apples add 100 m. att too, and those nitro items from that NLC robot that adds like 1000 m. att for 5 seconds or some items along those lines...

There is no Onyx Apple equivalent for mages that is easily obtainable. 100 w. att > 100 m. att. Yea, those NLC power potions give awesome damage, but for a measly 5 seconds. Not worth much then. :/

There is no apple boost equalivalent for mages. They probably should just alter the m. att on apples but meh.

That or release a 500 m.att pot that lasts 10 minutes and comes from APQ. They'd get more money and whatnot too.

I wonder what's the big deal about giving more m.att in potions meant for bossing? 1k magic for 5 seconds is pitiful. Maybe they just don't understand mage formulae and how to balance it with melee classes. xD

Maybe they just don't understand mage formulae and how to balance it with melee classes. xD

It's not possible to balance it with a fixed m.atk...


Give a level 20 a +500 matk pot and they're as strong as a level 120. Give a level 50 a +500 matk pot and they're as strong as a level 150. It's always +100 levels. For w.atk, the base luk/dex/str matters, so you can't become 4th job powerful.


If they could pull off +50% m.atk pots that would probably come closer to balance with Onyx Apples.

It's not possible to balance it with a fixed m.atk...


Give a level 20 a +500 matk pot and they're as strong as a level 120. Give a level 50 a +500 matk pot and they're as strong as a level 150. It's always +100 levels. For w.atk, the base luk/dex/str matters, so you can't become 4th job powerful.


If they could pull off +50% m.atk pots that would probably come closer to balance with Onyx Apples.

A level 50 would still be using 2nd job skills, though...don't the skills you use make a big difference on damage?

umm somethings about the low dps at buccaneers

i asked some nl mates that were lvl 160 they said they did like 10k avg with the normal stars and 5k with sp stars with 12 w.att pot

so thats 300x10 and 300x5=4500k in 1min(600 stars a min)

for me lvl 163

i do like avg dmg with demolition is 22k on avg

33 demolitions a min

33x8x22=5808k in 1min with 12 w.att pot

its true that i dont have demolition all the time and that this is without apple and se but still i bet the dps of buccaneers aint bad

that thing with NLs is that they get a greater improvement from SE and Apples than buccaneers do. So you may outdamage then this way, but higher attack pots and SE should tilt the balance the other way.

A level 50 would still be using 2nd job skills, though...don't the skills you use make a big difference on damage?

Yes, but it's not all that big. I mean abviously you can't use Genesis but Heal is about as strong as any of the 3rd job mobbing skills, so a level 50 Cleric could do damage on par with probably lv.120 Priests. Meaning Himes training as soon as they have the accuracy for it.

umm somethings about the low dps at buccaneers

i asked some nl mates that were lvl 160 they said they did like 10k avg with the normal stars and 5k with sp stars with 12 w.att pot

so thats 300x10 and 300x5=4500k in 1min(600 stars a min)

"Normal Stars" ie. non-SE, I'm assuming (since a non-crit 16x star should do up to about 8-10k, and thus average that damage withoutu SE) SE boosts NL damage by about 60%, pushing 4500k up to 7000k.

that thing with NLs is that they get a greater improvement from SE and Apples than buccaneers do. So you may outdamage then this way, but higher attack pots and SE should tilt the balance the other way.

umm somethings about the low dps at buccaneers

i asked some nl mates that were lvl 160 they said they did like 10k avg with the normal stars and 5k with sp stars with 12 w.att pot

so thats 300x10 and 300x5=4500k in 1min(600 stars a min)

for me lvl 163

i do like avg dmg with demolition is 22k on avg

33 demolitions a min

33x8x22=5808k in 1min with 12 w.att pot

its true that i dont have demolition all the time and that this is without apple and se but still i bet the dps of buccaneers aint bad

Eh actually, SE affects Barrage more than any other skill in the game. Demo is slightly less boosted from SE. Demolition isn't 33 a min, btw. It's a lot slower than that. I also think you're overestimating your own damage, because you need to have an average base damage of over 5000 to hit 22k average with Demo.

Eh actually, SE affects Barrage more than any other skill in the game. Demo is slightly less boosted from SE. Demolition isn't 33 a min, btw. It's a lot slower than that. I also think you're overestimating your own damage, because you need to have an average base damage of over 5000 to hit 22k average with Demo.

Someone please update me on how Demo works, and how Buccaneer's crits works (160% or 60%?).

assuming 400% * 8

	Demo 1	Demo 2	TT
Total %	3200%	3200%	675%
Avg %	3968%	3488%	1125%
Hits	8	8	3*
Critrate	60%(s)	60%(s)	50%
% increase per SE-hit	300%	200%	340%
Avg. % with SE	5000%	4400%	1669.5%
Avg. increase with SE	26%	26.1%	48.4%
Max % with SE	5600%	4800%	2005%

Barrage would be like Demo in terms of damage-increase and such. Well, slightly higher increase of %, but nowhere near 50%.

I thought they can only crit when the enemy is stunned, and no boss can be stunned rendering that useless. Maybe I'm wrong.

And Mages are fine, they get to train fast and dominate the entire game outside of like 10 maps. So really they need to stop crying, what I don't understand is why people still make a mage over a bishop. Their the same thing with HS, heal, dispell and res. Their brought to bosses aswell and are uneffected by the ele wands. All while using half the MP and 100 base magic more on their ultimate spell. So a elemental boost would be nice as a party skill . Paladins need fixing, thats the only class that really needs immediate help besides shadowers. Shadowers can make smokescreens cooldown shorter. Then they'll complain that their just smoke screen mules like all the warriors do about their buffs. Paladins I cant begin to think of how to buff them, other than to give them the elemental party skill that mages would like. If anything the paladins should get the buff, and mages continue dominating 98% of the maps in this game and leave the bossing to all the classes they hog the maps from.

Edit: I'd like to note that I infact love Genesis dearly, as my girlfriend is a bishop and I can sit on a rope playing guitar hero and level during a KS war.

Yes, but it's not all that big. I mean abviously you can't use Genesis but Heal is about as strong as any of the 3rd job mobbing skills, so a level 50 Cleric could do damage on par with probably lv.120 Priests. Meaning Himes training as soon as they have the accuracy for it.

Not quite... Heal is about as strong as any of the 3rd job mobbing skills when you get to third job. Heal is dependent a lot on base INT, less on MATK, and a little on level (I think? Did the formula ever get resolved?).

Anyway, upshot is that it wouldn't be as bad as you think. Heal improves with (and is handicapped by) level far more than other magician skills. For example, Heal > SR until SR level 11, but Heal starts to overtake max SR in DPS again around 11x, because Heal grows with you, more like a physical class's attack skills do.

Also... Himes training is always as soon as priests have the accuracy for it, which is still in the 7x-8x. o_O Only difference is that we'd have a chance for majority EXP rather than just the hit-once-or-twice minority EXP, but the difference wouldn't be that big. Partying would still be a must because of HS. Soloing would be... not as bad, but I doubt it would be good unless the MATK pot was very godly...

Although, as a side effect, an SR-first build could become viable.


Honestly, I'd love to be able to solo as a priest more often... Not because I hate partying. I love partying! But with all the CWK training spots where people don't need priests, nobody my level wants to party, and people much higher level than me (11x-13x) always seem to go off to Newts eventually, where I can't leech. =/

Before I get flamed, I would like to say that I'm not complaining about game balance with priests having to party. I'm complaining that the new godly solo training spots have broken the class balance already. =(

Eh, what the hell, I'll repost some balancing ideas I've had in the past (the majority are for arch mages though):

1)Make Ice and Fire Demon work on bosses, but have a lower % damage per second. Something on the order of 0.01%-0.005% damage per second, and they keep their normal effects(neutralize elemental resistances, make boss weak to summon's element). However, the bosses will remain unpoisonable by Mist and Brace.

2) Have seal work on bosses to either slow down their casting speed, or sealing just one of the boss' more dangerous spells (Mass Seducing, zombify, maybe some buffing skills, maybe even defense up).

3) Casting Ice Demon and Fire Demon in rapid succession breaks a bosses defense. By this I mean it is able to remove The Physical and/or Magical Attack immunity when cast one after another (ID, FD, ID, FD, ID, FD, ID, FD, defense skill is deactivated).

4) Change Berserk. At level 30, when the Dark Knight's hp drops below 30% it casts a buff on the DrK which lasts for 1 minute, and increases their damage by +100%. Not dispellable, 1 minute cooldown (Only added that because I know sometimes when I have lag, having a passive skill activate can prevent you from doing anything else, such as potting, which could be quite bad if separated from the healer at a boss fight).

5) Mana Reflection for Arch Mages multiplies the number of party members by the % reflected back. Basically, when you get hits and it activates, if you have 6 members in your party at the time it deals 6x200% damage back at the enemy in question.

6) Change meditation to +10% magic attack.

For other classes, alot of things changed for the better for them in more recent kms, so no changes for you .

Oh, what the hell, one more:

7) Beginner skill for Pirates, Bowmen and Thieves (obtained from a long, pain in the ass quest at lvl 160): +1000 base hp.

Edit: few more I forgot:

8) Make Demolish faster

9) Make Stun Mastery add a 60% chance to stun to all skills that don't already stun for a Brawler, does critical damage to stunned or unstunned enemies 30% of the time (2nd part is optional I guess).

10) Make a minimum range animation for Coursairs on battleship. They get off their battleship and smack the enemy in question with the battleship. Instantly kills normal enemies, does some damage to the ship(lul).

I thought they can only crit when the enemy is stunned, and no boss can be stunned rendering that useless. Maybe I'm wrong.

And Mages are fine, they get to train fast and dominate the entire game outside of like 10 maps. So really they need to stop crying, what I don't understand is why people still make a mage over a bishop. Their the same thing with HS, heal, dispell and res. Their brought to bosses aswell and are uneffected by the ele wands. All while using half the MP and 100 base magic more on their ultimate spell. So a elemental boost would be nice as a party skill . Paladins need fixing, thats the only class that really needs immediate help besides shadowers. Shadowers can make smokescreens cooldown shorter. Then they'll complain that their just smoke screen mules like all the warriors do about their buffs. Paladins I cant begin to think of how to buff them, other than to give them the elemental party skill that mages would like. If anything the paladins should get the buff, and mages continue dominating 98% of the maps in this game and leave the bossing to all the classes they hog the maps from.

Apart from out version, no other version has the 'fast training' you're referring to, due to lack of an NPC selling % based potions. Most of the changes for Arch Mages would be to help them. And most people don't still make a mage over making a bishop. However, until there's a free class change card, I'll continue to desire changes to my class to make it more useful in all situations.

I'll have no problem with sucking at bosses though, so long as Bishops are permanently altered to suck there as well, since training is even easier for them. Using the logic of Easier training = worse at bosses, it makes perfect sense.

7 is never gonna happen cuz it will ruin nexon hp wash money in come x]

2. No, too godly

10. No, that's stupid.

7 is never gonna happen cuz it will ruin nexon hp wash money in come x]

I can only take so much cynicism a day and I think you just pushed me over the edge… Ranged characters don’t have low hp so Nexon can make money from people Hp-Washing.

I also think you're overestimating your own damage, because you need to have an average base damage of over 5000 to hit 22k average with Demo.

:f6::f6:

2. No, too godly

10. No, that's stupid.

Apparently it wasn't obvious enough, #10 was meant as a joke.

As for your complaint for #2, being able to stop 1 of a boss' skills, or slow down their casting rate isn't 'godly' it just makes having 1-2 mages more necessary.

Apparently it wasn't obvious enough, #10 was meant as a joke.

As for your complaint for #2, being able to stop 1 of a boss' skills, or slow down their casting rate isn't 'godly' it just makes having 1-2 mages more necessary.

Yeah, it is really godly.

Bosses aren't supposed to be that much of a spam fest. What you're suggesting will make HT a joke.

:f6::f6:

Eh actually, SE affects Barrage more than any other skill in the game. Demo is slightly less boosted from SE. Demolition isn't 33 a min, btw. It's a lot slower than that. I also think you're overestimating your own damage, because you need to have an average base damage of over 5000 to hit 22k average with Demo.

Read. Your average damage isn't even 4500.

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