I know how to solve (chinese) farmer hackers and mastery book issues

I sorta like the idea.
Hackers in gms have already took the value out of most if not all drops that was considered valuable, so why not?
The only problem i see is making mesos.. But that is already an issue ;/.

Also merchants.. this is gonna be a kick in the balls to them but honestly should maple be this influenced by the free market? 6 year ago we didnt even have one, people traded items with each other in perion. We didnt care about massive amounts of mesos, even hitting 2.1b back then looked impossible, honestly something is fucked up when you can easily hit a cap like that..

I thought the secret mastery book was supposed to be the cure for this? A way to lower the mastery books and give other people a chance at finding one of the rarest mastery books.

I have no idea where you're going with this. If you want to make yourself clear, make yourself clear or don't say anything.

Lets look at the banter between us. First i pointed out why your suggestion would be pointless with logical reasons.

second, you were a twat about it.

third i was a twat in a return.

fourth you proceed to be a hypocrite about being a twat.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Good f'ucking luck.

And explain to me why the scrolls SHOULDN'T be untradeable. How is it a terrible idea? According to ShiKage's original suggestion, scrolls are completely gone from the drop tables (To prevent the hackers from just continuing what they are doing). If the entire point of this Scroll NPC is to replace the entire market's scrolls, then there's absolutely no reason NOT to make them untradeable. If you want to give someone a scroll, give them the cash to buy it. If you want to use them yourself, buy as many as you want, it doesn't matter, because you can't reverse them back into the market.

One of two things has to come with this and that is tradable scrolls can still be obtained as they are now or this is the only way to get scrolls. I will elaborate problems with both.

I'll do the simpler one first. If this becomes the only way to obtain scrolls then scrolls lose all market value and will become a massive hemorrhaging meso sink. this may seem good to people at first but when it is permanent it has a serious as well as permanent effect. While those scrolls lose all market value, the market value of raw meso naturally rises due to there being such a large and constantly present meso sink. But meso like all currency doesn't hold a true value of its own as it has no direct utility. (except for shadlolers. note: this is in parathensis because it isn't relevant and i don't want to see it brought up as if it is.) What this means is that other items that are traded for meso hike up in value this spike won't be in line with the natural inflation that comes with less meso, by the way. This is due to the void in current market value created by scrolls losing all value. Meaning NX, Equips, scrolled equips (especially cubed) special scrolls (lets just assume nexon isnt stupid enough to put WS and chaos scrolls in NPCs but if they are nothing in this scenario changes except that any possible exploit becomes thousands of times worse) all go up in value. The poor don't gain the gap between rich and poor isn't improved, an interesting factor reliant on luck is removed from the game and the botters just get new pomegranate to farm. It would actually be even easier as just straight meso would go up in value. Their profit just stabilizes and becomes more linear. How did legit players win here again? Whats the next solution? put more stuff in NPCs to compesate for the inevitable value hikes in these items? Guess what? you're not playing an MMO anymore. Enjoy your single player.

The second possibility is that tradable scrolls can still be obtained as they are now. This is where the auto merch guild comes into play. First they stock up on a regular tradeable scrolls. Second they manipulate the price to raise it to a profitable level and maintain it for a time. They then sell off the tradeable scrolls for a profit. The eventual results of this is a completely stagnant economy except for when new items come in from patches. Granted this is massively simplified because i don't feel like textbooking out another long explination.

You can be an ass and buy a ton to sky rocket the price, but that doesn't really do anything for you at all. Instead, you'll have a plethora of scrolls you have nothing to use on, and you're just wasting your own money. Eventually, this WILL result in the meso count being significantly lower. NPC bought items go into a black hole of mesos that you never see again. As a result, the count goes down over time.

WOW REALLY!?

Eventually, if people really don't like the idea, the developers can simply switch back to the original system.

Then it would still be f'ucking pointless which is my entire point

Yeah, it's possible that the hackers will eventually do the same thing again, but it took them years to get the market to become such a crap hole in the first place, and it's quite possible it won't happen a second time.

No it will just happen immediately they will start farming meso which will just hold more value and therefore be more efficient for gold farmers. Again no progress made. At all. BUT WAIT WE COULD PUT MESO INTO NPCS TO FIX DIS YA? DERP HERP F'UCKING DERP.

If nothing else, the developers can use the time to create a vac-prevention system, and put those Chinese hackers on the same level as the rest of us, at which point it wouldn't matter what they do.

I'll just pretend you didn't say this.

Quick guide to sarcasm: It's in capital letters.

You fix hacking/botting problems by dealing with hackers and making the system harder to bot, not by raping the in game economy in the ass.

1 Hacker per map per channel. 24/7. That's all it takes to make it unplayable.

And this is a single meso selling company.

You still aren't understanding the point. How long does it take one hacker to generate enough meso for a single scroll? How fast does it take one player to buy that scroll?

It really isn't hard to understand that scrolls and books would be bought a lot more frequently than the number of times hackers could generate the meso to do the same. It would be the ONLY WAY TO GET THOSE ITEMS, and a lot of them will be bought in bulk. Inflation right now isn't even steeply on the incline. With the speed meso would be going out of the economy NX rates would fall faster within a month of this being out than the ratio has increased in the past month. (and the ratio increasing hasn't even been because of inflation, just because of p.cubes)

Lets look at the banter between us. First i pointed out why your suggestion would be pointless with logical reasons.

second, you were a twat about it.

third i was a twat in a return.

fourth you proceed to be a hypocrite about being a twat.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Good f'ucking luck.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Really... What?


Did you have an imaginary conversation with me or something?

Yeah and put the guild style merchanting on auto-pilot. To any affluent group of people who have a damn clue or ounce of foresight, this is free money unless scrolls bought are untradeable. There needs to be limits on how many one can buy for this to work at all that or the untradeable solution which is also terrible.

Anyone can buy scrolls for the same price. The only way merchants win is if they can get it for cheaper - which relies on two things.
1) limited supply. There are only a finite number of cheap scrolls available, once the merchants buy them they're all gone, and people have to pay higher prices if they still want more scrolls.
2) difficulty of finding item sellers. Merchants spend more time in FM = more opportunities to buy cheap scrolls.

If you make scrolls available from an NPC for a fixed price, then the only time merchants "win" is if that price rises. Then they can dump their stockpiled scrolls - which has an immediate effect on the NPC price. Nobody's going to pay 10mil from the NPC when merchants have thousands of scrolls available at 9.5mil each - so the NPC gets ignored until its price drops back below the merchants. At which point, the merchant still has hundreds of scrolls, but they can only sell them at a loss until the NPC's price rises again.

It doesn't eliminate the merchants' profit entirely, but it does get rid of huge undercuts - if someone finds a scroll, and checks the scroll NPC to see that it sells for 10mil, then they're gonna go to FME and S> scroll 9.5mil. They're not gonna go herp derp, merchant says it's 3mil, and lose 7mil of profit unknowingly cause it's too hard to price check things. If they do sell for 3mil, it'll be because they have some extreme need to get rid of it, and make money fast.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Really... What?


Did you have an imaginary conversation with me or something?

Yep I must have.

Anyone can buy scrolls for the same price. The only way merchants win is if they can get it for cheaper - which relies on two things.
1) limited supply. There are only a finite number of cheap scrolls available, once the merchants buy them they're all gone, and people have to pay higher prices if they still want more scrolls.
2) difficulty of finding item sellers. Merchants spend more time in FM = more opportunities to buy cheap scrolls.

If you make scrolls available from an NPC for a fixed price, then the only time merchants "win" is if that price rises. Then they can dump their stockpiled scrolls - which has an immediate effect on the NPC price. Nobody's going to pay 10mil from the NPC when merchants have thousands of scrolls available at 9.5mil each - so the NPC gets ignored until its price drops back below the merchants. At which point, the merchant still has hundreds of scrolls, but they can only sell them at a loss until the NPC's price rises again.

It doesn't eliminate the merchants' profit entirely, but it does get rid of huge undercuts - if someone finds a scroll, and checks the scroll NPC to see that it sells for 10mil, then they're gonna go to FME and S> scroll 9.5mil. They're not gonna go herp derp, merchant says it's 3mil, and lose 7mil of profit unknowingly cause it's too hard to price check things. If they do sell for 3mil, it'll be because they have some extreme need to get rid of it, and make money fast.

The goal was never to get rid of merchanting I'm just point out that it creates an auto pilot style of merching which would encourage botting while simultaneously not fixing any problems that the thread is "addressing". And it's profitability is all relative at any rate. It is at this point a non existing thing. I'm just pointing out how this doesn't fix botting.

Personally, as a Chinese I don't like where this is going. However, I can not denial the fact that there are so many Chinese hackers throughout the game. There should be stuff to be done about them. Back in China there are tons of hackers hacking in every single game, so it's not just Maplestory. I agree what Stereo said. It's all about 'Supply' , 'Demand' and Price. "Nobody's going to pay 10mil from the NPC when merchants have thousands of scrolls available at 9.5mil each" (Stereo)

Yep I must have.

Yeah, I see our conversation, but what you described it as doesn't fit.

Personally, as a Chinese I don't like where this is going.

Excuse me for being ignorant, but what does that have to do with anything? O_o

Yeah, I see our conversation, but what you described it as doesn't fit.

Yeah i counted a bit wrong. I didn't actually go back and check anything i just right clicked post numbers, sue me. The important point (something you have a fun interesting habit of avoiding by pretending unimportant details are suddenly more important than the topic and proceeding to be a twat about them) is that there was twattery and you started it.

Excuse me for being ignorant, but what does that have to do with anything? O_o

I think every time you use the word hacker the word chinese has an 80%+ chance of appearing infront of it. It's kind of disconcerting. I think that's what he's getting at.


[sarcasm]Please point out how i made up that percentage. It is after all the important part as well as a strong summation of the main idea of my posts to this point.[/sarcasm]

Excuse me for being ignorant, but what does that have to do with anything? O_o

Excuse me for being offended by the title of this thread. =S

Excuse me for being offended by the title of this thread. =S

oh i was right! success!

Yeah i counted a bit wrong. I didn't actually go back and check anything i just right clicked post numbers, sue me. The important point (something you have a fun interesting habit of avoiding by pretending unimportant details are suddenly more important than the topic and proceeding to be a twat about them) is that there was twattery and you started it.



I think every time you use the word hacker the word chinese has an 80%+ chance of appearing infront of it. It's kind of disconcerting. I think that's what he's getting at.


[sarcasm]Please point out how i made up that percentage. It is after all the important part as well as a strong summation of the main idea of my posts to this point.[/sarcasm]

Yay... pointing fingers and saying "you started it." How mature.

Excuse me for being offended by the title of this thread. =S

If you guys can figure out another way to describe Chinese Hackers, please tell me. "Hacker" doesn't really fit, because hackers do all sorts of stuff. Chinese Hackers are those who vac-hack maps all day every day, KS people out of maps so they can hack it, cuss at people and defame them if they even enter the map, and monopolize the market.

Really, I made this thread most specifically with the Japanese version of Maple in mind, because I have no idea if they still exist in the US version. I'm sure they do, but I don't want to assume they do. If you were to take a stroll in JMS, all you would see in most maps are Chinese Hackers on their Evans and Soul Masters farming the hell out of monsters that have even the slightest profitable drop. It's become a joke in JMS for the JPs to run around saying "cao ni ma" because that's all the Chinese yell at anyone when someone enters a map they're hacking in.

Yay... pointing fingers and saying "you started it." How mature.

You asked for an explanation, i gave you one. How you "feel" about is up to you.

If you guys can figure out another way to describe Chinese Hackers, please tell me. "Hacker" doesn't really fit, because hackers do all sorts of stuff. Chinese Hackers are those who vac-hack maps all day every day, KS people out of maps so they can hack it, cuss at people and defame them if they even enter the map, and monopolize the market.

Really, I made this thread most specifically with the Japanese version of Maple in mind, because I have no idea if they still exist in the US version. I'm sure they do, but I don't want to assume they do. If you were to take a stroll in JMS, all you would see in most maps are Chinese Hackers on their Evans and Soul Masters farming the hell out of monsters that have even the slightest profitable drop. It's become a joke in JMS for the JPs to run around saying "cao ni ma" because that's all the Chinese yell at anyone when someone enters a map they're hacking in.

They are all chinese too. All of them. Also the only Chinese players must be hackers right?

^that's the impression you give off.

In reality just "hackers" works fine we will understand what you mean. If you want to describe what the hackers are doing more accurately use words like botter or descriptions of the hacks themselves, not a nationality. It seems like you are worried about fixing their nationality before the legitimacy of their gameplay. I can see how people would be offended by it. I'm a little surprised how far you take this stereotype you've developed at times myself.

Or are we mistaken and you cross examine every hacker you happen across? Nay, ever hacker as well as every Chinese player in JMS? If that's the case then i am prepared to be shocked and give you the go ahead to carry on at full steam.

The problem he has is that you are stereotyping and putting it ahead of a problem. The rest of us just don't care enough about the stereotype to put it ahead of the topic. Or we take your word for it. This is probably because we aren't Chinese.

They are all chinese too. All of them. Also the only Chinese players must be hackers right?

^that's the impression you give off.

In reality just "hackers" works fine. It seems like you are worried about fixing their nationality before the legitimacy of their gameplay. I can see how people would be offended by it. I'm a little surprised how far you take this stereotype you've developed at times myself.

Or are we mistaken and you cross examine every hacker you happen across? Nay, ever hacker as well as every Chinese player in JMS.

The problem he has is that you are stereotyping and putting it ahead of a problem. The rest of us just don't care enough about the stereotype to put it ahead of the topic. Or we take your word for it. This is probably because we aren't Chinese.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Not once, ANYWHERE did I say only Chinese players, or that all Chinese players are hackers. I said Chinese Hackers are a different type of hackers that can't exactly be associated with the other Hackers. Hackers can't be stopped.

I understand how you feel right now. It's not right to hack a game that we are in love with. However, you have to understand the fact that over 80%+ of Chinese dislike Japanese.(not kidding) They will never forget the fact that Japanese imperalized China last century. They've been tought to hate, to dislike the Japanese. =S I know it's wrong and all that, I hope you realize that, it's not just about game issue; this is a moral issue that you are facing. Not to be rude or anything, that's the way it is right now.

I understand how you feel right now. It's not right to hack a game that we are in love with. However, you have to understand the fact that over 80%+ of Chinese dislike Japanese.(not kidding) They will never forget the fact that Japanese imperalized China last century. They've been tought to hate, to dislike the Japanese. =S I know it's wrong and all that, I hope you realize that, it's not just about game issue; this is a moral issue that you are facing. Not to be rude or anything, that's the way it is right now.

That's still completely irrelevant to the point. :X

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Not once, ANYWHERE

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Not once, ANYWHERE did i say that you did.

It still comes off that way in your posts even your last one. Which i am about to point out to you as a specific example. And then i'm done this issue in the topic as it is a pretty big tangent and the main idea of this topic was a good one.

did I say only Chinese players, or that all Chinese players are hackers.

As i said it's just the impression you give off. You're about to do it again, keep reading.

I said Chinese Hackers are a different type of hackers that can't exactly be associated with the other Hackers. Hackers can't be stopped.

GODDAMN YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THEIR NATIONALITY THIS IS RETARDED. YOU JUST KEEP DOING IT THOUGH. LOOK AT YOUR OWN WORDS THEY ARE RIGHT THERE. You can't possibily know that all of these "special" hackers are Chinese. It's a stereotype with no basis. You can just drop the Chinese it has no relevant context for the rest of us (or you for that matter). It's just a touch of borderline hate-speech flavor.

F'uck this.

This thread turned bad. It's not going anywhere

That's still completely irrelevant to the point. :X

I am just trying to put some fact on the field. I think this is what most of those (Chinese) hackers think. Also, hopping someone would change the title of this thread. =x