Yet another Federal Judge rules Obamacare Unconstitutional.

Do you realize the degree to which this makes you sound like someone who's never had a day of true want in their life?
Some people don't have the choices and freedoms you may take for granted because they cost.

By that same token though, many of the younger generation believe that everything should just be given to them without having to work for it.

Its a myth that the heathcare bill prevents denial of coverage for preexisting conditions. Insurance companies just need to pay a $2000 fee to deny you. Also, its your's and your parent's job to negotiate a health insurance plan to fit your own personal needs, not the government's. If you want to be on your parent's healthcare plan throughout college, then your parents should get one that allows you (my parents obtained this sort of plan).
In the event that the law limits your choices, then that specific law needs to change, but we dont need to have Obamacare.

My parents are in no position to get a different healtcare plan. My mom had to wait 4 years to get her currently plan, and it is VERY basic and is all we can afford. My father is on disability* and has healthcare though the state government. My healthcare is also though the state because of my father, but as I said, it ends when I am 18. Perhaps if my mother could afford a better plan that covered me in my college years, this could be a viable option, but she cannot. We need some reform of the system; Obamacare tried. Are the republicans trying to repeal the bill going to try to reform healthcare after they repeal the bill? Or are we going to continue with this system that is flawed (Not saying any system will have NO flaws, but it could have less)? A government option that is affordable would help many people, including myself. I don't agree with healthcare being forced on people, but we need a lot of the other changes this bill introduced.

* To elaborate: He has Retinitis Pigmentosa; more specifically, Usher syndrome. No one will hire him with his condition, even though he desperately wants to work. So please do not comment on that he is "lazy" or "leeching off the government."

By that same token though, many of the younger generation believe that everything should just be given to them without having to work for it.

It's not 'just being given it' when you're paying money into it in the form of taxes, though.
It's not like anyone here is saying they should be handed a house, car and food for life without ever having to work a day.
We're talking about a basic human right that most civilized countries already have effectively managed.

Are the republicans trying to repeal the bill going to try to reform healthcare after they repeal the bill?

Supposedly, yes.

It's not 'just being given it' when you're paying money into it in the form of taxes, though.
It's not like anyone here is saying they should be handed a house, car and food for life without ever having to work a day.
We're talking about a basic human right that most civilized countries already have effectively managed.

I understand that. The statement was ment to be generalized. That said, it is being given to those who also do not pay into the system in the form of taxes and are here illegally, because it is all encompassing. That is one of the problems I have with this bill.

That said, it is being given to those who also do not pay into the system in the form of taxes and are here illegally, because it is all encompassing.

Already true of the system today, so this doesn't really change that. No point in punishing those in need who this stands to help over parasites (from your perspective) that already exist anyway. At least with this in place some of what you're already spending to support people will go to the people you actually feel better about getting it.

Already true of the system today, so this doesn't really change that. No point in punishing those in need who this stands to help over parasites (from your perspective) that already exist anyway. At least with this in place some of what you're already spending to support people will go to the people you actually feel better about getting it.

This is only true to a point. This bill, in its current form, will worsen the already hurt economy by putting an even tighter strain on the states, many of whom have already stated this bill would in fact bankrupt them. More than half of the nation is against the bill as it is. The bill in its current form is unconstitutional in nature though and if nothing else, that should be enough reason to repeal it and find a better method.

This bill, in its current form, will worsen the already hurt economy by putting an even tighter strain on the states, many of whom have already stated this bill would in fact bankrupt them.

I don't necessarily buy this. For one thing more people will be paying into insurance overall and the spread of available funds and associated cost of care should all decrease to some extent based on the increased availability of preventatives before things become more expensive and serious and again, more healthy people contributing.

It's hard for me to give my honest input on the situation. I believe the US healthcare system is severly flawed. Here in Canada I pay a LOT more for taxes. Sales tax is 13% and it's never hidden, and I pay 30% of my income to my different taxes. For any american who's never payed that much in taxes, it probably seems like a lot. To me, I've been living with this tax since I entered the workforce 3 yers ago, so it's at no loss to me. If anything, sales tax has dropped 2% since I started working.

Every employer who hires a permanent employee, or a contract employee for a term longer than 1 calendar year, must provide basic coverage on perscriptions, and visual/dental (80%, direct billed, I believe). My braces aren't covered, as they're considered (in the government's eyes) to be cosmetic, even though my dentist, and orthodontist have both deemed them required to prevent dental problems later in life (plus who doesn't love a nice straight smile?). I'm paying for those out of pocket. I know what it's like to have monthly healthcare bills, trust me. 180$ a month for my teeth, just to realign them, is quite expensive.

I'm currently on a 6 month contract, switching to permanent at the end (hopefully), meaning I have no perscription/dental coverage until April. Thank god, I don't need any type of perscription medication until then. I do, however, understand what it's like to be uninsured. I'm sure I could find my own health insurance through a 3rd party company, but since I'm a huge procrastinator, and I haven't used my insurance more than twice in 3 years, the premium wouldn't justify the coverage. I have 1000$ in a locked bank account that can only be used for medical expenses (prescriptions/dental fees).

That being said, hospital expenses are a LOT different here in Canada. A large portion of that 30% tax rate goes towards medicare. Medicare is a government regulated health insurance which covers all hospital expenses, except things like the canteen (obviously ). This prooves to be invaluable, as anyone in Canada who has a SIN number (Same as an SSN) can have one, free.

Americans might gripe at the idea, but when my grandmother had breast cancer, her treatment was free. When they suspected my mother had a tumor the size of a cigarette lighter over her left ear, the cat scans/MRIs were free. When my grandfather needed open heart and a pacemaker, it was free. If it hadn't have been, I'm not sure if they would still even be around today.

I'm not sure if it's the same in the US, but all diabetic supplies my grandfather needs are also free under Medicare.

They say our wait times must be rediculous, but comparing my hospital to things I've seen on Sicko (I take all Michael Moore films with a grain of salt) if the wait times are even half as bad in the US as shown on the movie, then Canada has an amazingly low wait time. When I broke my wrist, I was in, examined, casted, and out, all within 2 hours, the only expense I incurred was a cab fair there and back, and a whining baby who was most likely callic...

Granted, my local hospital isnt as ""hightech" as the nice ones you see on ER shows, and House, the "rooms" are seperated by curtain, and the paint colors are old, and look terrible, but overall the hospital is nice, and very clean.

Canada might not have the perfect solution to universal healthcare, but I honestly and genuinely believe its eons ahead of the American system. For that very reason, I will never work/live/visit south of the border.

PS: As an unrelated aside thought, I love your profile pic Eosian

I don't necessarily buy this. For one thing more people will be paying into insurance overall and the spread of available funds and associated cost of care should all decrease to some extent based on the increased availability of preventatives before things become more expensive and serious and again, more healthy people contributing.

In theory yes. However, for an extremely large portion of the population, people can barely afford to live. This will only add an expense to an already tight budget. The fact that keeps getting dodged here though is that the bill IS unconstitutional. The constitution is the one thing that we all have to follow when making new laws. This bill flies right in the face of that fact.

Do you realize the degree to which this makes you sound like someone who's never had a day of true want in their life?
Some people don't have the choices and freedoms you may take for granted because they cost.

You're rather short sighted. I already addressed the issue of cost in earlier posts. Laws do need to be changed to allow for more competition, and to lower the costs. And of course, like with every other post you've made trying to refute my statements, you ignored my last sentence that stated that when the law gets in the way of people making choices that the law should be changed, and my previous posts state why and how.

My parents are in no position to get a different healtcare plan. My mom had to wait 4 years to get her currently plan, and it is VERY basic and is all we can afford. My father is on disability* and has healthcare though the state government. My healthcare is also though the state because of my father, but as I said, it ends when I am 18. Perhaps if my mother could afford a better plan that covered me in my college years, this could be a viable option, but she cannot. We need some reform of the system; Obamacare tried. Are the republicans trying to repeal the bill going to try to reform healthcare after they repeal the bill? Or are we going to continue with this system that is flawed (Not saying any system will have NO flaws, but it could have less)? A government option that is affordable would help many people, including myself. I don't agree with healthcare being forced on people, but we need a lot of the other changes this bill introduced.

* To elaborate: He has Retinitis Pigmentosa; more specifically, Usher syndrome. No one will hire him with his condition, even though he desperately wants to work. So please do not comment on that he is "lazy" or "leeching off the government."

By law, 18 is when you become an adult and by law when you are suppose to be responsible for yourself.

Aside from that, I already explained in previous posts how the system should be reformed to lower prices and increase the avalible choices to the people.That would include tort reform and allowing competition between insurance companies by allowing them to compete over state lines. Its nice that Obamacare "tried" but it didnt do a thing to fix the real problems with the healthcare system and only created more problems.

Also, I no longer know what those republicans are trying to do, but I can say that unless at least 2/3s of the Senate and the House want to repeal healthcare, this will be no more than a publicity stunt, because we all know Obama will veto any attempt to repeal his promise breaking Obamacare.

I couldnt agree more with you StringStrider. I personally have not had health insurance for a very long time. When I did have it, I really never used it.

If anything, I think the US system should rework the healthcare into more of a Canadian system.

At first, the higher taxes will make people hate it, but just like the entrance of Dual Blades, some people will never be pleased. Once the initial "OMG MOAR TACKZESSSSSS" phase passes (a couple years at most) and people adjust to a slightly lower paycheck, then it won't be as big a deal, and everyone would be happy.

Sure, it can be a tad disheartening seeing that my paycheck is around 700, but I only get about 500 after taxes (I'm paid weekly), but the fact that if I get sick, I'm still safe, reassures me that I will be ok.

By law, 18 is when you become an adult and by law when you are suppose to be responsible for yourself.

That is a very arrogant, and selfish way to put things.

If by law, 18 is when you become an adult, then you are basically singling out college/university students, who shouldn't HAVE to work while they are focusing on their studies. Unfortunately, I'm one of those few who will have to work while in school, just to survive, and hope to somehow scrounge a better life for myself out of it. This is in no way a "pity me" speech, but I do wish to convey that I understand exactly what Mira is saying.

Hypothetically, if your grandmother became deathly ill, and was of an older/post-retirement age, you should in theory let her die, because by your logic "She's over 18 and should be able to fend for herself". The lack of passion I see everyday, and the sheer selfishness I see in the American system really leaves me in a state of unrest. Sure Communism has been proven to not work, but helping out others should be something you do by instinct.

What goes around comes around, and I wish you the best when what comes around hits you in the face.

I couldnt agree more with you StringStrider. I personally have not had health insurance for a very long time. When I did have it, I really never used it.

Quoting for posterity; StringStrider has socialized health care, paid for by taxes.

They say our wait times must be rediculous, but comparing my hospital to things I've seen on Sicko (I take all Michael Moore films with a grain of salt) if the wait times are even half as bad in the US as shown on the movie, then Canada has an amazingly low wait time. When I broke my wrist, I was in, examined, casted, and out, all within 2 hours, the only expense I incurred was a cab fair there and back, and a whining baby who was most likely callic...

I dont think Amerca's waiting times are that bad, but it the waiting times will vary from place to place. From my experience, sually 30-60 minutes at most for non-urgent care. In the case of urgent care, I did not have to wait for examination at my Hospital. Although, the fact that some areas may not have a satisfactory waiting time doesnt mean that the entire system needs reform. It just means that certain hospitals need to expand their facillities to accomidate more people.

http://blogsforvictory.com/2010/12/18/wi...tant-lies/
And obviously Moore isnt the best... source of information.

Anyway, we dont need to pay 30% of our paycheck to the government, especially when healthcare could be far cheaper if it is left to the free market.

I dont think Amerca's waiting times are that bad, but it the waiting times will vary from place to place. From my experience, sually 30-60 minutes at most for non-urgent care. In the case of urgent care, I did not have to wait for examination at my Hospital. Although, the fact that some areas may not have a satisfactory waiting time doesnt mean that the entire system needs reform. It just means that certain hospitals need to expand their facillities to accomidate more people.

http://blogsforvictory.com/2010/12/18/wi...tant-lies/
And obviously Moore isnt the best... source of information.

Regardless, I often hear Americans complaining about Canadian wait times as a downside of socialised healthcare when they're absolutely no different than your wait times.

Regardless, I often hear Americans complaining about Canadian wait times as a downside of socialised healthcare when they're absolutely no different than your wait times.

It probably varies. Some hospitals have shorter waiting periods than others due to several factors.

Edit: after looking up some statistics, looks like America is faster than Canada on average:

Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 42% of Canadians waited 2 hours or more in the emergency room, vs. 29% in the U.S.; 57% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, vs. 23% in the U.S., but Canadians had more chances of getting medical attention at nights, or on weekends and holidays than their American neighbors without the need to visit an ER (54% compared to 61%).[58] Statistics from the Canadian free market think tank Fraser Institute in 2008 indicate that the average wait time between the time when a general practitioner refers a patient for care and the receipt of treatment was almost four and a half months in 2008, roughly double what it had been 15 years before.[59

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_...ted_States

But obviously there are other factors involved and other statistics mentioned.

Yeah, Canada probably has less doctors in the ER on average than the US does which translates to longer wait times. I live in Quebec, and I know that we have a severe Doctor and Nurse shortage, simply because many of the new doctors either go to other provinces (notably Alberta) and the US. Our provincial government even tried a PR campaign to notify the public of how badly we need new trained doctors.
Doesn't help that even within the province itself, the doctors are moving towards the private sector...

disclaimer: I havent bothered to read all the arguments yet, but this is my POV of the Australian medicare scheme.

In Australia, this is how it roughly works when it comes to healthcare. You work, you pay tax. There are brackets that determines how much you pay. An average person usually pay around 30% of their wages to tax (lets not going into deductions etc).

One of the thing you have to pay is the "Medicare levy", which is standard to everyone, and if you earn < 50k pa, then you do not have to pay excess. Otherwise, you need to pay 0.05% extra if you earn > 50k. Now, if you get private health insurance with hospital cover, then you're exempted from the extra levy.

Every Australian resident has a "Medicare card". This card covers things like doctor visits, etc. It also covers a portion of some medical expenses, eg if you broke your arm, you may claim around 60% of your expenses back.

There is another card calls the "Healthcare card", which can be obtained if you pass certain criterion. This card allows you to buy medicines at a discounted rate (subjected to the government subsidy scheme). There are many meds that a healthcare card holder can buy for like $3, whereas I would have to pay around $30. Anyhow, the subsidy is quite significant.

Then, you have your private insurance card, which you have certain benefits. With private health, I can visit the dentist twice a year for general cleanup for free. It can subsidize a huge amount of my optical spending, chiro, etc. The extra with hospital cover option is so that you can go to a private hospital in case anything happens to you, over a public hospital. I pay approximately $60/month for my coverage plan.

With a Medicare card however, you may go to a public hospital without the need to pay any extras most of the time. The only problem with public hospital is that it can be slow. I recently took someone to the emergency room and she got examined, put on the drip and (should have been) seen by a doctor. All are being covered by Medicare.

Maybe if they were able to regulate other costs such as prescription drugs and things that hospitals completely overcharge for, things would be more affordable for the general public.

Maybe if they were able to regulate other costs such as prescription drugs and things that hospitals completely overcharge for, things would be more affordable for the general public.

Unfortunately, since the RnD of medicine costs so much, the overpaid researchers, the cost of clinical trials, marketing, and production, even including the fact that capitalist North America (Notice how I'm including Canada in this too) loves their money, this won't happen.