Empress's Minions drop Lv.140 equips.

I'm probably just being nostalgic in where everyone had an equal shot at getting stuff instead of only the richest of the rich getting first crack at it.

You have to be rich anyway to run in the top bossing groups... It's not like unfunded characters get first crack at new boss-only equips anyway.

No, I understand that, but I'm talking about people who sell the stuff right off the bat and the only way your group can get "upgraded" is by buying it off your own group for retail.
I mean back when people did full on HT group runs for mastery books, it was more or less a "point" system whatnot, but nowadays, if MW30 drops from HT and someone in your group needs it, they need to either buy it for retail price from their group or they're SoL until Chaos comes out, unless they can solo HT on a regular basis.

That's where the convo pretty much went. They plan on selling the drops from day 1 of them downing the CE and/or her subordinate adds, and if people want the 140 equips as an "upgrade", they're forced to buy it off their own group.

I'm probably just being nostalgic in where everyone had an equal shot at getting stuff instead of only the richest of the rich getting first crack at it.

Point system and giving out splits are the same thing except with points you don't get paid up front. With splits you're saving up the mesos until you have enough to buy whatever you want. It's the same thing.

I'd even say splits are better because even when one runner already has every drop he needs he's not wasting his time running. In my group people get annoyed if you don't take your split.

Man, what ever happened to killing bosses for the drops to make your party / group stronger? Now it's all about getting the drops for the money.

I remember when people used to kill cZak for the helm to gear everyone up or kill HT / PB for MW30 for everyone, now it's just "Kill said bosses and sell the drops for money."

Well yeah. Back when there were those large runs, there wasn't the potential system so the drops were the drops. Right now, no vanilla equip drops are worth all that much since the potential is really what matters.

Ghost lettering. "I" was a mistake.

I don't know who either. I assumed marty had someone in mind, but i'm afraid urvin is our only choice?

Yeah i don't think it will be anywhere near as profitable as it used to be. Only way i could see it is if it dropped the more wanted 130 recipes. (pole arm, maybe bow)

I have no idea where exactly she's located. I'd assume in the very last map since that just seems to be tradition. Shouldn't be hard to find out though.

And yeah, i would enjoy the ADA. 40k range with it. <3

@ above: Yeah but meso is more important imo for buying % gear. At least if you run with the only group who kills the biggest bosses in the game you can make money towards buying the items that they sell.

Definitely no Urvin. I stand by that.

I think the Bow will be VERY valuable as Jump approaches. Katara, Polearm, Dagger, Claw, the standards will still be good, but again not as good as MW30 farming. We'll have to see how valuable those recipes are though as I think it's possible they could go for several hundred million.

If she's in Dark Ereve, that would make a very good segue into CE -> PB night runs.

Tristannnn; NoIntEvan I think is his IGN. 2nd strongest Evan currently in Khaini..he weaseled his way above me LOL I'm not sure on his level though

He may be strong but can he hit? At 15x, that's a no go.

No, I understand that, but I'm talking about people who sell the stuff right off the bat and the only way your group can get "upgraded" is by buying it off your own group for retail.
I mean back when people did full on HT group runs for mastery books, it was more or less a "point" system whatnot, but nowadays, if MW30 drops from HT and someone in your group needs it, they need to either buy it for retail price from their group or they're SoL until Chaos comes out, unless they can solo HT on a regular basis.

That's where the convo pretty much went. They plan on selling the drops from day 1 of them downing the CE and/or her subordinate adds, and if people want the 140 equips as an "upgrade", they're forced to buy it off their own group.

I'm probably just being nostalgic in where everyone had an equal shot at getting stuff instead of only the richest of the rich getting first crack at it.

I don't know what you're talking about "retail". Marty never sells to runners for retail. Back when we were doing early PB runs, we'd sell the mw30's for 500+ and to runners, after 3+ runs, for 200 flat. That's 60% off. Retail? Not at all. Back during czak's, we'd sell the helms for what, 300+? Idr the prices that well but to runners there'd be an easy 50% discount if you ran a couple times.

I haven't seen you on those runs so maybe that's where the confusion is but the more recent runs have always given discounts to the runners. But it's important to set up the market. When we have a monopoly on the items, it's straight up foolish to not milk that initially and get the market going and THEN after the squad is getting confirmed and the runners are learning the ropes, THEN we sell to runners. But exploring the in's and out's of a new, exceptionally difficult boss is not cheap, lots of apples and wheels are wasted in that pursuit, and recovering some of those losses is certainly a priority.

You have to be rich anyway to run in the top bossing groups... It's not like unfunded characters get first crack at new boss-only equips anyway.

Well for today's standards, that's true. Pre-potential standards, all you had to do was be able to survive HT's attacks regardless of your damage. Of course since Nexon is releasing very time limited bosses that require a high amount of DPM, it switched around entirely.

I don't know what you're talking about "retail". Marty never sells to runners for retail. Back when we were doing early PB runs, we'd sell the mw30's for 500+ and to runners, after 3+ runs, for 200 flat. That's 60% off. Retail? Not at all. Back during czak's, we'd sell the helms for what, 300+? Idr the prices that well but to runners there'd be an easy 50% discount if you ran a couple times.

I haven't seen you on those runs so maybe that's where the confusion is but the more recent runs have always given discounts to the runners. But it's important to set up the market. When we have a monopoly on the items, it's straight up foolish to not milk that initially and get the market going and THEN after the squad is getting confirmed and the runners are learning the ropes, THEN we sell to runners. But exploring the in's and out's of a new, exceptionally difficult boss is not cheap, lots of apples and wheels are wasted in that pursuit, and recovering some of those losses is certainly a priority.

The last HT run I was on with Marty was a 5man HT run, MW30 dropped and Nessarz? bought MW30 for full retail price, which was 900mil at the time, so this clearly changed very recently or something, but I'm going based on the last "group" HT run I was a part of, in where MW30 dropped.

Heh.
You guys sell your drops? If you attended the run and you want the drop and no one else wanted it, back here in Windia, you would get it for free. We'd just have a line for those who would loot.

Well for today's standards, that's true. Pre-potential standards, all you had to do was be able to survive HT's attacks regardless of your damage. Of course since Nexon is releasing very time limited bosses that require a high amount of DPM, it switched around entirely.




The last HT run I was on with Marty was a 5man HT run, MW30 dropped and Nessarz? bought MW30 for full retail price, which was 900mil at the time, so this clearly changed very recently or something, but I'm going based on the last "group" HT run I was a part of, in where MW30 dropped.

HT's a joke. When a boss is soloable i'd say the rules change a little.

No, I understand that, but I'm talking about people who sell the stuff right off the bat and the only way your group can get "upgraded" is by buying it off your own group for retail.
I mean back when people did full on HT group runs for mastery books, it was more or less a "point" system whatnot, but nowadays, if MW30 drops from HT and someone in your group needs it, they need to either buy it for retail price from their group or they're SoL until Chaos comes out, unless they can solo HT on a regular basis.

I'm probably just being nostalgic in where everyone had an equal shot at getting stuff instead of only the richest of the rich getting first crack at it.

As has been pointed out: in both instances, you are paying to get the equips.
In one instance, you pay directly; in the other, you are giving up potential profit in exchange for what you need.
There's no real difference.

Your last sentence is just ridiculous. The only people getting the 'first crack' at this boss are the richest of the rich. People like myself won't scratch Pink Bean, let alone Cygnus, anytime in the near future.

That's where the convo pretty much went. They plan on selling the drops from day 1 of them downing the CE and/or her subordinate adds, and if people want the 140 equips as an "upgrade", they're forced to buy it off their own group.

You know why they're planning that?
Because they'd be utter morons to do anything else.

Why would they be morons?
Two reasons:
- Their current equips.
- Supply and demand.

Here's the deal:
We've already established that only the richest-of-the-rich will be killing for these equips in a 'timely' manner.
These players tend to have near-perfect, though undoubtably godly, equips that are decked out with %-(primary stat), %-Ignore Def, %-Boss Damage, etc.

Now, let's say the bosses drop a weapon that matches one of the runner's class.
They have two options:
a) Replace their current weapon with it.
b) Sell it.

Let's say they want to go with option (a), keeping it:
They now have a weapon that has better base stats than anything they could have gotten previously.
Of course, it's still useless as it is since their current weapon is undoubtedly amazingly scrolled.
If it's a 2H Weapon, they now get to spend hundreds of millions scrolling it with Pinks and White Scrolls.
If it's a 1H Weapon, well, good pineappleing luck.

Let's say though, that you do have the means to scroll it perfectly. Guess what?
It still doesn't have Potential, and, even if you perfect a 140 weapon, it'll be subpar without Potential that at least matches what's on your current weapon.
...unfortunately, to even get lines on it, you're going to take a 10% risk of blowing it to hell.
Weapon gone. Run wasted.

Now let's take a look at option (b), selling it:
These equips will be brand-spanking new, and there likely will be no others on the market.
Rarity alone will easily make it worth 2bil+.
So you sell it and take the 2 billion; that's a lot of mesos that can easily be turned into NX or otherwise invested.

Now, you'll likely continue to go on runs with your group, and ya'll will get more and more 140 equips.
As you, and other groups, continue to run, more and more equips start entering the market.
Demand sticks as supply inflates, slowly lowering the price.

Eventually, that equip that you got a few months before will be half the starting price or less.
Now is when you buy one for yourself and use all the money you earned from your runs to ensure that your sexy 140 set beats out what you had before.

It's never worth it to switch to a new equipment set early.

HT's a joke. When a boss is soloable i'd say the rules change a little.

So you admit that everyone in our guild is full of greedy little bastards and they're only after the money even if it cripples their own group in the long run?
Also considering PB's a joke as well, doesn't that mean that PB's drops should be sold for full retail value as well?

@Viaje, fair enough. I used a bad example, but you're right on this point.

So you admit that everyone in our guild is full of greedy little bastards and they're only after the money even if it cripples their own group in the long run?
Also considering PB's a joke as well, doesn't that mean that PB's drops should be sold for full retail value as well?

@Viaje, fair enough. I used a bad example, but you're right on this point.

Maple warrior isn't a fair example because as long as one or two people have it in the boss run, everyone does. It is going to deflate after chaos guaranteed, which is why marty sells them off for full price. To get the money while it lasts.

Hell, after chaos, even i'll have max MW.

Maple warrior isn't a fair example because as long as one or two people have it in the boss run, everyone does. It is going to deflate after chaos guaranteed, which is why marty sells them off for full price. To get the money while it lasts.

Hell, after chaos, even i'll have max MW.

Pretty sure it'll inflate since nothing drops it, and the chances of getting it from a Secret Mastery Book is low as is SE20/30 etc.

Pretty sure it'll inflate since nothing drops it, and the chances of getting it from a Secret Mastery Book is low as is SE20/30 etc.

It constantly dropping from a hacked source and a half or less drop from a once solo-able boss vs chance to get it from literally anywhere? All the books have an equal chance of spitting stuff out afaik.

It'll obviously deflate. ._.

It constantly dropping from a hacked source and a half or less drop from a once solo-able boss vs chance to get it from literally anywhere? All the books have an equal chance of spitting stuff out afaik.

It'll obviously deflate. ._.

Not when we get the Jump update.

It constantly dropping from a hacked source and a half or less drop from a once solo-able boss vs chance to get it from literally anywhere? All the books have an equal chance of spitting stuff out afaik.

It'll obviously deflate. ._.

Deflation seems unlikely from the way spadow described the change:

But after that patch, it changed to boss monsters and regular monsters.

I’ve seen screenshots of people getting Maple Warrior 30 and Sharp Eyes 20 from it and they cost a lot in my server.
Be prepared because this change will most likely happen in your version sooner or later.

The next day, Nexon announced a minor patch and in that minor patch they removed the notices of the Treasure Monster drops and they nerfed the spawn.

Now I barely see any Treasure Monsters after the minor patch.
Thanks to Nexon I cannot get my Maple Warrior 30 book! >_<

- Mastery books are already a rare drop from regular mobs and treasure monsters had their spawn rate nerfed.

- Boss monsters now have random/secret mastery books.

With those two points in mind, I think it would be safer trying to get the needed books now rather than wait
to see how things go with chaos.

The last HT run I was on with Marty was a 5man HT run, MW30 dropped and Nessarz? bought MW30 for full retail price, which was 900mil at the time, so this clearly changed very recently or something, but I'm going based on the last "group" HT run I was a part of, in where MW30 dropped.

Now that was a completely different situation, that was 5 people doing a random run. Unlike a standardized HT group run were the same parties participate each week.In my organized runs I always offer my runners deals once we see the market price drop, usually 1-2 months after a release of a new item, may even be less with Empress if Nexon does NOTHING about the current BaM situation.

Now that was a completely different situation, that was 5 people doing a random run. Unlike a standardized HT group run were the same parties participate each week.In my organized runs I always offer my runners deals once we see the market price drop, usually 1-2 months after a release of a new item, may even be less with Empress if Nexon does NOTHING about the current BaM situation.

Wait, there's a current BaM problem? What's happening, is there some super hack that only BaMs can do that are killing monsters faster than the Fist of the North Star?

Now that was a completely different situation, that was 5 people doing a random run. Unlike a standardized HT group run were the same parties participate each week.In my organized runs I always offer my runners deals once we see the market price drop, usually 1-2 months after a release of a new item, may even be less with Empress if Nexon does NOTHING about the current BaM situation.

Oooooooooh, alright then. My bad Marty
Also what's the "BaM" problem? First time I've heard of it.

BaM and mages in general can boss fade and PG a boss to death for drops.

A little off-topic, but what exactly is the story behind the big dark Empress? Was she bad all along? Did Mr. Dark Magician corrupt her?

Deflation seems unlikely from the way spadow described the change:





- Mastery books are already a rare drop from regular mobs and treasure monsters had their spawn rate nerfed.

- Boss monsters now have random/secret mastery books.

With those two points in mind, I think it would be safer trying to get the needed books now rather than wait
to see how things go with chaos.

But you have to consider that

1) You can kill zakum twice a day for (i think) a guaranteed book.
2) CKPQ spits out books like crazy i think.
3) Something might happen in part 5 that changes this bleak outlook.

You have a ~1 in 200 chance of getting a specific book, even if they're all equal - maybe 1 in 30 of getting anything good. So that's 2 books a month if you zakum regularly, that are worth anything. 3 months to find the book you want. Plus you need to deal with muling roughly 60 crappy books per month, or selling them.

Course, it would be typical of Nexon to make the books you need less of (20) be more common than the books you need more of (30).