Death to the Bishops

Didn't the KMS staff say in an interview that the EXP ratio was changed BECAUSE of leechers? That and the ultimate cooldown should say something, don't you think? </typical anti-leecher comment>

I don't think mages will be killed. However, I do know that a lot of those who are too used to ultimate spamming and leech selling will (and already are) have a rage-fit. Having a Bishop myself, however, I'm looking forward to this. I like the idea of not simply ultimate-spamming for my levels and Priests might actually have an easier time to level with the Shining Ray buff (they did buff it, right? I forgot).

Didn't the KMS staff say in an interview that the EXP ratio was changed BECAUSE of leechers? That and the ultimate cooldown should say something, don't you think? </typical anti-leecher comment>

I don't think mages will be killed. However, I do know that a lot of those who are too used to ultimate spamming and leech selling will (and already are) have a rage-fit. Having a Bishop myself, however, I'm looking forward to this. I like the idea of not simply ultimate-spamming for my levels and Priests might actually have an easier time to level with the Shining Ray buff (they did buff it, right? I forgot).

I am excited too. Yes they boosted the power of SR, as well as Holy Arrow, Angel Ray, Bahamut, and Summon Dragon. It seems like they boosted Heal and Bless as well.

While I hate the hell out of bishops, and I hate their bandwagoned status. I feel truely sorry for their genesis nerf. I like CL and it's going to be much more useful at Chief Oblivion guardians since they're weak to lightning, and my blizzard is only at level 1, I don't care if it gets a 30 second cooldown lol.

It's just sad to see how many people only want genesis to be removed for their biased reasons. If you are going to hate on leech, please don't lecture other players on how they should play the game. This game supposedly was supposed to be ''YOUR STORY'' not ''THE STORY OF YOU HATING THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE PLAY THEIR STORY''. If people want to leech, why is it another persons buisiness? There are plenty of other things that ruin the economy yet I see less BAW about that. Now that they screwed up the party EXP formula because you guys just aren't happy with the leech protection. priests might actually be leveling signifigantly slower...decreasing the number of available priests for boss runs. Although this is more of a long term deal.

Of course they might also become stronger, in which case my pity for their genesis is null and void. But seriously people? The people who complain about leech sound more biased than the people who actually do leech. I really hope my class isn't pounded to dirt because of other peoples desire to ruin leech. as if it's any of their buisiness.

I've never complained about the ultimate cooldowns, I actually think it's a good thing. But people saying that Bishops should dedicate only to healing/buffing are the hell out of their minds.

Granted, before the leech patch it would had been acceptable. I would have lived just healing/buffing an attacker on Oblivion 4 or some crap like that, and I would only be gaining a little less experience than the attacker. Not good, but not horrible.

With leech patched, it doesn't only affect leechers, but support classes, cause we basically do nothing than buff and get lolhealexp. And what's the only full support class? The Cleric branch. Try playing a Cleric and be a healer at Windraiders party, it's horrible exp. It used to be good before, but now it makes you wanna vomit. You're better off healing undeads, which means playing solo. A support class playing solo, yes. Same with Himes, with the new leech ratio it's barely worth to party, if you got good equips you're better off soloing Himes. That's what I did at my last levels.

The way it is now, specially with the new leech ratio, Maple Story is not designed to make supporters enjoy supporting, or make a leveling out of supporting. If you full support basically you're doing everything for your party members while you get the lowest exp from all the jobs in the game.

Don't misunderstand me, I made my Bishop as a Cleric with no intentions of even getting to 4th job, I just liked the idea of healing and buffing. But that charm died as soon as the new leech ratio came. So I'm glad I got to 4th job as soon as I could, cause I could actually kill stuff myself, plus gain that sweet Holy Shield and Maple Warrior.

As MS stands now, Bishops just can't level up by supporting, so either:
a) They're gonna need some revamped mob attacks like Mages/Evans. No, Angel Ray won't cut it, and Shining Ray is weak.
b) They're gonna need a special exp gaining formula when leeching (supporting).

I've never complained about the ultimate cooldowns, I actually think it's a good thing. But people saying that Bishops should dedicate only to healing/buffing are the hell out of their minds.

Granted, before the leech patch it would had been acceptable. I would have lived just healing/buffing an attacker on Oblivion 4 or some crap like that, and I would only be gaining a little less experience than the attacker. Not good, but not horrible.

With leech patched, it doesn't only affect leechers, but support classes, cause we basically do nothing than buff and get lolhealexp. And what's the only full support class? The Cleric branch. Try playing a Cleric and be a healer at Windraiders party, it's horrible exp. It used to be good before, but now it makes you wanna vomit. You're better off healing undeads, which means playing solo. A support class playing solo, yes. Same with Himes, with the new leech ratio it's barely worth to party, if you got good equips you're better off soloing Himes. That's what I did at my last levels.

The way it is now, specially with the new leech ratio, Maple Story is not designed to make supporters enjoy supporting, or make a leveling out of supporting. If you full support basically you're doing everything for your party members while you get the lowest exp from all the jobs in the game.

Don't misunderstand me, I made my Bishop as a Cleric with no intentions of even getting to 4th job, I just liked the idea of healing and buffing. But that charm died as soon as the new leech ratio came. So I'm glad I got to 4th job as soon as I could, cause I could actually kill stuff myself, plus gain that sweet Holy Shield and Maple Warrior.

As MS stands now, Bishops just can't level up by supporting, so either:
a) They're gonna need some revamped mob attacks like Mages/Evans. No, Angel Ray won't cut it, and Shining Ray is weak.
b) They're gonna need a special exp gaining formula when leeching (supporting).

The new EXP formula will make it easier to train.

This marks goodbye to the era of mages that made their class purely to be able to sit in one spot and kill a map by pressing a button.

I, for one, am happy.

The new EXP formula will make it easier to train.

There is no new EXP formula. They just cut the EXP needed to level in half.

That is not a formula, so your answer is moot.

I've never complained about the ultimate cooldowns, I actually think it's a good thing. But people saying that Bishops should dedicate only to healing/buffing are the hell out of their minds.

Granted, before the leech patch it would had been acceptable. I would have lived just healing/buffing an attacker on Oblivion 4 or some crap like that, and I would only be gaining a little less experience than the attacker. Not good, but not horrible.

With leech patched, it doesn't only affect leechers, but support classes, cause we basically do nothing than buff and get lolhealexp. And what's the only full support class? The Cleric branch. Try playing a Cleric and be a healer at Windraiders party, it's horrible exp. It used to be good before, but now it makes you wanna vomit. You're better off healing undeads, which means playing solo. A support class playing solo, yes. Same with Himes, with the new leech ratio it's barely worth to party, if you got good equips you're better off soloing Himes. That's what I did at my last levels.

The way it is now, specially with the new leech ratio, Maple Story is not designed to make supporters enjoy supporting, or make a leveling out of supporting. If you full support basically you're doing everything for your party members while you get the lowest exp from all the jobs in the game.

Don't misunderstand me, I made my Bishop as a Cleric with no intentions of even getting to 4th job, I just liked the idea of healing and buffing. But that charm died as soon as the new leech ratio came. So I'm glad I got to 4th job as soon as I could, cause I could actually kill stuff myself, plus gain that sweet Holy Shield and Maple Warrior.

As MS stands now, Bishops just can't level up by supporting, so either:
a) They're gonna need some revamped mob attacks like Mages/Evans. No, Angel Ray won't cut it, and Shining Ray is weak.
b) They're gonna need a special exp gaining formula when leeching (supporting).

How much experience a class gets while doing is role is irrelevant to if its a support class or not, just because you level slower doesn't change you're role. What, you honestly expect to level fast while you're party members do the majority of the work? Drk's do not get any experience by raising their party members HP, yet we know why they are invited to parties.

Also, take it from Someone who has Solo'd as a Cleric from 42 all the way to 120, than remade after Aran, Party training is much better experience than Solo.

And how is his answer moot? It is a "new formula", and regardless of what you or I or some random dude on the street calls it, it makes leveling easier.


Clerics are given offensive skills so they can fend for them selfs and help the party kill if needed, it doesn't mean they are meant to be damage whoring everywhere and playing offense kings, Nightlords have a mobbing skills, but they are obviously not a "mobbing" class.

Also, since when did support mean just buffing? lmfao

There is no new EXP formula. They just cut the EXP needed to level in half.

That is not a formula, so your answer is moot.

Definiton of "EXP formula": Relation between ammounts of experience needed to reach the next level on each and everyone of the levels, thus creating what is called "EXP curve".

OH SNAP.

How much experience a class gets while doing is role is irrelevant to if its a support class or not, just because you level slower doesn't change your role. What, you honestly expect to level fast while you're party members do the majority of the work? Drk's do not get any experience by raising their party members HP, yet we know why they are invited to parties.

Define "majority of the work". For one, I do simultaneous Targar/Scar runs on my Bishop. I know Heal is not absolutely needed there, but that's my role. Attackers attack, and I keep them alive in case they fail to pot, and resurrect if the casual lag death happens. I don't get as much exp as attackers there (not like it's a lot anyway), but I'm happy with my role. That's there.

Now, we're talking about a balance patch. Balance. How is it balanced to party with a person, a supporter and an attacker, and have the attacker gain more than double the experience than the supporter. That's how it's now, and it's horrible. I know because I do support-only with my Bishop from time to time, when I got a friend lagging so he doesn't die or whatever. I get less than half EXP than the attacker, but that's fine, since I can also kill by myself otherwise. 60:40 would be a much better leech ratio for attackerupporter, I could accept that, but not 80:20, since first, it's not balanced, and second, that's zero motivation to party.

Also, take it from Someone who has Solo'd as a Cleric from 42 all the way to 120, than remade after Aran, Party training is much better experience than Solo.

Are you comparing party training as an Aran than soloing as a Cleric? Of course the Aran is faster. Heck, Arans are the faster levelers ever. I got from 60-70 in one day of party training.

And how is his answer moot? It is a "new formula", and regardless of what you or I or some random dude on the street calls it, it makes leveling easier.

It's moot because it's not a formula. What it does is cut a chunk of millions of EXP needed to level for EVERYONE. It won't help full supporters to catch up with attackers leveling speed. Imagine you just need 50% of what you need now to level. That's what it does. The way you gain exp in party by supporting/attacking doesn't change.

Define "majority of the work". For one, I do simultaneous Targar/Scar runs on my Bishop. I know Heal is not absolutely needed there, but that's my role. Attackers attack, and I keep them alive in case they fail to pot, and resurrect if the casual lag death happens. I don't get as much exp as attackers there (not like it's a lot anyway), but I'm happy with my role. That's there.

Majority of work in my case would be killing. If you want more experience, you should probably try helping the attackers kill. "Support" isn't just buffing and watching the battle going on.

Now, we're talking about a balance patch. Balance. How is it balanced to party with a person, a supporter and an attacker, and have the attacker gain more than double the experience than the supporter. That's how it's now, and it's horrible. I know because I do support-only with my Bishop from time to time, when I got a friend lagging so he doesn't die or whatever. I get less than half EXP than the attacker, but that's fine, since I can also kill by myself otherwise. 60:40 would be a much better leech ratio for attackerupporter, I could accept that, but not 80:20, since first, it's not balanced, and second, that's zero motivation to party.

Since when did a Balance Patch have to do with how much a character leeches off another players kill?

and how do you not have any motivation to party when exp rates of present day priest compared to Solo rates shows obviously which is better, often with Party rates going double what Solo rates are.

Are you comparing party training as an Aran than soloing as a Cleric? Of course the Aran is faster. Heck, Arans are the faster levelers ever. I got from 60-70 in one day of party training.

I'm not comparing an Aran, I suggest you read my post again.

It's moot because it's not a formula. What it does is cut a chunk of millions of EXP needed to level for EVERYONE. It won't help full supporters to catch up with attackers leveling speed. Imagine you just need 50% of what you need now to level. That's what it does. The way you gain exp in party by supporting/attacking doesn't change.

Read the above post.

Now if he said Party formula, it would be different.

Now, I agree that it's rather harsh for priest these days to get such reduced experience, however, the amount of experience they get doing said role is irrelevant, and doesn't change the main aspect of what the class is meant for. It hardly matters anyways, Party training is still better than solo training for Priest, as well as Bishops. Meaning you're whole point about "getting less experience means I'm not a party/support class" is moot.

and maybe my time as an Archmage has gotten me into a full "anti-bishop" mindset; even after playing 2 Bishops. But I just do not find it fair that a class that wasn't even doing a majority of the killing got almost half of the experience from my kills when I was on my Drk at himes.

How much experience a class gets while doing is role is irrelevant to if its a support class or not, just because you level slower doesn't change you're role. What, you honestly expect to level fast while you're party members do the majority of the work? Drk's do not get any experience by raising their party members HP, yet we know why they are invited to parties.

Also, take it from Someone who has Solo'd as a Cleric from 42 all the way to 120, than remade after Aran, Party training is much better experience than Solo.

And how is his answer moot? It is a "new formula", and regardless of what you or I or some random dude on the street calls it, it makes leveling easier.


Clerics are given offensive skills so they can fend for them selfs and help the party kill if needed, it doesn't mean they are meant to be damage whoring everywhere and playing offense kings, Nightlords have a mobbing skills, but they are obviously not a "mobbing" class.

Also, since when did support mean just buffing? lmfao

Definiton of "EXP formula": Relation between ammounts of experience needed to reach the next level on each and everyone of the levels, thus creating what is called "EXP curve".

OH SNAP.

Pretty much this. You guys just said it better.....

holy, don't do that again. "qft" without any content doesn't help anyone, no matter how it's said.

Why don't they just increase the EXP gained when you heal someone?

Gospel, you're best off arguing against brick wall. They won't bother trying to see why your side could even be slighty right. All that matters to them is that they believe they have a better argument than yours which makes their view correct, while yours is wrong (which is a logic failure at its finest).

As a support class, if everyone is gaining more than twice your exp and they outlevel you too much (which is easy when you gain 2x as much exp as someone else), you have to give up partying with those people. Those people will be off fighting harder things and possible bossing, while the support person is stuck in lower levels.

Even if the supporter tries to help attack then (not all of these, but some):
1) people will complain about the supporter not supporting
2) the supporter will probably be wasting time needed to ensure that everyone's buffs are on.
3) the supporter can't kill fast enough and probably didn't change the time it takes to kill that monster by much once an actual attacker gets there.

Even if the posters here deny this (because it's likely some of these things wont necessarily apply for the people here) it'll be different in actual gameplay when training with others in MS.



As a support class, it is not necessary to gain as much exp as the rest of the party members. But we should gain enough so that they don't end up outleveling us ridiculously easily.

It is true that partying with people will yield more exp than soloing on a bishop without gen spam. That I don't deny. But the rest of the party members will still be gaining more than 2x the exp of the support.

I've already stated that I agree that the party reduction was too much on Priest, but It doesn't change what the role of a Priest/Bishop is(which is highly support oriented) nor does it change which is overall better experience(Partying).However, I also disagree that Priest used to get almost half of what I got for killing, I think something along the lines of 70:30 would of been much more acceptable.

The problem with "support" in MapleStory is that they made the classes so self-suffiicent, there's not much for supporting classes to do. Everyone can heal their damn selves instantly, and buffs don't need refreshing unless they're dispelled. Everyone is just expected to do damage, and that's where supporting classes find themselves being quite useless.

Obvious ideas for how support classes can be improved:
- make monsters and bosses do much less damage and potion usage be limited (Dragon Rider PQ is a good example of this, but the boss still does a ton of damage)
- make bosses susceptible to curses beside Slow and Threaten. Remove Doom from Priests, add some sort of mini-stun that works on bosses?
- stop releasing NX pomegranate like Wheel of Fortune

Considering the priest or Bishop, is healing you and saving you pots. I'd say they deserve there fair share of the exp, when they run off to mob those Himes for you, they do deserve more than a petty 20% but, like Dusk has already said, Support classes are under rated and need to be altered for them to even stand a chance of being useful.

Shouri pretty much illustrated what I wanted to say. There is no balance on the the game if Bishops were to be full support. Why? Because compared to supporters, attackers will level two times as faster. In. Every. Single. Situation. It's not a hard concept to grasp, that's heavily unbalanced.

Remember the old Maple Days with lolpaladins? Say you could choose a Nightlord with Sharp Eyes buff, or a Paladin for a Zakum run. Who did you choose always? Nightlords. Yeah, that was heavily unbalanced, no way a Paladin would get even considered. Now Paladins got better damage plus Threaten, so they're also wanted a lot. Oh em gee, that just got a little more balanced. A current supporter:attacker party is not balanced. I seriously do love being support! I don't mind being 90% support, even 100% support, but I won't like it if I level half as fast as everyone else in the game because of that. It needs a lot of balancing, and I said the options: either Bishops get more leech exp, or they get better mob skills like Arch Mages and Evans.

I also disagree that Priest used to get almost half of what I got for killing, I think something along the lines of 70:30 would of been much more acceptable.

Why did you party with these priests then? Oh right, because they made you gain more experience than solo training. Not to mention they mobbed the whole map for you while you relaxed chatting with buddies, or that they saved you a ton of pots. Let them get 60:40, they got no other means to level. If it's 70:30, THEY are the ones that have no reasons to party you, since it's better to solo. I very clearly remember levels 100-120 as a Priest with the new leech. Training at party was roughly the same, if not worse, than soloing at Himes. The only reason to party was to trade 2x family buffs.

Maple Story just isn't designed for support classes. It's everyone attacking or nothing. They need to work on this a lot.
And come on, stopping support to attack at boss runs? zomg, I spammed Angel Ray the whole Targar and made the run 22 whole seconds faster! But I had to stop healing so a party member accidentally died. Psshh.

OHEMGEEE!! YES! I remember the mid 90's at himes as a priest - it sucked. Times like those are what drove me to quit MS. I did all the work, the DK sat there and had to press one button, and leveled like 9X faster than me. Mainly because I kept dying because I didn't have enough money to fund MG usage. SUK'D.
seriously tho, contrary to most I guess, I made my first char a priest because I love support classes, not high damage/KSing/genesis or w.e. Then I realized they don't exist in MS. Waste of my life.

holy, don't do that again. "qft" without any content doesn't help anyone, no matter how it's said.

Why don't they just increase the EXP gained when you heal someone?

I agree with this. Gospel, you never know...with the new teleport and boosted attacks, bishops could be leveling fast. Only thing is however, no one has posted a video of them training in KMST yet....