How thorns (dual blader) works

Do Arans always get the Thorns effect or is it only if they're below a certain combo? From the looks of it, Thorns only works if your inherit critical success is less than 35%. That's probably why it affects Evans but not NLs/Archers. Maybe for Buccs it applies only if the enemy isn't stunned.

Also, Thorns has suddenly re-sparked my interest in Evans.

It was already pretty well known that the effect is less for party members. It kinda just makes sense if they just decided to half the damage given.

That doesn't explain the video of a Bishop tripling his damage with it. Thorns wasn't even maxed in that video.

That doesn't explain the video of a Bishop tripling his damage with it. Thorns wasn't even maxed in that video.

It says Mages get a 2.24x multiplier (it's probably 2.5x since their tests hit the damage cap). Non-mages get 125%.

It says Mages get a 2.24x multiplier (it's probably 2.5x since their tests hit the damage cap). Non-mages get 125%.

Non mages includes evans or no? *Dumb question*

Non mages includes evans or no? *Dumb question*

Well, I meant to exclude Evans since they apparently get 125% added onto their regular critical, according to the comments on Insoya. So Evans would get 65% chance for 275% damage.

The farther away from damage cap we are, the more potential we have? Even if SE and Thorn works independently, that'd be great news enough for me.

Is there any word on how Adventurer Ring works with SE, and perhaps Thorn?

I don't get how can Nexon korea not understand how critical works and how this will tilt the balance between classes in strange ways.

I think it was meant to help classes that don't have natural crit, they just implemented it without taking certain things into consideration (Corsairs mostly).

I think it was meant to help classes that don't have natural crit, they just implemented it without taking certain things into consideration (Corsairs mostly).

I'm still struggling to understand why they need "help" when there was a bloody balance patch.

This would have been a million times better if it wasn't a party skill, lol.

This would have been a million times better if it wasn't a party skill, lol.

Especially since us Vipers are shafted again at bosses. ;X


*watches as Vipers become the #1 lowest spot on the Single Target DPS chart and everyone else becomes 5x as powerful*


Yep. Nexon hates Vipers.

Thorns doesn't affect NL??? O_O. Aren't heros and corsairs strong enough? That just makes everything unbalanced lol? Im sure thorns works on NL/BM. TEST IT.

What's there to test? It's on the official website published by the game masters that it does not work on Archers and Night Lord. This makes me want to leech my Dragon Knight more. They're going to be so freaking strong.

What's there to test? It's on the official website published by the game masters that it does not work on Archers and Night Lord. This makes me want to leech my Dragon Knight more. They're going to be so freaking strong.

Ew @ leeching.

Jokes aside, is there any particular reason as to why Drks would be better and not warriors as a whole? Aside from the fact that they hit the lowest numbers.

Ew @ leeching.

Jokes aside, is there any particular reason as to why Drks would be better and not warriors as a whole? Aside from the fact that they hit the lowest numbers.

Since Berserk doubles damage (including crits), Crusher effectively hits 6 times per use. Even though Brandish and Blast are faster, they hit only 2 and 1 times respectively. It'll help all the warriors, but it'll help DrKs the most. And as a sidenote, people really overestimate Heroes. They're not really that great.

And yeah, this'll make Corsairs crazy strong. But that doesn't really matter at all since the Dual Blader will still be much stronger. Seriously, they're broken.

Sure people will be stronger with it at bosses, but you still have to train without it. Dual bladers aren't gonna party with warriors at skeles or something.

So, Thorns and SE Stack! Thats good. Also Blader can wear MoN's hopefully, since they are Adventurers .

Hmm nice to a See a Blader with a 135+ ATT Dagger, MW30, Cider, SE, Echo, MoN, Wep ATT Face, Wep att Glasses, Wep Adventurer Ring, Lilin Ring and of course the Normal Gear. :-)

Since Berserk doubles damage (including crits), Crusher effectively hits 6 times per use. Even though Brandish and Blast are faster, they hit only 2 and 1 times respectively. It'll help all the warriors, but it'll help DrKs the most. And as a sidenote, people really overestimate Heroes. They're not really that great.

And yeah, this'll make Corsairs crazy strong. But that doesn't really matter at all since the Dual Blader will still be much stronger. Seriously, they're broken.

Oh my bad, I assume the crit multiplier is applied before Zerk's 200%, so our benefits should be doubled:
(x + 1.25) * 2 = Thorn-crit damage = 2x + 2.5
(y + 1.25) = y +1.25

Is this correct?

Another question, is Drk's damage with Thorns supposed to be (170% + 125%) * 2 or (100% + 125%) * 1.7 * 2. According to Russt's order of operation, skill modifiers get applied before crit bonuses.

Oh, so thorns only affects people without a base critical? Sounds fair.

I just hope that if we NLs get to fall below the line of DPS classes because of that stuff, we at least get a little boost on training to even it out. Ironing should affect everyone, right? And don't tell me SE make us overpowered. We are average without it, and now things even it out more with thorns.

Here is some math assuming thorns doesn't work on NLs/BMs and Critical Ring stacks with se and thorns. Also SE NOT STACKING WITH THORNS.

This is just skill % but you have to take Range * Skill % * Speed = DPS

Hero with se no ring=1068% we all know that
Hero with thorns + ring= (260+125+10)*0.45 + (260*0.55)=320.75%
320.75*2*1.9=1218%

For battleship:
Corsair with se no ring=1924%
Corsair with thorns+ring= (380+125+10)*0.45 + (380*0.55)=440.75%
440.75*4*1.2=2115%

Rapid Fire:
Corsair with se no ring=265% <--new balance patch thing.
Corsair with thorns+ring= (200+125+10)*0.45 + (200*0.55)=260.75%
260*1.2=312%
Now that is a good boost. ACTUALLY CRAZY WOW.....................F5
K so on battleship its not a big boost but on rapid fire its a crazy boost. WOW AMAZING. Dam..........Their dmg will be close to NLs very close...........tats not good lol.

Night Lords with se no ring=1377% we all know that.
Night Lords with se + ring= (150+100+140+10)*0.75 + (0.55*150)=337.5%
337.5*3*1.5=1518%
see even without thorns NL still get a good boost. But Heros and Corsairs get a bigger boost with thorns and ring together. But Rapid Fire is just mad mad strong now really..........

I am too lazy to show my math for the below ones but im sure you guys can figure it out. NOT HARD LOL.

Bowmasters with se no ring= 232%
BM with se + ring = 262%
That is a good boost but not as much as rapid fire.

Dark Knights with se no ring=1146%
DK with thorns+ring=1384%
Wow this is a pretty good too. NOT AS GOOD AS RAPID FIRE. F5

I am just angry that Corsairs get such huge boost. Even if they aren't on ship 100% of the time. Their dmg will still be almost as high as NL.

Here is an example.
NL range=17100
Corsair range=14800
Both of these ranges are calculated using similar funded equips. NL obviously have higher range b/c of TT 5 * multiplier instead of 3.6 for Corsairs.
NL DPS with se and no ring=17100*0.75*13.77*100/60=294k
NL DPS with se + ring= 17100*0.75*15.18*100/60=324k
Rapid Fire DPS with se and no ring= 14800*0.77*2.65*500/60=251k
Rapid Fire DPS with se + ring= 14800*0.77*3.12*500/60=296k

NL=324k
RF=296k
The difference is NOTHING.
Corsairs are mad mad strong now..............

What I want to know is DOES CRITICAL RING STACK WITH THORNS???? Cause if it does then im quitting maybe lol. Another thing is DOES SE STACK WITH THORNS????? I know SE STACKS WITH RING MOST LIKELY!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a NL, there is nothing great now. ALL bosses corsairs going to do more dmg than NLs now if this is all true. Good job nexon. Ah well.