The awaited leeching debacle!

Why are you complaining, Josh? We kill at similar speeds at O4. We have HS. Nothing's gonna change

What's wrong? Can't handle having common sense thrown into your face? Nexon doesn't define everything in their game. That's the whole point of an MMO. We created the standards, the economy, and just about everything else that wasn't clearly described in a patch note. Are you seriously dense enough to believe that Nexon has no problem with people giving their character a free ride through levels that they're too lazy to work for? Why else would we be discussion this new party formula? Why do you think Nexon made it?

I was going to throw in a Harrisonized reference of some sort, but even he would laugh at your argument.

Too bad Nexon did clearly define it. Come again.

Oh I didn't realize you killed at the exact same speed as whoever you're training with, my bad.

Point is someone will always be losing out. The old formula was more balanced; If you killed a little slower than your partner, then it probably would only make a huge difference over the course of a couple of hours. What about maps that have uneven platforms? TT, for example, can get difficult to split up depending on the party. Or skeles.

And what about poor priests? They already have a pretty pomegranatety 3rd job. It's not like they could take a plat at newties even if they wanted to, it would jsut be too slow compared to just having a 3rd attacker.

You're quite wrong, partying with another attacker is more balanced now. I usually avoided partying in non-hs parties because of thinking I might be killing quite a bit faster than whoever I'm with being near my level and actually losing more exp than gaining, but this way I'll get most of the exp I earn so I'd be more open to partying with friends or complete strangers while training, 88% vs 100% isn't such a difference even if they go afk for a few minutes or kill slower (if they can at least get 1 kill every time I get 2 I'm breaking even already), but 66% vs 100% was enough to almost make me feel bad about getting more kills than others in my party. :f6:

It does suck for priests though. I wish the exp formula was the same as long as you're hitting a monster at least once (60-40) so they could get some exp by partying with an attacker at himes or such until they hit 4th.

I am anti-leech. I used to just look down upon until we joined our alliance and one of the guilds was basically full of leechers. Seeing green spam for B> Leech!! and S> Leech!!!!! all the time got really annoying. And as a guild leader I felt I had to leave alliance chat on. Needless to say, the alliance leader is very anti-leech and kicked the leeching guild since his friend (who was the leader of said leeching guild) was leaving for 6+ months. It's a lot quieter in our alliance now. In my guild, if you leech, I better not find out about it. Pomegranate will hit the fan and you do not want to be on my bad side.

I do hope this change happens. As other people have said, those who get leeched don't control their characters well. The game shouldn't be all about how many levels you can get, it should be about learning to play your character well and earning your own levels. If you sit back and let someone else do all the work for you for 20+ levels and then go to play your char with craptons of new skills, you'll have no idea how to use those skills well because you didn't get the experience using them and will, thus, be an epic fail.

The one downside for me for this is that I have a HS mule in progress (lvl 40) but I don't want to take the time away from training my other characters to train him up to max HS level. I've been leeching him with my other characters that are around his level (as opposed to my MM where he'd get crap exp) so I can spend the time on them that I need to and still get him some good exp too. I don't consider this a breech of my anti-leech-ness because 1) it's my own char that I'm leeching with another of my chars, and 2) it's a HS mule and nothing more. I have a 64 cleric that I train. I don't need to play 2 clerics. Guess this means I'll have to get him up to HS mule status soon.

Too bad Nexon did clearly define it. Come again.

Really? Where? Nexon makes the rules, players set the standards. Just because it isn't in their rules doesn't mean its wrong.

Do you live your life by this genius philosophy of yours? Do you intend on cheating on your husband and half-assing your job? Nobody's saying you can't.

Oh I didn't realize you killed at the exact same speed as whoever you're training with, my bad.

Point is someone will always be losing out. The old formula was more balanced; If you killed a little slower than your partner, then it probably would only make a huge difference over the course of a couple of hours. What about maps that have uneven platforms? TT, for example, can get difficult to split up depending on the party. Or skeles.

non mage parties wont suffer if you both kill at [SIZE="6"]about[/SIZE] the same speed. so i dont have an issue if we do get the new exp formula.

skeles and most TT maps can be split into 2 parts quite evenly, i dont see the issue.

also

You're quite wrong, partying with another attacker is more balanced now. I usually avoided partying in non-hs parties because of thinking I might be killing quite a bit faster than whoever I'm with being near my level and actually losing more exp than gaining, but this way I'll get most of the exp I earn so I'd be more open to partying with friends or complete strangers while training, 88% vs 100% isn't such a difference even if they go afk for a few minutes or kill slower (if they can at least get 1 kill every time I get 2 I'm breaking even already), but 66% vs 100% was enough to almost make me feel bad about getting more kills than others in my party. :f6:

It does suck for priests though. I wish the exp formula was the same as long as you're hitting a monster at least once (60-40) so they could get some exp by partying with an attacker at himes or such until they hit 4th.

says does is.

nothing else needs to be added.

Really? Where? Nexon makes the rules, players set the standards. Just because it isn't in their rules doesn't mean its wrong.

Do you live your life by this genius philosophy of yours? Do you intend on cheating on your husband and half-assing your job? Nobody's saying you can't.

Had you bothered to read anything else that I've said, I myself do not agree with leeching. But just because I do not agree with it does not mean that it is against the rules. I get what you're saying. Sure, we set the standards. We determine what is right or wrong based on what NEXON has not clearly defined themselves. When they stated that leeching is not against the rules unless there is a passing of real life currency for the services, they condoned leeching. However, seeing as how fickle Nexon was with the E-wands, they very well could put their foot in their mouth later and say they changed their mind. (As you mentioned, this exp formula change very well be that foot.)

I really don't intend to argue with you. I'll disagree with someone if I think I am right, but I'm not going to sit here and get into some circle jerk with you over a topic in a video game.

And for the record: I'm a heterosexual male. I won't have a husband tyvm.

Had you bothered to read anything else that I've said, I myself do not agree with leeching. But just because I do not agree with it does not mean that it is against the rules.

I don't care. What you're saying is that if something isn't against the rules, it's ok to do. Did you ever once think that there's no rule in regards to leeching because it would be impossible to enforce? Leeching is still partying. It's obvious that Nexon's well aware of the leeching issues that have been going on for the past year or so, and really, it should be apparent that Nexon doesn't support it.

I'm a heterosexual male.

Do you live your life by this genius philosophy of yours? Do you intend on cheating on your wife and half-assing your job? Nobody's saying you can't.

It's a lot quieter in our alliance now. In my guild, if you leech, I better not find out about it. Pomegranate will hit the fan and you do not want to be on my bad side.

NO NO NO NO, I will not be hitting any fans for someone else leeching. Pick something else. Stop picking on me jess.

On topic: I dont mind leeching if its like oh hey man im killing a bf right now want a few lvls.
At which I wouldn't mind(im sure jess would kill me) It's the whole leeching from 27-140 that bugs me

I've been leeching characters since 2005. Yes, 2005. It has never been an issue. When you have 2 characters, 1 being a much faster killer than the other, it's only natural you'd want to sit the 2nd one on a rope somewhere to try and get extra benefits. It's a time saver for sure.

Yes, Ultimate mages and Leafre mobs changed the scope of this, but leeching has been around since the beginning of the game. Now it's fast and profitable (since 2008). It's not wrong, and it's not against any rules. I actually have no idea why people are so butthurt about leeching. You'd think we were talking about abortions or religion.

It's virtual levels for virtual currency in a virtual game.

I've been leeching characters since 2005. Yes, 2005. It has never been an issue. When you have 2 characters, 1 being a much faster killer than the other, it's only natural you'd want to sit the 2nd one on a rope somewhere to try and get extra benefits. It's a time saver for sure.

Yes, Ultimate mages and Leafre mobs changed the scope of this, but leeching has been around since the beginning of the game. Now it's fast and profitable (since 2008). It's not wrong, and it's not against any rules. I actually have no idea why people are so butthurt about leeching. You'd think we were talking about abortions or religion.

It's virtual levels for virtual currency in a virtual game.

Justification: I do it so clearly it's okay.

If it isn't a problem why do you think the formula was changed?

Justification: I do it so clearly it's okay.

I don't do it. In fact, I've never leeched a single one of my characters. However, I think leeching is okay. Let the lazies be lazy. What's the big deal? I'm not a fan of leechers, but I don't hold it against them. I think many leechers are fabulous players.

I actually have no idea why people are so butthurt about leeching.

Because Maple Story is a game that requires work. Every MMO has a grinding element. Nobody likes it, but taking the easy way out only makes all the real players look bad.

Justification: I do it so clearly it's okay.

If it isn't a problem why do you think the formula was changed?

Justification: I have a moral dilemma with what other people do with their fake currency, so i need to push my morals onto them.

To answer your question: It hasn't been changed here, yet, but with all the evolution this game has undergone I'm not surprised it was in other versions. I'm glad they're paying attention to old MS formulas for once and trying to refresh things. I got a few more formulas they should take a look at.

Now a question for you: Why do you have problems with how other people play the game when it still falls into the legit realm of the ToS?

Because Maple Story is a game that requires work. Every MMO has a grinding element. Nobody likes it, but taking the easy way out only makes all the real players look bad.

EDIT - Who says it requires YOU to do the work. I'm clearly allowed to pay some teeniebopper mesos to level my character for me while i deal with other stuff in life. Saves me time and headaches, and Nexon gave me the thumbs up. Every MMO has a leeching element too, and it's up to the game developers to either fix it or let it slide. 'Nobody likes grinding' was the key phrase of your sentence.

Nobody likes it, but taking the easy way out only makes all the real players look bad.

How? I did not know leeching was making me look bad. I am a "real" and dedicated player, surely even by your standards. I grind tears and blood. I work and achieve things the pointlessly hard way (and I love it). How have leechers lessened my accomplishments? They don't make me feel any less. They don't do anything to lower me because I still know what I achieved. They can't undo anything that I've done.

If anything, it makes me look like a stud sandwich because I did what they couldn't the hard way. More power to me, f'aggots. Suck it!

I don't do it. In fact, I've never leeched a single one of my characters. However, I think leeching is okay. Let the lazies be lazy. What's the big deal? I'm not a fan of leechers, but I don't hold it against them. I think many leechers are fabulous players.

I already explained what the big deal is. The economy would be way less crap if no one was leeching. A single high level weapon wouldn't (and shouldn't) cost you 3 billion mesos. Same with less-common skillbooks and such because the demand wouldn't be so high.

Going to draw the parallel back to real life and cheating in school. If 3 students in a class of 30 work hard and get good grades, and everyone else pays Chompy to do their homework for them and gets good grades artificially, when those 3 students go to apply for college/university they're going to be competing with a bunch of people who don't deserve those spots. Same with jobs, if you cheat through post-secondary. Sure those people will inevitably suck at their jobs but it still makes the initial search really difficult for those who deserve good jobs. And it discourages bosses from hiring from that group.

So college/jobs = bossing in maple, those who deserve to be there are left out most of the time because of the extraordinarily high number of people who meet the expected level. Even if those people end up sucking, it's going to discourage party leaders from choosing you or me without making us jump through hoops to prove ourselves first.

@Felix: It doesn't diminish our achievements but it still makes life way harder than it needs to be for us.

I already explained what the big deal is. The economy would be way less crap if no one was leeching. A single high level weapon wouldn't (and shouldn't) cost you 3 billion mesos. Same with less-common skillbooks and such because the demand wouldn't be so high.

Going to draw the parallel back to real life and cheating in school. If 3 students in a class of 30 work hard and get good grades, and everyone else pays Chompy to do their homework for them and gets good grades artificially, when those 3 students go to apply for college/university they're going to be competing with a bunch of people who don't deserve those spots. Same with jobs, if you cheat through post-secondary. Sure those people will inevitably suck at their jobs but it still makes the initial search really difficult for those who deserve good jobs. And it discourages bosses from hiring from that group.

So college/jobs = bossing in maple, those who deserve to be there are left out most of the time because of the extraordinarily high number of people who meet the expected level. Even if those people end up sucking, it's going to discourage party leaders from choosing you or me without making us jump through hoops to prove ourselves first.

@Felix: It doesn't diminish our achievements but it still makes life way harder than it needs to be for us.

Your entire point is moot. MS =/= Real life. Yes, there's people behind the character, so try not to hurt their feelings. But that has nothing to do with how you level your virtual characters in a virtual world.

As for the economy. You really cant say that leeching is screwing over the economy. You dont live in the parallel universe where leeching doesnt exist so you cant see how their economy differs.

I already explained what the big deal is. The economy would be way less crap if no one was leeching. A single high level weapon wouldn't (and shouldn't) cost you 3 billion mesos. Same with rare skillbooks and such.

So college/jobs = bossing in maple, those who deserve to be there are left out most of the time because of the extraordinarily high number of people who meet the expected level. Even if those people end up sucking, it's going to discourage party leaders from choosing you or me without making us jump through hoops to prove ourselves first.

Drawing parallels to real life can certainly be valid, but why even bother? This is still and always going to be just a game. If others make it harder, then work harder yourself to overcome them. You mentioned expensive weapons/books. Oh well? It does suck, absolutely I agree. However, I can still obtain them if I work hard enough my way. It's slower, but so what? Or I could even (in some, not all, cases) get them myself! Or learn to accept I don't need them, anyway (if you don't want to work harder to acquire them, that is).

 Spoiler

As an aside, I'd like to mention that it's not leechers ruining things. It's the hackers and meso sellers. Leeching doesn't help the problem, and it does make it worse, but it's not the cause. You're misplacing blame to suit yourself.

I never had to jump through any hoops to go on boss runs, and I'm not even the kind of guy who makes a lot of friends.

How? I did not know leeching was making me look bad. I am a "real" and dedicated player, surely even by your standards. I grind tears and blood. I work and achieve things the pointlessly hard way (and I love it). How have leechers lessened my accomplishments? They don't make me feel any less. They don't do anything to lower me because I still know what I achieved. They can't undo anything that I've done.

If anything, it makes me look like a stud sandwich because I did what they couldn't the hard way. More power to me, f'aggots. Suck it!

You're right, but when I see characters zoom up to level 150~160 in a month, I can't help but grit my teeth at the thought of how long it took me to get up to those levels. Why shouldn't I? It's like one of those typical sitcom scenarios where the dumbass gets the promotion and the hard worker just gives a blank stare.

While I don't care about it much anymore, I used to love seeing my character shoot up through ranks as I trained. Luckily, barely any leechers make it past 15x~16x (I wonder why?), but that's a kick in the balls to anyone within a leecher's level range.

Why shouldn't I? It's like one of those typical sitcom scenarios where the dumbass gets the promotion and the hard worker just gives a blank stare.

Doesn't the "good guy" always get the "girl" at the end of the story? Some day, Greg. Some day you and I are gonna get our girls.

 Spoiler

Or not. Then we can cry and stick with priding ourselves in knowing we deserved it more!

As for the rankings, I could not even begin to care less. If, however, ranks are something that matter to you, why not just pretend the ones you know leeched aren't there? Figure your rank from there, if it helps you feel better. Leechers don't have to ruin anything if you don't let them affect you.