The "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult" thread

Honestly,the gap in gear ("decent" to "best") barely affects training, maps have a hard limit and it especially isn't important for mages. Technique has always been more important than damage dealt. If you're wasting your damage, it doesn't matter that you do 3% more than someone else.

Hah! Why then was I able to dominate Dreamy Ghosts in my hayday so well? Why then was I 2hking Skele 100% with Gen when others were barely within 100% 3hk? You don't consider the difference in speed between 100% 2hk and 100% 3hk to be notable?

And this is coming from a Magician, the class who has the absolute LEAST to gain from better equipment. I shudder to think what sort of a boost I'd have over average if I was playing a Nightlord (but then again, given the amount of money I had invested in my gear, I'd never have been able to afford a comparable full set of Thief garb).

Yeah, my technique was ahead of the game at Dreamy Ghosts in regards to how other Priests went at it (MG on, good use of Heal versus SR, Dragon out at all times), but even without that, I was still noticeably ahead. Depending on my training partner, I would even sometimes go MGless and not bring out Dragon, because if I went all out, their spawn got overrun while mine fell down to almost nothing.

To take it into account, you could find Bishops who 1hko, 2hko, and 3hko the mobs they train on and get exp/hour for each.

How does that matter? Are you not of the opinion that Bishops should get the best experience rates? If you want balanced experience across the board, I'll say right now that that's impossible (short of, like I already conjectured, making all classes identical with no advantages/disadvantages), and furthermore, it throws off the nature of Holy Magicians that makes them "unnaturally" higher in number. Do you not think it is a good idea for there to be more Holy Magicians than the other classes?

I dunno, I just feel that if Arch Mages are stronger than me in every way, it's harder for me to party if I ever want to. Not all maps are ideal solo material.

Not every class can contribute as much to a party as others. This doesn't mean that it's a good idea to nerf one of the best contributors though, because even if you do, there will always be someone who can contribute more to the party than the "worst" class.

Remember, this is a social game. If you pick a class that doesn't add as much to the party (that is to say, doesn't have any good party skills and isn't noteworthy for strength), go the social route. Party friends. Really, if you're playing the game without taking into consideration the others in the game, you're not playing the game right.

And anyway, I think a better solution for the party problem you identified would be to modify existing class's buffs to make them more worthwhile. Why not make Chakra a great party buff? Why not make Magic Booster a party buff (screw Viper's, they have Time Leap)? Why not make Shield Mastery a worthwhile party buff (i.e., cut damage by a certain percent like Cleric's Invincible)? And for that matter, why not make Mage's Demons more effective and more useful?

See? All those things. They would be great for the lesser wanted in party (although, I suppose, Mages ARE wanted in 4th job for once... meh), and they do it by making the class themselves better. That's how you do it. Don't pull the better classes down, bring the lesser classes up!

FoG is faster exp without partying if you have 3+ people in a channel. Red Wyverns are definitely better exp in a party, but I've only done it once or twice. I/Ls channel hop through, don't even ask - they don't want or need to party, their Blizzard 1hkos everything in sight. I generally party DKs, other WKs, or Priest/Bishops trying to complete the Bahamut quest. Not a whole lot of people in any of those groups... DKs get better exp elsewhere, Bishops only need to kill so many Wyverns and they're done.[/color]

The problem you are identifying seems to be more related to the fact that there aren't any good elemental monsters. Have you tried going to Dreamy Ghosts with Holy Charge? If I had to guess, I'd think that would be the most effective choice for you, and if you're lucky, you could even get a little low level Priest to come heal for you.

Other than that, yeah, definitely, there should be a lot better choices for Fire and Ice elementalists. Just take a look at what 4th job Mages are doing and you'll find it obvious. Then again, with the release of the broken weapons, giving Mages a good elemental training ground only breaks things further. You're upset about Bishops hitting ~50k in 13x? Wait til you see Mages hitting 75k+ in 13x.