The "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult" thread

You claim Bishop's support skills are too good for them to have a strong attack.

This is the classic "omg nuuuu support can't be strong" argument, albeit worded differently. This is wrong. Take note that the only support skill a Bishop has that helps AT ALL during grinding is HS, and the very underlying practice behind HS is that BISHOPS WILL PARTY WITH OTHER CLASSES. Arguing that because of Bless, Door, Dispel, Bishops don't deserve to have a strong attack? That's wrong.

I think you misunderstand. No one said that they shouldn't be strong or that they shouldn't be able to solo decently. We're not saying completely destroy Bishop's ability to kill, just lower it a bit so that it doesn't eclipse all the non-mage classes by a landslide.

The only potential legitimate argument that can be laid is that the experience rates might be too high, but considering the alternative, I say that this is better, PARTICULARLY since Bishops being powerful HELPS EVERYONE.

Once again, I have to refer to Super Apples that quintuple damage. Why not, right? By your logic, it's perfectly fine since it helps everyone.

But we're aiming for balance, not making the game easier.

ps your suggestion of cutting Genesis and replacing it with a better version of SR would just make all Bishops LEAVE YOUR PARTIES at Skele and Newts and go buddy up with another Bishop at Dreamy Ghosts (i.e., what we did before 4th job came out). That's a great idea! Oh and by the way, changing the Bishop fighting style to be like the 3rd job fighting style makes Bahamut too strong, and frankly, you'd just be shifting from "omg genesis make bishop too strong omg nerf nerf nerf" to "omg SR attack + bahamut make bishop too strong nerf nerf nerf". Frankly, if Bishops have the appearance of being strong, people will complain about it. Because, like I said, people don't like it when someone they saw as inferior suddenly has a noticeable advantage.

I think you're starting to not read arguments and dismiss them as "omg bishops are too strong nerf nerf." We're not that stupid. Once again, I'm suggesting that Bishops neither be weak nor strong. Perhaps (very) slightly below the killing power of Arch-Mages on neutrals, and higher than Arch-Mages on Holy-weaks. And yes, replace ultimates with some other skill that allows them to train with more than just AR and Bahamut. Also, for the record, anyone who says Bahamut is overpowered is retarted.

But they don't mind the advantage they don't see... like how I was killing Dreamy Ghosts better than almost anyone my level. No... no... Priests are weak, they're not strong at all... Not even on a map that caters to their element, that caters to their style of fighting... no, a DK or a hermit or a hero would ALWAYS beat a Priest...

I trained with Priests all the time around then so I know very well how much stronger they were than me. However, though they were strong there (as they deserved to be so because of what you said), they still were within a reasonable range of damage. They weren't killing things 3 times faster than everyone else, only slightly. Also they were encouraged to party because their mob skill didn't allow them to train faster alone than in a party.

Comparing night lords' support skills like that can be applied to any class. Archmages' meditation increases magic attack the best out of any class, but really, it's not as important as the support skills of a bishop. In practical training and bossing situations, haste and meso up really don't do all that much. When bossing, haste almost always does nothing at all, as most bosses are immobile or very slow and have insignificant meso drops. When training, night lords most effectively train with ultimate spammers anyways, and haste loses its purpose as the bishop/archmage doesn't really need to move from one spot. Meso up is irrelevant because looting slows down training. Bishops' support skills, however, are almost essential in any effective training party or efficient bossing situation. You'd extremely rarely any leechable party with members of level 120 or higher without holy symbol. The same could be said about zakum/horntail with heal, dispel, holy symbol, holy shield, resurrection, door, and bless. Night lords' skills don't help nearly as much as those of bishops in those situations.

By the way, night lords' advantage is in apples, not their class.

qft