The "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult" thread

Personally I would give up ultimate entirely if, in exchange, I got a skill that actually made me wanted/useful at bosses. Arch mages can train fine, but its entirely not fair that such a large part of the game is most often unavailable to them.

I agree completely. As it stands now, ultimates have made Mages absolutely broken at training while conversely horrible at bossing. I guess being bad at bossing isn't directly related to having an ultimate, but it feels like they could have replaced it with something like you suggested.

And yes, because of the way the game's system is, Bishops do need to be contenders as attackers at 4th job and beyond, because without that ability, Bishops would be relegated to subpar experience rates and forcing them to only leech for exp. But please, that's not what this is about, please don't go "OMG NUUUUUUUUU CLERIC IS SUPPORT FUK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" because no one cares to hear it.

I'm not saying that Holy-Mages shouldn't be able to do any damage because that's incredibly close minded. The Holy-Mages do need to be able to kill something or they'll do as you said. However, don't you think it's strange that the class that makes parties possible can train solo nearly anywhere faster than any non-mage class? I guess I'm saying that they should be attackers and able to kill things at a reasonable speed, but not so powerful that they'd rather train solo (I know bishops that get better exp solo). But really that just goes back to ultimates.

But again I've digressed into my long list of what "should" be in a balanced game, which this is not. All the best balancing ideas have already been said, so I guess I'll stop here.

On a somewhat on-topic note, I'm very glad Elemental Wands/Staves came out. It'll do wonders for balancing Arch-Mages with the other attackers at bosses. Though it would have been nice for Holy-Mages to have gotten one, I don't think it would have realistically helped any. For the most part, Holy-Mages do no attacking at bosses and they already train fast enough. Unfortunately they gave people even more of a reason to be luckless, but I'm sure we all knew that's how endgame would be anyway.