The "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult" thread

grims are also weak to holy

They also aren't things which people use Genesis on typically.

I don't get why you would use an ult on a single target o_____o

The single target DPS on my Genesis is higher than my AR (about 10k DPS with neutral Gen compared to like 6k DPS neutral AR). Level 1 AR, and I know that's not what you were asking about, but yeah. To really answer your question though, the point is that many bosses have multiple parts and/or summons, particularly Zakum, Horntail, and the coming Pink Bean.

don't Paralyze and CL outdamage Meteo/Blizz on single targets?

At higher levels, yes, but again, many bosses have multiple parts and/or summons.

just an interesting thought....

Bishop VS AM solo training. Assuming the monster is neutral to holy/ice and the AM does do a little more damage...but the bishop only need to train 90.9% because of HS and AM's got to train 100% o_o...if you get me...lol

It's not perfectly balanced (it's poorly balanced I would say), but the balance to this is Booster. Mages attack faster, and this is supposed to help them get faster experience. Also notice that Mages can benefit from a Holy Magician having HS, but a Holy Magician cannot benefit directly from a Mage having magic booster.

If I had to say so, I would say that it would have made sense to make Mage's booster be a party buff, but that's neither here nor there.

genesis is faster than blizzard with a 11+ speed booster

This is a major problem with the system. The skills should be same speed boosterless, but Mage's with Booster should cast their attacks at a higher speed than Bishop's Genesis.

If you want to consider other skills of the bishop, invincible is godly. Most bishops I see take around 1.3k from newties and my archmage takes 2k.

Invincible is a necessary component to a Holy Magician's 3rd job. We'd be in for hell if we couldn't go MGless, because in many cases, what we do requires us to sit inside mobs and just take damage constantly.

One of the main arguments that makes bishops better than arch mages is the fact that the best monster to train on has [SIZE="3"]ALWAYS[/SIZE] been weak to holy.

Wrong-o. Monsters are "always" weak to holy, or weak to nothing. Sometimes they might be weak to something else as is the case with Grims being Fire weak, or with the brief time in which Vikings were taken seriously (they're weak to Lightning).

Trying to keep giving slite advantages to arch mages (okay this monster is neutral/yeah the arch mage is using an elemental staff) isn't going to make them have any edge over a bishop.

Is this in response to my post? I wasn't "trying to keep giving slite advantages to arch mages". I was pointing out the ways in which Bishops have advantage and the ways in which Mages have advantages.

Bishops have:

Holy symbol

Mages benefit from this too. Mages have Booster and Holy Magicians do not. It probably is far from perfectly balanced, but it's not broken.

Better defense skills (ER and invincible)

This is an inherent property of the sort of class that the Holy Magicians in this game are. To complain about this is tantamount to complaining that Bandits don't get to use swords or that Archers don't get to use daggers.

Friggin Heal

See above. This a key component of the Holy Magician class. The balance of this comes in the fact that it has technically limited attacking uses, and, despite being tied as fastest skill in the game, gives technically low DPS.

Resurection

This doesn't even help Bishops. It helps EVERYONE ELSE. I don't see why you would be complaining about Bishops using up 10 of their SPs to help YOU.

Ultimate that doesnt take 2x mp

This is an issue, I must admit, and the solution would be rather simple and easy to balance.

End game monsters weak to holy

Endgame is not written in stone. There are monsters in Time Temple which are weak to other elements. There will likely be endgame monsters in Crimsonwood Keep's expansion which are weak to elements beside Holy.

I don't hate mages, but it seems like Nexon just might.

Agreed, but that's another thing. Rather subclass relative balance, but I think the cross-class relations are even worse.

^Genesis casts faster and has the best element.

That's entirely subjective. Again, endgame is not written in stone and this problem can be addressed at any time, assuming the developers care to. If they don't care to address it, that's a problem at the source that is unchangeable, and no amount of pointing out injustices and/or crazy complaining will ever get anything done. I know I've been complaining about it for a long time, so I gotta admit I was a bit surprised when they made those Guardian things outside the Keep resist all elements.

In related news, a few weeks back I decided to run through a 4th job-inclusive Magician subclass DPS comparison like I did a while back before 4th came out. Barely got started on it and ran into problems and got bored. Looks like someone is just short of evaluating a new, more accurate, and more logical formula, so I'll wait a little bit, then hammer that thing out.

ps about Explosion's DPS: SR's DPS is technically lower. Also: FP Mages would practically never even try to use Explosion the way an Ice Mage would use Ice Strike, just like how a Priest doesn't really even have a shot at using SR effectively until they're almost through with 3rd job.