Dusk Wrote:I didn't say don't use examples, I said don't use the general strength of archers at bosses as an excuse to make Bigfoot, which exists only in GMS, hell for archers.
The problem with using HP as a secondary stat is that HP washing exists. HP washing will be always be done, because people don't want to give up damage. It shouldn't even be part of the game. The most annoying thing for a ranged class is when the damage done by a boss is on the threshold of survivability. A normal build needs godly HP equips, but someone who puts points into HP can do it with normal equips, and then wash MP back into damage. That's bullpomegranate. You don't understand how much I hate things that hit somewhere in the range of 5k damage. If you want it to be a 1hko for ranged classes, mark it up to 9-10k damage, at which point it really isn't worth it to raise HP.
Have you ever tried playing an archer? You can't hold a monster the size and speed of Bigfoot down without being able to KB him almost all the time, no matter how good you are at using Puppet. Headless Horseman is already a difficult target to hold down using Strafe and Puppet, and that's with a KB low enough to KB him on every shot. It's very risky for my 12x BM to kill Bigfoot on Twisted Paths KBing him on every crit, and anytime another person attacks it all hell breaks loose (I always die when I kill Bigfoot with a party; it's so pineappleing annoying not to be able to use Puppet). Put simply, a KB of 15k and leaving him as a 1hko makes soloing Bigfoot nearly impossible for an archer. Even with Apples (another thing that should not ever be necessary), not being able to KB on a large portion of your hits is crippling.
It should be a challenge. How does giving it 15k HP and dropping its damage to survivable for anyone but a ranged class that doesn't invest AP in HP make it hard? That takes no skill for melee classes; Warriors can just rush it into a corner and hack the pomegranate out of it. That's pretty much what Heroes do now. Corsairs and NLs can Recoil/FJ through it, so they have no problems there. There has to be a better way to change it than to make it a pinnable boss for everyone but a ranged class.
Edit:
Okay, I thought about it a bit more, and this is what I've concluded:
What I want
- Either all classes can solo it, or all classes can't solo it, in which case move its ass off the maps it's on right now.
- A challlenge (boss cannot be easily pinned to the wall like Anego).
- HP washing has no benefit other than to allow some classes to survive a few levels earlier
- Apples and other attack pots should not have any benefit
What I think you want
- Survivability for nonranged classes
- Ranged classes to be worse than other classes somehow
- Boss that requires teamwork
I don't really see how giving it 15k KB and making it survivable, leaving everything else the same really fosters teamwork. I don't really see any way to make the boss fair without making it soloable, so I'd just go with option A - allowing all classes to solo it.
First issue: How much damage should it do? The boss should be aimed at possible for a typical level 130. A 130 Shadower with a regular AP build has about 3500, more or less HP at that level with a 100 HP pendant. I dunno how much HP Bucs have, but I assume it's about double, and Warriors and Mages have more survivability, so I think a upper limit of about 7000, a little less with defense, should be reasonable. Maybe 6500 to be safe. This is enough for any 130 non-ranged class to survive it, while ranged classes cannot survive without HB and 4100 base HP.
Second issue: How much KB should it have and how should it work? It should be high enough so that it's not a wimp and can gain some ground against a ranged class while still KBable for anyone else, but not high enough so that it tramples any archer without possibility of holding it down. I think a KB of 5k fits the bill. Archers and NLs will need to Crit to KB. This alone isn't enough, but if Bigfoot's KB animation is held at the time it takes now and it can be hit back while in KB state (think Windraiders - they stop moving for a time but they don't lose their hitbox) archers should be able to hold it back with Puppet, and of course NLs can jump over it.
So to recap:
HP - same
EXP - same, maybe nerf to 2m? I dunno.
Damage - 6500 max
KB - 5000, works like Windraiders
I'd also like to see its avoid buffed just a little bit (I could easily hit it as a 4x slinger, which is dumb), make Power Guard ineffective on it.
1st- Yes HP washing does exist for archers, and so does better accuracy gear for melee. HP washing just happens to be more expensive.
2nd- I've said it already....... hp is a weakness for ranged. That's exactly why they have range, is because they're not supposed to be close enough to take damage. Just because archers can't take a hit, don't make a make it so everyone cant take a hit. Your weakness shouldn't be everyones weakness, especially since your strength no one else has.
3rd- I don't want it to 100% KO any range class. I want ranged classes to have to bring HB.
4th- Sorry that it's risky for your 12x bowmaster to kill bigfoot. Have you ever tried playing a shadower or buc? Try soloing bigfoot with that then tell me what is risky.
5th- True, warriors can rush it into a corner and just spam brandish or crusher. A way to fix this would be to take advantage of the weakness of warriors (accuracy issues). Bring his avoidability to somewhere around the same as a nigh shadow or dark wyvern. Then the boss really is equal for everyone.
6th- Having a 5k KB sounds like it would be alright. A ranged class would be able to keep it pinned, but it's hard for them to hit consistent 5ks so it would still be challenging for them.
