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+--- Thread: Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D (/showthread.php?tid=7575)
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Itay - 2009-01-22
Bigfoot #1: The bigfoot we currently have, fked up KB and 2,660,000 exp.
Bigfoot #2: The bigfoot I really want.
This bigfoot will give 1.33m exp, and will have a normal KB like HH. Why do I rather the one I invented? Two main reasons:
People would get less exp from LEECHING BF
Much easier to solo, especially for archers and night lords. Keep KBing it and when you need to re-skill, just place a puppet or FJ. I mean, come on. Bigfoot is a pain in the ass to kill, It's dangerous and annoying like hell. I currently solo one in 25 minutes, I assume #2 would get soloed in 10 minutes or less. Mainly because of that you'll hit 100% and not like the one we have now that you hit 4 out of 10 hits, and without all the running from BF if its get out of control shyt.
I've had this idea in mind, and always thought what would the economy would rather. Yes, I'm bored, No need to repeat.
Which one would you guys rather?
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Stereo - 2009-01-22
Honestly if they fixed the KB and nerfed it to 300k exp I'd still be happier than the current one.
Fail to kb = dead paladin... I can't hunt it at all until I can take touch damage.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - tougo - 2009-01-22
Indeed...i really hate CWK and glitched KB BF makes it even worse.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Tykian - 2009-01-22
Prefer the one now, whats the point in a boss that can NEVER touch you?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Dusk - 2009-01-22
I don't like the one we have now, but simply handing him a hitbox would make him just like half the other bosses we have.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - DrRusty - 2009-01-22
I think they should raise the kb to like 15k, get rid of the invincibility frames, and lower the touch damage to somethin like 4k - 5k.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Dusk - 2009-01-22
DrRusty Wrote:I think they should raise the kb to like 15k, get rid of the invincibility frames, and lower the touch damage to somethin like 4k - 5k.
That would kill every ranged class's ability to solo it =( Except possibly very strong Corsairs, which would destroy it completely.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - DrRusty - 2009-01-22
Dusk Wrote:That would kill every ranged class's ability to solo it =( Except possibly very strong Corsairs, which would destroy it completely.
So ur saying ranged classes don't have enoug bosses they can go to already? All they need is hb or a dk/hero to keep it knocked bak. With those stats, its more friendly to pallys/shadowers/mages/bucs rather than the usual ranged classes.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - RoxStarz - 2009-01-22
I don't know if Big Foot is Glitched or if they meant to have it not take dmg half the time. I would like to see them make it so that it at least looks like that is what they planned.
I would like to see a Big Foot that is the same as it is now except that it takes dmg every frame AND that it also has a skill that it does every once in awhile called "enraged." When this skill activates Big Foot kind of glows red and charges forward, unable to be kb'ed by any amount of dmg.
That would make for an interesting boss fight.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Dusk - 2009-01-22
DrRusty Wrote:So ur saying ranged classes don't have enoug bosses they can go to already? All they need is hb or a dk/hero to keep it knocked bak. With those stats, its more friendly to pallys/shadowers/mages/bucs rather than the usual ranged classes.
Why should archers who don't wash be the biggest losers? This boss wanders randomly through 8 maps, I'd be pretty pissed if I was completely helpless against it.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - DrRusty - 2009-01-22
Dusk Wrote:Why should archers who don't wash be the biggest losers? This boss wanders randomly through 8 maps, I'd be pretty pissed if I was completely helpless against it.
Okay... First of all, since when are archers the biggest losers? They have some of the best DPS in the game. Not being able to solo bigfoot isn't going to make the class any less desirable.
2nd- having an OHKO to any class (the way it is now) is going to make him any more safe? Archers who are skilled with puppet will still be able to kill it.
3rd- nexon said when they released bigfoot that they were trying to make a challening boss where teamwork is needed. Pinning him back makes no different than a furry anego.
4th- archers have always been crippled by hp. That's the weakness of a ranged class. 2nd body of pap does 5k+ dmg yet u still see people able to solo it.
5th- Having one boss that other classes could actually go to would be a nice thing to have. As of now, there is no boss that a NL or BM isnt the best class to have kill it. I can't believe you actually are trying to make it seem that archers actually have any trouble killing a boss.
6th- you don't even have to hp wash. There's something called a blood build. HP is a stat just like any other....
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - DarkestTempest - 2009-01-22
I'd rather have BF give 2.66m over anything else. I enjoy killing it (yes, I can kill it on all maps, even Evil Dead if I have a elderwraith distracting thief), and I'd rather have good exp for my kills seeing that BF drops nothing.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - heronz - 2009-01-22
i think a BF or some other area boss should be able to throw monsters at maplers. should be fun to see a NL or BM get nailed by a jr wraith .....lol or elder wraith. or a monster magnet skill so that it can create a meat shield. also no KB animation BUT no invincibility too.
i think right now the biggest challenge of BF is the HP and BF hunters (KSers). but its still relatively easy.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Dusk - 2009-01-22
DrRusty Wrote:Okay... First of all, since when are archers the biggest losers? They have some of the best DPS in the game. Not being able to solo bigfoot isn't going to make the class any less desirable.
2nd- having an OHKO to any class (the way it is now) is going to make him any more safe? Archers who are skilled with puppet will still be able to kill it.
3rd- nexon said when they released bigfoot that they were trying to make a challening boss where teamwork is needed. Pinning him back makes no different than a furry anego.
4th- archers have always been crippled by hp. That's the weakness of a ranged class. 2nd body of pap does 5k+ dmg yet u still see people able to solo it.
5th- Having one boss that other classes could actually go to would be a nice thing to have. As of now, there is no boss that a NL or BM isnt the best class to have kill it. I can't believe you actually are trying to make it seem that archers actually have any trouble killing a boss.
6th- you don't even have to hp wash. There's something called a blood build. HP is a stat just like any other....
I was talking about Bigfoot. Other bosses are irrelevant in this discussion. That's a problem that should be attended to in the rest of MapleStory, not one GMS exclusive boss. Archers are DPS classes; if anyone should be able to solo a boss, they should be included.
Pap isn't the same thing at all.
1. It is much easier to hold in place than Bigfoot.
2. Even if it breaks free you can hold down and avoid getting hit.
You can't safely hold Bigfoot down with Puppet alone; it would either require running into his stomp range to make him stop running and counting on him stomping or giving up some room every couple of seconds. This would be next to impossible on any map but Phantom Road. Bigfoot kills Puppet in two hits on average; even with a lowered damage that probably wouldn't last long enough for more than 4-5 hits. Having to risk certain death to hold down a boss every 10 seconds is quite a daunting task.
Blood builds weaken a character; you shouldn't encourage more reasons for people to wash. I agree that more bosses should require team effort, but Bigfoot isn't one of them. Or if you want it to be, then don't randomly spawn it all over the maps where people have to walk through to get up to CWK.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Deviant - 2009-01-22
Fix the KB on ours and we're fine, we dont need an even more sin/archer friendly one though, honestly its a boss, people should find it as a challenge, Archers and sins farm Bigfoot, HH, and Anego all day, all of which (except HH) ill never be able to do without great trouble as a Shadower, which really irks me.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - DrRusty - 2009-01-22
Dusk Wrote:I was talking about Bigfoot. Other bosses are irrelevant in this discussion. That's a problem that should be attended to in the rest of MapleStory, not one GMS exclusive boss. Archers are DPS classes; if anyone should be able to solo a boss, they should be included.
Pap isn't the same thing at all.
1. It is much easier to hold in place than Bigfoot.
2. Even if it breaks free you can hold down and avoid getting hit.
You can't safely hold Bigfoot down with Puppet alone; it would either require running into his stomp range to make him stop running and counting on him stomping or giving up some room every couple of seconds. This would be next to impossible on any map but Phantom Road. Bigfoot kills Puppet in two hits on average; even with a lowered damage that probably wouldn't last long enough for more than 4-5 hits. Having to risk certain death to hold down a boss every 10 seconds is quite a daunting task.
Blood builds weaken a character; you shouldn't encourage more reasons for people to wash. I agree that more bosses should require team effort, but Bigfoot isn't one of them. Or if you want it to be, then don't randomly spawn it all over the maps where people have to walk through to get up to CWK.
okay first- why is it irrelevant to talk about other bosses? Giving examples is one of the best ways to arue a point.
2nd- no one said archers couldn't solo it, it would just be harder than the current bigfoot for them. Raising his kb and lowering his touch damage just allows him to be friendly with all classes rather than just yours.
3rd- Yah it would be harder to keep him bak with puppet. A second alternative is to apple and bring your crits above 15k. That's why you bring other players with you to help. Either to do the kb dm or give u the necessary hp.
4th- No duh blood builds weaken your char. That's the weakness of ranged classes is their hp. Should I use another class as an example? According to you I shouldn't be using examples. I shouldn't have brought up another boss to make my point, so should I use another class to make my point when we are clearly talking about archers? Well I'm going to anyways. Warriors are a perfect example of another class with a crutch. Ranged has hp and melee has accuracy. What do warriors do when they can't hit something? They sacrifice their damage and add into dex. What makes archers so much better that they can't sacrifice damage to numb their weakness? The only difference is that hp is more expensive than accuracy. Sorry.... I didn't make the classes.
5th- havin him spawn all over the map is exactly why his touch dmg should be reduced. It makes it easier to survive a hit. My buc can't even take 1 hit with the current bigfoot and I'm almost lvl 130. If a low lvl char couldn't take a hit, he could bring a spearman friend to hb him. With the current bigfoot, there is no chance.
6th-
Deviant Wrote:Fix the KB on ours and we're fine, we dont need an even more sin/archer friendly one though, honestly its a boss, people should find it as a challenge, Archers and sins farm Bigfoot, HH, and Anego all day, all of which (except HH) ill never be able to do without great trouble as a Shadower, which really irks me.
This. If other classes have to find it a challenge, wuts wrong with ranged havin to find it a challenge too?
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Morgana - 2009-01-22
I love BF's touch damage. It's exhilirating. As a priest with tons of HP equips lying around, I can tank a hit from most bosses (other than Black Crow) with HB and MG. (I know, not Zak or HT or anything, but I'm not going to really fight those until 4th job.) The fact that I might be able to just barely tank a touch from BF is exciting. I'm planning on getting an SS the first time I manage to do it. =)
I've also gone to a non-pinned BF and it was one of the most fun experiences I've had on Maple in years. The high EXP is a good incentive to get back in the game even if you die, and there's precious little of that spirit at most bosses, where death means you can't continue at all unless you have Res. The fight is unpredictable, and you have to have fast fingers on Teleport or mount if he charges you, or leave the map before you get cornered. Learning how to telecast HS is finally useful. =P
Besides, the only person that didn't die at that BF? An 8x ranger. It's not all about class.
A friend of mine Zerks BF... Crazy-cool to watch.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - Dusk - 2009-01-22
DrRusty Wrote:okay first- why is it irrelevant to talk about other bosses? Giving examples is one of the best ways to arue a point.I didn't say don't use examples, I said don't use the general strength of archers at bosses as an excuse to make Bigfoot, which exists only in GMS, hell for archers.
2nd- no one said archers couldn't solo it, it would just be harder than the current bigfoot for them. Raising his kb and lowering his touch damage just allows him to be friendly with all classes rather than just yours.
3rd- Yah it would be harder to keep him bak with puppet. A second alternative is to apple and bring your crits above 15k. That's why you bring other players with you to help. Either to do the kb dm or give u the necessary hp.
4th- No duh blood builds weaken your char. That's the weakness of ranged classes is their hp. Should I use another class as an example? According to you I shouldn't be using examples. I shouldn't have brought up another boss to make my point, so should I use another class to make my point when we are clearly talking about archers? Well I'm going to anyways. Warriors are a perfect example of another class with a crutch. Ranged has hp and melee has accuracy. What do warriors do when they can't hit something? They sacrifice their damage and add into dex. What makes archers so much better that they can't sacrifice damage to numb their weakness? The only difference is that hp is more expensive than accuracy. Sorry.... I didn't make the classes.
5th- havin him spawn all over the map is exactly why his touch dmg should be reduced. It makes it easier to survive a hit. My buc can't even take 1 hit with the current bigfoot and I'm almost lvl 130. If a low lvl char couldn't take a hit, he could bring a spearman friend to hb him. With the current bigfoot, there is no chance.
6th-
This. If other classes have to find it a challenge, wuts wrong with ranged havin to find it a challenge too?
The problem with using HP as a secondary stat is that HP washing exists. HP washing will be always be done, because people don't want to give up damage. It shouldn't even be part of the game. The most annoying thing for a ranged class is when the damage done by a boss is on the threshold of survivability. A normal build needs godly HP equips, but someone who puts points into HP can do it with normal equips, and then wash MP back into damage. That's bullpomegranate. You don't understand how much I hate things that hit somewhere in the range of 5k damage. If you want it to be a 1hko for ranged classes, mark it up to 9-10k damage, at which point it really isn't worth it to raise HP.
Have you ever tried playing an archer? You can't hold a monster the size and speed of Bigfoot down without being able to KB him almost all the time, no matter how good you are at using Puppet. Headless Horseman is already a difficult target to hold down using Strafe and Puppet, and that's with a KB low enough to KB him on every shot. It's very risky for my 12x BM to kill Bigfoot on Twisted Paths KBing him on every crit, and anytime another person attacks it all hell breaks loose (I always die when I kill Bigfoot with a party; it's so pineappleing annoying not to be able to use Puppet). Put simply, a KB of 15k and leaving him as a 1hko makes soloing Bigfoot nearly impossible for an archer. Even with Apples (another thing that should not ever be necessary), not being able to KB on a large portion of your hits is crippling.
It should be a challenge. How does giving it 15k HP and dropping its damage to survivable for anyone but a ranged class that doesn't invest AP in HP make it hard? That takes no skill for melee classes; Warriors can just rush it into a corner and hack the pomegranate out of it. That's pretty much what Heroes do now. Corsairs and NLs can Recoil/FJ through it, so they have no problems there. There has to be a better way to change it than to make it a pinnable boss for everyone but a ranged class.
Edit:
Okay, I thought about it a bit more, and this is what I've concluded:
What I want
- Either all classes can solo it, or all classes can't solo it, in which case move its ass off the maps it's on right now.
- A challlenge (boss cannot be easily pinned to the wall like Anego).
- HP washing has no benefit other than to allow some classes to survive a few levels earlier
- Apples and other attack pots should not have any benefit
What I think you want
- Survivability for nonranged classes
- Ranged classes to be worse than other classes somehow
- Boss that requires teamwork
I don't really see how giving it 15k KB and making it survivable, leaving everything else the same really fosters teamwork. I don't really see any way to make the boss fair without making it soloable, so I'd just go with option A - allowing all classes to solo it.
First issue: How much damage should it do? The boss should be aimed at possible for a typical level 130. A 130 Shadower with a regular AP build has about 3500, more or less HP at that level with a 100 HP pendant. I dunno how much HP Bucs have, but I assume it's about double, and Warriors and Mages have more survivability, so I think a upper limit of about 7000, a little less with defense, should be reasonable. Maybe 6500 to be safe. This is enough for any 130 non-ranged class to survive it, while ranged classes cannot survive without HB and 4100 base HP.
Second issue: How much KB should it have and how should it work? It should be high enough so that it's not a wimp and can gain some ground against a ranged class while still KBable for anyone else, but not high enough so that it tramples any archer without possibility of holding it down. I think a KB of 5k fits the bill. Archers and NLs will need to Crit to KB. This alone isn't enough, but if Bigfoot's KB animation is held at the time it takes now and it can be hit back while in KB state (think Windraiders - they stop moving for a time but they don't lose their hitbox) archers should be able to hold it back with Puppet, and of course NLs can jump over it.
So to recap:
HP - same
EXP - same, maybe nerf to 2m? I dunno.
Damage - 6500 max
KB - 5000, works like Windraiders
I'd also like to see its avoid buffed just a little bit (I could easily hit it as a 4x slinger, which is dumb), make Power Guard ineffective on it.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - DrRusty - 2009-01-23
Spoiler
1st- Yes HP washing does exist for archers, and so does better accuracy gear for melee. HP washing just happens to be more expensive.
2nd- I've said it already....... hp is a weakness for ranged. That's exactly why they have range, is because they're not supposed to be close enough to take damage. Just because archers can't take a hit, don't make a make it so everyone cant take a hit. Your weakness shouldn't be everyones weakness, especially since your strength no one else has.
3rd- I don't want it to 100% KO any range class. I want ranged classes to have to bring HB.
4th- Sorry that it's risky for your 12x bowmaster to kill bigfoot. Have you ever tried playing a shadower or buc? Try soloing bigfoot with that then tell me what is risky.
5th- True, warriors can rush it into a corner and just spam brandish or crusher. A way to fix this would be to take advantage of the weakness of warriors (accuracy issues). Bring his avoidability to somewhere around the same as a nigh shadow or dark wyvern. Then the boss really is equal for everyone.
6th- Having a 5k KB sounds like it would be alright. A ranged class would be able to keep it pinned, but it's hard for them to hit consistent 5ks so it would still be challenging for them.
Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D - iFrancisco - 2009-01-23
Both of you have made some interesting and worthwhile points. I would have to say though that 5k KB is still far too little. Last thing I would want (I suppose this is for me personally) is to be able to go up to BF and spam SB and afk (wait, I would be like a range character at Anego now -.-). Any decently leveled 4th job ranged character can hit over 5k very consistently; Maybe a 8-10k KB would fit the bill much better.
If there are complaints about BF as it is now for archers, I can't imagine the complaints when the toad boss comes to GMS with his 13k+ hits; you can't be able to kill every boss efficiently.