High Leveled Content

Idk. Back in the day, everyone had to deal with 10k touch Papulatus, 10k touch Scarlion, 10k touch Zakum3, and 10k touch Bigfoot.

Papulatus didn't do 10k touch, I believe his touch was and has always been 3k. On the other hand, you did have to deal with 10k bomb explosions (but those could be avoided provided you didn't hit the bombs or you did more than 10k damage to them). Very few people Scarlion'd except warriors and HP washed people when he did 10k touch. Zakum3's touch damage is entirely avoidable, and, once again, only warriors (and F/Ps before it was fixed) actually killed Bigfoot when his touch damage was 10k.

Seriously, "more damage = more challenge" is a horrible way to design bosses. Yes, if it kills everyone in the game with a single hit it is technically challenging. You know what else would be challenging? A boss that always reduced your damage to 1, had a lot of HP, and a time limit of oh say... an hour. That would also technically be challenging; should that be a new boss?

Papulatus didn't do 10k touch, I believe his touch was and has always been 3k. On the other hand, you did have to deal with 10k bomb explosions (but those could be avoided provided you didn't hit the bombs or you did more than 10k damage to them). Very few people Scarlion'd except warriors and HP washed people when he did 10k touch. Zakum3's touch damage is entirely avoidable, and, once again, only warriors (and F/Ps before it was fixed) actually killed Bigfoot when his touch damage was 10k.

Seriously, "more damage = more challenge" is a horrible way to design bosses. Yes, if it kills everyone in the game with a single hit it is technically challenging. You know what else would be challenging? A boss that always reduced your damage to 1, had a lot of HP, and a time limit of oh say... an hour. That would also technically be challenging; should that be a new boss?

Putting DR on bosses doesn't make things challenging either.
My whole idea of my boss was to make people more self aware, and move more, and not have to deal with fake difficulty. And even though it is hard to kill, it has no time limit, so you just need a certain amount of damage to actually do well against it.
And because of the 10m per 4 seconds, and the massive amount of chaos, it requires a full team.
Edit: when i say paralyzed, i mean slowed down. Should fix that. And 2.1b hp, not 2.1m

Putting DR on bosses doesn't make things challenging either.
My whole idea of my boss was to make people more self aware, and move more, and not have to deal with fake difficulty. And even though it is hard to kill, it has no time limit, so you just need a certain amount of damage to actually do well against it.
And because of the 10m per 4 seconds, and the massive amount of chaos, it requires a full team.
Edit: when i say paralyzed, i mean slowed down. Should fix that. And 2.1b hp, not 2.1m

All your boss does is make sure you have a finger constantly on the potion button.

All your boss does is make sure you have a finger constantly on the potion button.

All it does?
Did you read everything?

How about instead of making the bosses stronger, make the players weaker?
Not necessarily limiting damage or skills like Balrog, but that's at least a good step. Make it so that you can only do damage at certain places at certain times, maybe. Have it automatically target the person who is doing the most damage over a short period of time, give it a debuff that decreases MAX hp and mp (can't be dispelled or allcured away), and make its attacks heal it for a percent of damage dealt.

Most bosses already target everyone on the map, and attack everyone on the map.

Papulatus didn't do 10k touch, I believe his touch was and has always been 3k. On the other hand, you did have to deal with 10k bomb explosions (but those could be avoided provided you didn't hit the bombs or you did more than 10k damage to them). Very few people Scarlion'd except warriors and HP washed people when he did 10k touch. Zakum3's touch damage is entirely avoidable, and, once again, only warriors (and F/Ps before it was fixed) actually killed Bigfoot when his touch damage was 10k.

Pre-BB, Pap 1st form was 3k touch, 2nd form was 5k touch. Both were avoidable if you were ranged. 1st form magic was like 3.8k tops, bottom bombs did 2k touch, but exploded for 4k (5k+ on aggro), top bombs exploded for 8k (10k+ on aggro, I guess). Could easily survive with 3.9k HP or so on my NL. Scar wasn't that big of a deal if you could rush it with Warriors, Buccs. Like 8k touch tops with 2.5k magic or so. Targa on the other hand was a problem for ranged because it could bounce around for 7-8k touch even if it was pinned to a wall. Zak 3rd body is easily avoidable like you said. BF did like 10-12k touch except when it was glitched with that 30k+ stomp attack. Many ranged can kill it at a decent rate, too. I didn't have much trouble avoiding BF on my NL and BM. Although BFPolice frequently ruined most people soloing or duoing BF. xD

What I said:

There are many things that need to be changed (for more high leveled content anyways). I shall organize it into 4 categories:

Terrain Changes:
Skill Changes:
Boss Changes:
Other:

Let's start from the first, shall we?

Terrain Changes:
1) Large, “realistic” terrain
After Big Bang, most of the maps shrunk in size, and almost all hidden-streets became blatantly obvious with yellow portals. Now, small, uniform maps have their pros and cons, but instead of making every single map the same in structure, make the higher-leveled areas more unique.
One keen example was Crimsonwood Keep (before its destruction). As you ascend through the forests and mountains, even with the jump quests, you could actually feel like that you actually ARE climbing up a mountain. The map structures were all unique, there were mazes, and you actually had to INTERACT with the map to not fall (such as the Typhons/Windraiders maps). This actually gives challenge while training, instead of zoning out and moving left and right spamming attacks.
KEEP the boring maps, but RESERVE THEM FOR LOWER LEVEL MAPS (ie: under Lv.120). The small, uniform structure gives an ease of accessibility for low levels and draws them into the game. It makes the game more casual and beginner friendly, BUT once they reach the higher levels, they will discover a whole new world with large, wide expanses, lots of true hidden-streets, and a truly beautiful/deadly world that will keep them entranced in the game.

2) Hidden Streets
Same with the first point, you can reveal all the hidden-streets you want, but for low levels. Once you get to Lv.120+ you want a true sense of mystery and adventure! No more guiding them, they must discover the world by themselves!
But, what makes a hidden street unique other than the fact it is “hidden”? Offer unique bonuses such as MAP STRUCTURE (easier for specific classes to kill, or build skills around specific map structures), MAP EFFECTS (like the one in the Dragon Canyon of Leafre, in which in one of those boulders, when it starts glowing purple , heals you), MINI BOSSSES/RARE MONSTERS (make them spawn more commonly in these maps).
See? All these exciting things can already be implemented!

Skill Changes:
3) 4th Job Skills
Before Big Bang, once someone reached 4th job, they had to continue striving to collect powerful skills. This was a key motivator to continue leveling/doing stuff after reaching Lv.120. It was like a bridge between the high-leveled content with bosses and reaching 4th job. The quests had interesting mythology behind it and once you finish the hardcore quests, it truly felt like an accomplishment.
Skill books were different, you just killed this plain old boss with barely any background story and it drops it, or you can buy it from sellers in the FM. Skill books were MORE inconvenient, and there’s no extra quest EXP or mythology behind it.
So, since most people found it “inconvenient”, why not return these quests, but rather than locking the skills, allow them to give bonus SP to the specific skills they were originally meant for (along with good amounts of EXP)? Not only would this return these awesome quests and give something to do other than grinding after reaching Lv.120, but this can also open up an opportunity for new skill revamps to include more skills due to the extra SP!

4) Collectible Skills
I LOVED those collectible skills that appeared in the beginner tab. By giving them quests, you can actually give people something to do when they don’t feel like grinding. These skills can benefit them tremendously.
One keen example is the set of Cygnus skills; however, instead of looking for ultra-rare drops (which is boring), give them a party quest/maze/boss to hunt/traverse through to find the needed materials. As for the Cygnus skills, other than changing the way to obtain the drops, you should make them more useful as they level, and you can open it up to ALL classes as opposed to adventurers.
Other skills can be like the “Pig-Weakness” skill, but instead of only pigs, slimes, and shrooms, what about monsters/bosses of a specific type/area (like El Nath Monsters or Undead Monsters)?

Boss Changes:
5) Honestly, bosses need a revamp. As of now, it’s all unbalanced. It’s either too easy, or it’s blatantly impossible unless you have like a 100,000+ damage range. Timers and high HP only give a false sense of “challenge”, it’s all the same in the end: hit as much damage as you can within X amount of minutes. That’s boring.
Bosses can do so much more.
Boss Skills: Allow them to cast their OWN skills (make them appear on the left side of the screen as opposed to the right side and make the background of the skills black). They can have the very same buffs we have for all I care.

Attacks: The attacks should NOT be all map hit: there’s no challenge, no need for skills.
It’s either
A) You die or
B) You don’t.
It's all chance, there's no sense of "AHA! I was so skilled I survived the boss!". Even with seduce, it's either you die or you don't (considering you can't do anything to save yourself). Make them either projectiles or warning signals and make them hit extra hard so players have an incentive to dodge. As for the all-map attacks make them subtly weaker.

Special Effects: You can create pitfalls in which players must shake to escape, or cages in which partners must help break.

Deaths: As of now, it’s either you die and fail, OR you can have unlimited tries, which sucks. Make it so that every time a person dies, a specific amount of HP recovers for the boss, so they won’t have an incentive to just die and come back and yet they will have multiple chances to take down a boss.


PQ/Monster Park Changes:
6) Low level PQ’s can be as boring as they are right now. As of now, the PQ’s all revolve around killing monsters and require almost no team work/thinking whatsoever. Players NEED TO THINK when they’re higher leveled, and even if you feel like you still need that casual grinding in PQ’s, you can provide a different mode for each PQ, but they give more EXP and more PQ items than normal. As opposed to only having stronger monsters, make it so that there are actually puzzles, mazes, jump quests, or things that require players to communicate with each other to work (like pre-Ascension PQ’s). Sometimes, there MUST be team-work and a sense of danger (ie: CWK).

7) Monster Park had the right concept, but it was too shallow. Monster Park should be more of a maze in which players have to navigate through in order to reach the end for the ultimate boss/EXP reward. The monsters should HIT more, there should be potion cool-downs (making people more careful and not just rush into monsters), and a sense of being trapped in a labyrinth. Maybe, for example, in a more dark-themed monster park map, the maps are all dark and you can barely see your surroundings, make it so that monsters drop torches and open up the range of vision.

These changes, I think, will provide a balance for casual players and more dedicated players, along with decent high-level content that can motivate players to continue.

Most bosses already target everyone on the map, and attack everyone on the map.

Not sure who you're talking to but if you're talking to me, those are kinda irrelevant.

Not sure who you're talking to but if you're talking to me, those are kinda irrelevant.

I was referring to your target the one that does the most damage, but now that I look at it again, yeah, disregard.

once again, only warriors (and F/Ps before it was fixed) actually killed Bigfoot when his touch damage was 10k.

I actually routinely did BFs on my IL just to prove it was doable at nearly the same pace, with far less potion use. I could keep my nubs safer too cause there were whole maps that were safe for them to wait on.

One thing I loved was the old storybooks. Those made you feel one with your class and gave you a bit of lore. Also, those took effort and time rather than dumping a bunch of money onto it.

Mystery Mastery Books really need to go...

One thing I loved was the old storybooks. Those made you feel one with your class and gave you a bit of lore. Also, those took effort and time rather than dumping a bunch of money onto it.

Mystery Mastery Books really need to go...

They should really bring that back since it brought up the need to quest to obtain skills.
I really found that entertaining.

Other than that, there has been many great suggestions from everyone and hopefully Nexon has the heart to at least take one of these suggestions and implement them into the game.

However, that won't happen until pigs fly.

For high level stuff... I'd try to bring PQ elements out of PQs and more implemented in normal maps. Imagine if a BOSS spawned right in the middle of a LKC kind of map. And everyone stopped their mob to battle the boss... Or special events like something you have to run away from, etc.

Personally I'd prefer an alternate way of leveling, Grinding is boring and takes way to long. I'd prefer if Maple had a PQ where you're tossed into a tactics RPG battle and fight other players for EXP.

One thing I loved was the old storybooks. Those made you feel one with your class and gave you a bit of lore. Also, those took effort and time rather than dumping a bunch of money onto it.

Mystery Mastery Books really need to go...

don't remind me ._. is there anywhere in southperry/internet that anyone knows that has the lore of the books and quests of each class? i've been looking for them with no luck.

i miss my beholder lore ._.

i miss my beholder lore ._.

This. L> . As much as it took time and effort, had fun reading the lore.


Gotta agree with Mystery Books having to go. I'd say ALL Mastery Books. Bring back skill quests.

Lets make all sklls EXP based leveling based on usage, forget this point-dump system. People who put effort into their characters should have a benefit over purely leeched characters.

Make Lv 20 & 30 "mastery" via quests like the old Bahamut, Aura, & Hex ones, however, with a skill level requirement. This actually gives a reason for higher levels to do something other than grind and boss, something that benefits their character significantly.

I gotta admit, I miss doing my old Aran skill quests, it's a good thing I did all of them back in pre-BB.

Skill quests sound something fun and thrilling to do. The hell with people who don't like them because it takes too long or whatever.

I agree, with one exception...

Don't make any skill quests that require you to kill one of the "free for all" bosses (Pianus, Manon, Griffey). It's just not fun waiting for that 36 hour respawn, knowing that there are 6000 other players on your server who also want the same thing.

I don't mind challenging boss fights to get them - just make them summonable for each player doing the quest.

They already updated the 4th job advance to work like this; make the Horntail prequests do it too.

I agree, with one exception...

Don't make any skill quests that require you to kill one of the "free for all" bosses (Pianus, Manon, Griffey). It's just not fun waiting for that 36 hour respawn, knowing that there are 6000 other players on your server who also want the same thing.

I don't mind challenging boss fights to get them - just make them summonable for each player doing the quest.

They already updated the 4th job advance to work like this; make the Horntail prequests do it too.

If anything, make the next 3 people going in that need it get it. It could be quite interesting to say the least.