What is "good" music?

AAAAND SHENAnigans out. Finally burned myself out here.

Sorry for any kind of damage I may have caused, blah blah blah, but I'm away now.

IS IT GOOD

Hell no.

I loved every minute of it. But that's my preference.

If it's theoretically good then yes, by definition, it is good.

I loved every minute of it. But that's my preference.

If it's theoretically good then yes, by definition, it is good.

Okay

/argument

No point in discussing this further, since what I've read since the start of your argument has no musical basis whatsoever, and you're totally ignoring these "laws" in music aren't coercitive as are not as well the rest of the "laws" that govern over art branches in their entirety.

I'd really like to see Duchamp and his Toilet argue this with you, I really do.

Well. I liked that green pony's mustache.

I loved every minute of it. But that's my preference.

If it's theoretically good then yes, by definition, it is good.

Can you give us examples of other music you find good in your personal library? I've posted music I found good and bad, and explained why I found one of them to be bad. I haven't yet explained why I find the other good though. If I had to think about it, aside from liking it itself, I feel if you close your eyes you can in a way just feel the emotions behind the song. The instruments flow nicely with each other, they're skillfully played, and it has sounds that are neutral in it. The general melody of it isn't too repetitive, while at the same time not trying to force parts to stand out from one another.

And it's enjoyable to listen to more than once. But I feel that's where it draws a bit more into opinion rather than pointing out what's good with the actual song itself.

Came up with a better example.

Do you like jazz? Who doesn't like at least a couple jazz songs?

If classical composers lived to these days, they'd hate jazz with all the passion in the world. Jazz is by far the most popular genre among theoretically deviated music. Jazz is so unique due to the use of chromatic scales (using every single note from C to C in every octave), disonant chords and strange variations.

IS JAZZ BAD

I still think this thread is retarded.
This goes on my list of top 10 most retarded arguments in Southperry history. Probably at number 6.

 Spoiler

Well. I liked that green pony's mustache.

+1 to you, sir.

Where is this list? I'd like to see it. @Locked.

Sorry I'm so late, but class called.

I think the thing that bothers me the most with people's views on modern pop is that every pop artist has no talent. Kesha is probably the first thing that comes to mind, but if you read up on some of these people, they really do have some degree of musical talent. Kesha worked her ass off to get where she is, and she writes all of her songs and they do have meaning (such as the objectification of women in music, she chose to make her song Blah Blah Blah about switching the roles and objectifying men.)

Lyrical meaning should be included in the judging of a song as much as music should be included in the judging of poetry. As such, I do not consider it.

I can understand if you don't like her music, that's acceptable. But to say she has no vocal talent seems a little ridiculous. Have you heard her perform live?

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;l3R3KqrJAI4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3R3KqrJAI4[/video]
[video=youtube;_7HvURBhMGE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7HvURBhMGE[/video]

There's tons of other examples of course but those two are probably my favourite live performances from her. She has a powerful voice and is a very skilled pianist. She may be overexposed but I think she deserves to be where she is today. She IS musically talented, denying it is just being oblivious and close minded. Her songs are ALL written or co-written by her and contain a message behind them. I know I could never have that amount of creativity and talent in music, could you do better?

Mhm. Exactly as I said. No vocal talent by today's standards, obviously instilled in you, and all piano playing I've heard has been mediocre. At this point I would be wrong not to back myself up.

[spoiler=A modern example of true vocal talent, as well as far more entertaning than Gaga's stageshows][video=youtube;aVsLMxam21I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVsLMxam21I[/video][/spoiler]

 Aaaaand, an actually talented pianist

[video=youtube;LNq38tfNMrs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNq38tfNMrs[/video]

But of course, these people don't get the exposure they truly deserve. How many of you only know Kristin Chenoweth as that woman that was on Glee?

IIT Sarah and a one or two others post set of arguments that only apply to them and clashes with everyone else's. Good god, I gave up after page 3 because I already knew how it's going to end.

What someone considers good music is subjective. This thread is pointless. There is no type of music that everyone likes.
A better title would be"What is 'tolerable' music?"

I'd really like to see Duchamp and his Toilet argue this with you, I really do.

HAHA. Oh man, thanks for reminding me about DuChamp. That was grade A entertainment when one of my art professors talked about his Fountain work.

After reading the posts I haven't read in this thread, I felt as if some of my braincells just died. I got more confused. I don't even have a proper reaction image to sum up my feelings right now.

IIT Sarah and a one or two others post set of arguments that only apply to them and clashes with everyone else's. Good god, I gave up after page 3 because I already knew how it's going to end.

But the thread is only 3 pages.

But the thread is only 3 pages.

lol oh you. What I mean is I read up to page 3, and pretty predicted how the rest of the thread will turn out. Turns out I was absolutely right. Saved myself 5 minutes of reading too!

The fact of the matter is FrozNLite was trying to prove a point about tastes but he made the mistake of making a topic called "what is 'good' music" instead of "why do people think their taste is the best" which is clearly what he really meant.

You're half-correct. Ironically this thread was designed with that title to see the interpretations posters took, and how they would respond. Personally, what I wanted to find out was quite literally what genres, styles of music, etc...in other words, what identities of music people preferred. Considering I only had a vague guess at what such identities were, determined by knowing a fair amount of the character of the average member of internet culture, you can't say I was trying to prove a point by getting people to post what I expected.

I like how the thread turned out, ultimately, as I think the discussion over these past few pages has been riveting. Confusing, at times, but mentally stimulating. I do agree with whomever made the comment about an "intellectual comment in a comedy club," as that's how I feel about the Funhouse, too. Serious can, and does from time to time, exist here, so don't pass up an opportunity to join a discussion simply because of the discussion's location. To those still uneasy, would it help if I quoted myself from the first or second page saying that I would have put this in The Speakeasy, but was worried it was too sensitive of a thread with the chance of Funhouse-esque derailment that I chose to put it here? Clearly I was wrong, and The Speakeasy is a more appropriate place, as the derailment that occurred was not the mass posting of ponys, but of good, thought-provoking banter.

One final comment for now: Rick, you know I love K-Chew and am glad (and expected/10) you posting her as the modern example of prime vocal talent. But I still think Gaga has great talent for a modern vocalist as well, and do so because it's in a different field of music. Vocal talent in musical music/vocal performance fields has far different requirements than that of stage pop artists. I think the best way for me to say this rather than type out some grandiose yet enigmatic response would be to give an anecdote about auditions for one of UW-Madison's acapella groups, Redefined. The acapella groups on campus sing non-musical theatre/vocal performance music, meaning genre classics of the past half century or so. I'm good friends with a decent portion of the group, and when I've talked to them about auditions, they don't want to hear people coming in singing The Pirates of Penzance in a beautiful operatic soprano. Even if the vocalist had phenomenal talent , it wouldn't be the style they're going for.

That's the point here. Now it's also important to point out that just because the styles are different doesn't mean one is not REALLY music, or isn't good music, or is full of talentless hacks. There are a number of phenomenal modern genre vocalists, with ADELE and Norah Jones being the first that come to mind. But I would still stick Gaga up there with them. That being said, if we were to compare modern genre vocalist/pianist Norah Jones to modern genre vocalist/pianist Lady Gaga, I would definitely say Norah Jones has more talent in those musical fields than Gaga. But she's not also creating stage shows and learning dance choreographies. That doesn't excuse Gaga from being a lesser talent, but it does provide some perspective for not criticizing her so harshly.

Oh, and I was also going to say: the reason musical theatre/vocal performance fields are chock full of amazing talent is because it's almost required to have professional training to make a name in those fields. Without such a requirement in genre performance it's a hit, miss, or in-between. But, again, that's not to say genre performance lacks talent. Oo, thought of one good, final example: Beyonce. Her vocals are stunningly amazing, yet are classified as genre vocals IIRC. But she can apply them to musical theatre and perform wonderful numbers (mostly good belts, though).

Going to skip the involved discussion and respond to original thread / rather, others who responded to the original thread.

"My heart will go on" by Celine Dion.

YES.

I still think instrumentals are great, by the way. Even if I usually don't listen to those as much as the other genres that are on my list, I found this one remix of "Air on the G string" a while back, and I love it:

 G Senjou no Aria #4

[video=youtube;3d9naCtbhaE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9naCtbhaE[/video]

Too bad I don't know too many people that would like this kinda stuff ; ___;

Gasp, it's Air on the G String. (Edit: Whoops. When I originally posted this I skimmed over your sentences. Eh, post still makes sense.)

 Same, performed by a real live Flute Quartet

[video=youtube;tL7oey9YsjU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL7oey9YsjU[/video]

Certain Bach pieces have something about them that really resonates with me and this is one of them. Here's another one.

 Partita in A Minor

[video=youtube;jAJ4i1L3y5M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJ4i1L3y5M[/video]

God I love the sound of a flute played well.

I was originally going to post something else I had in mind (and actually non-classical!) when I saw the title of this thread but this post is long enough and I think I'll save it for another day.

One final comment for now: Rick, you know I love K-Chew and am glad (and expected/10) you posting her as the modern example of prime vocal talent. But I still think Gaga has great talent for a modern vocalist as well, and do so because it's in a different field of music.

No. Don't go there. This is a cop-out argument.

[video=youtube;VATmgtmR5o4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VATmgtmR5o4[/video]

One of my absolute favorites. Blast it when you have writers block and watch it all go bye, least, it works that way for me. What I wouldn't give to be able to sing like that. Or to go back in time and catch one of his shows.