Why didn't 4th Job AoE's get a cooldown?

Yes, because they released the ultimates, they are broken.

If they'd never let Magicians advance to 4th job they wouldn't have any broken skills



Yes, I put anyone who parties Arch Mage/Bishops for leeching exp in the same boat as glitchers.

Wouldn't they have been broken even if they didn't release the ultimates? But if you're so strong about your viewpoints, then okay.

(I have partied with them before, but never exclusively as a leech.)

There's a very easy way to fix this.. You know those new monsters and maps in MapleSEA? Why can't gMS have higher-up monsters that are about a Skelegon's level, but not weak to Holy, but instead weak to Fire and Ice. That way, all 3 classes (that has Ultimates), will be satisfied. And Night Lords will probably have more maps/places to train at, and people will complain less (because as humans, we always and will complain...).

EDIT: To clarify on what I'm talking about, it's those walking FAT trees monsters, plus the FAT tree boss.

You mean Dukus and Krexel? Krexel = immune to everything lol.

People will start complaining that Arch Mages will have the upper hand once they release fire/ice-weak monsters that trump Skeles. I'm thinking why not just have 4 maps with 4 different monsters with 3 corresponding weaknesses and with one map being neutral. That way we can all complain about how ultimates are broken. /sarcasm

Now that I've thought about this for a while, I'll just throw out an idea:
Why not have a thing called "MP burn" cooldown, where your MP has a fast cooldown rate before you can use skills again and stuff. It shouldn't hamper using MG, but if you abuse MG and ultimates at the same time, your MP will soon become "locked", being unable to be used except for MG (which will continue to contribute to being "locked" if you keep on getting hit). This cooldown should be based on level and probably your Max MP. This concept applies to all other classes, so other classes can't spam skills on and on, giving small breaks in attacking and such, and giving Maple some flavor. Of course, if you are high enough level, this "locking" will become almost nonexistent.

This idea I think isn't bad, but I'm not motivated enough to vouch for it or push it through Nexon >_>

Yes, they're broken because they were released without making a bunch the monsters magic resistant, or whatever it would take for them to be worse than other training skills.

If it beats every other class at all the current training monsters, I think it counts as broken. If they add magic resistance/immunity to the game that might change. It's not like they're only the best at elemental weak monsters, they're better at neutral and even resistant ones



Why is it ok for Onyx Apples to be broken but not Ultimates? If Thieves all had high base attack (140-160 like most classes) instead of 100-120, they wouldn't gain an unfair advantage.

To top off your main topic question, 4th job AoEs burn up tons of mana even if you're level 200 or something, this skill will burn up almost all your mana if used up to two or three times, not to mention you're gonna need all the good pots to keep up with using this skill coz this skill also wastes money if you don't use infinity.
I dont think it's really cheap to my opinion.

Yes once new high level areas start coming out (eg. Ulu City, Time Temple), it would be better for everyone.

1500 mesos per cast (with HB, using percent pots from NLC) is by no means expensive >_> At that rate if you kill 5-6 monsters who each drop 500 mesos, you've doubled your money. I think in practice it's more like 700-1000 mesos except dropped at a 50% rate, so it's around that point anyway.

If Krexels are immune to everything, that is great, this is totally not sarcasm either. Finally, a map where I won't fear of getting KS'ed by a Bishop / Arch-Mage. <____<

Yes, they're broken because they were released without making a bunch the monsters magic resistant, or whatever it would take for them to be worse than other training skills.

If it beats every other class at all the current training monsters, I think it counts as broken. If they add magic resistance/immunity to the game that might change. It's not like they're only the best at elemental weak monsters, they're better at neutral and even resistant ones



Why is it ok for Onyx Apples to be broken but not Ultimates? If Thieves all had high base attack (140-160 like most classes) instead of 100-120, they wouldn't gain an unfair advantage.

How about onyx apples and ultimates are both broken. How about we all just look at Afrobean's post and say everything is broken?

You're forgetting something, so what if they beat every class at training, if every other class beats them at bossing. The game is more balanced than people think. It's just that people keep looking at what other classes have; instead of the pros that their own class has.



And at the thread starter, you posted this in my "Surpassing wormified?" thread

Uhm, why do you even want to surpass someone like that? He either duped all his stuff together or mass gambled on gachapon (a.k.a. meso-buying from Nexon) to get all the mesos needed for it... I can't think of any reason you want to surpass such a person... Cheating or buying your way into succes in a game accomplishes nothing.

Besides that, on your own pserver you will always get way more powerfull (Factor 10x) then you will ever become on gMS/mSEA public, so the point of becoming the stongest Shadower in the world, will never be possible that way...ever...

Trust me, pixel-stat-elitism leads nowhere, it won't make you happy... Don't waste your time and money chasing something you'll never get to on the public servers. Next year Nexon releases another zOMGbbq item and you're back to the beginning and the meso buying process will start all over again...

Btw, being overpowered also gets boring in 15 minutes, same thing as pwning everyone with 4th job skills at the Hennesys Hunting Ground... Funny for 15 minutes... nothing more...

So, my advise, let it go... focus on fun, not stats...

Shouldn't we be focusing on fun instead of who beats who anyways?

Shouldn't we be focusing on fun instead of who beats who anyways?

Helps not to have a class who can change channel into your map and accidentally obliterate 3/4 of the spawn with 1 press of the button >_> It's a lot easier to avoid a couple godly shadowers than a couple thousand bishops. Someone mentioned it in maybe that thread or the thief bragging one, but a godly shadower is not all that much stronger than a good warrior.



I don't really mind if it stays this way, I am in no hurry to level up anyway so I don't need a map... but I do mind when people say that because Nexon made it this way it's not overpowered. I don't play a mage and I don't party mages so it doesn't affect me unless they start using BW scrolls for "dummy scrolling".

Helps not to have a class who can change channel into your map and accidentally obliterate 3/4 of the spawn with 1 press of the button >_> It's a lot easier to avoid a couple godly shadowers than a couple thousand bishops. Someone mentioned it in maybe that thread or the thief bragging one, but a godly shadower is not all that much stronger than a good warrior.



I don't really mind if it stays this way, I am in no hurry to level up anyway so I don't need a map... but I do mind when people say that because Nexon made it this way it's not overpowered. I don't play a mage and I don't party mages so it doesn't affect me unless they start using BW scrolls for "dummy scrolling".

I wasn't trying to bring in anything about shadowers when I quoted the thread starter. I was just merely trying to make a point that we should be trying to have fun instead of complaining who has what. (according to his post which is contradicting this thread)

Wow... a class finally gets an advantage, when it's been at the bottom of the freaking heap pile since day one, and we want to cry about it? I mean, attacking classes have had Onyx Apples for a while now, and the do so little for mages, but so much for you, more for sins.

You guys are always gonna find something to cry about. I mean, mages can't boss worth a damn, and hardly anyone wants or needs them around. The only exception to that, are bishops. They didn't need the boost of Genesis, but they got it, and that's fine with me. We got training now, get over it. As an f/p, I've had to deal with people coming into my maps and killing off my spawn. I don't know a single mage that goes from channel to channel casting their Ultimates, but people, warriors, sins, archers, all of you, go from map to map, and attack whatever you see, without care of who is there, even if a monster is visibly poisoned.

So get over it. It's just a damn game, and if you guys just stop being so selfish and accept things the way they are, you can benefit from it. I'm not just talking about leeching either. If you party an Arch Mage on the newties map, you can easily take the bottom spawn, and just increase the exp gain. You guys are too blind, and selfish to see it though. Stop worrying about what other classes have, and just use your class to the best of it's own ability.

One point I see being brought up every other post is being bad at bossing.

Well, why shouldn't they be made better at bossing then? The whole boss concept in MS is pretty restricted at the present. The three strongest bosses in the game are huge stationary things that shoot stuff at you, occasionally summoning some crap that dies too easily. Mobile bosses are, well, mobile, but they're basically reduced to stationary once they're pinned to a wall.

If they released some... more intuitive bosses, I'm sure mages could be made very useful. There's physical resistance. Why not physical immunity? Physical-immune monsters spawning in the boss map would give mages a role as spawn clearers while the attacking classes chip away at the boss. Or they could just make a boss with some crazy weapon defense (it's over 9000! literally) and weakness to all elements that also happens to be very weapon-cancel-happy.

Then it's just a matter of giving ultimates a 5 second cooldown and shortening the casting delay by half a second or so, and strengthening/adjusting their other attacks so they can fill the holes in ultimate downtime.

Time for my imput. If Nexon never made mage ultimates, instead of this thread, the topic starter would probably be complaining that (the next best class... hermits), are ridiculously overpowered and why there's no cooldown to their triple throw or their shadow partner.

However, if Nexon never made ultimates OR triple throw, then the thread starter would be complaining about (next best class...) is broken.

It'll just be circular. There's no point in this thread, and I honestly hope to see it locked.

There's no point in this thread, and I honestly hope to see it locked.

Yep, it's ended up just like every other time this gets posted.

Mages defend their right to gain exp twice as fast as any other class.

Other classes complain about it.

It'll just be circular. There's no point in this thread, and I honestly hope to see it locked.

So it is asked and so it shall be granted.