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Archer %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest)
hadriel Wrote:I WANT A LUMI REVAMP! lol ok no I'm only half serious. Lumi is good as it is, with advantages to both KMS and GMS systems. I've remarked before (several times) that Luminous is one of the classes with the fewest tweaks since they were released. I'm hoping that they would make it less slow, and less DC-causing, and less good for hackers to abuse -.-

Hadriel

Like Jett without the falling stars disconnections?
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KMS 1.2.218:
Bow Master:
1 Target: 200% boss: 47424%/s 44507%/s 36227%/s 27846%/s 19497%/s

What the hell?

Is this real life?
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Takebacker Wrote:KMS 1.2.218:
Bow Master:
1 Target: 200% boss: 47424%/s 44507%/s 36227%/s 27846%/s 19497%/s

What the hell?

Is this real life?
If you mean the damage reduction I believe those are the PDR numbers. If you mean the insane damage check out jumping NW lol.
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For Armor Break, I haven't included its damage bonus based on defense yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a flat multiplier that uses the monster's base defense?

In which case, it looks like this:
KMS 1.2.218:
Bow Master:
 Arrow Platter/Uncountable Arrow
 Hurricane/Uncountable Arrow
 Hyper
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JoeTang Wrote:For Armor Break, I haven't included its damage bonus based on defense yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a flat multiplier that uses the monster's base defense?

In which case, it looks like this:
KMS 1.2.218:
Bow Master:
 Arrow Platter/Uncountable Arrow
 Hurricane/Uncountable Arrow
 Hyper



Yea, its a multiplier based on w/e PDR the boss has.
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I don't think anyone has tested if it works as TD or if it's a separate multiplier, but you have the right idea.
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VerrKol Wrote:I don't think anyone has tested if it works as TD or if it's a separate multiplier, but you have the right idea.

I am like 70% sure its a multiplier. My damage occaisonally jumps like crazy on high pdr mobs. I am looking for a video on someone testing it. I swear someone did it long time ago....


HighOnMushrooms Wrote:Actually they said in the Coordinator's Invitation event that the third patch of the summer update will contain updates to I think 30 or 31 (out of 35) jobs, both in terms of their skills and stories!

That's crazy, I wonder if the stores are going to be potentially how MS2 is. Techically in MS2, the range classes have different job instructors that could have different stories and quests for the player. It would be cool if each class had thier own story.
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Lisak Wrote:I am like 70% sure its a multiplier. My damage occaisonally jumps like crazy on high pdr mobs. I am looking for a video on someone testing it. I swear someone did it long time ago....

I sincerely doubt anyone has tested it. The tester would have to run the damage output for both cases and unless someone finished my damage calculator when I wasn't looking, no one has. I would assume it acts like TD, other archer skills do/did, (stacks with TD and boss) unless someone proved otherwise. How high your damage jumps would depend heavily on how much boss and td you already have, but the difference between flat multiplier and td wouldn't be apparent unless you had a lot of %boss or actually did the math.

I might be inclined to test it myself out of curiosity, but last I checked Armor Break activation rate was still horribly broken and it's not worth the effort to fight that to get a decent sample size.
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VerrKol Wrote:I sincerely doubt anyone has tested it. The tester would have to run the damage output for both cases and unless someone finished my damage calculator when I wasn't looking, no one has. I would assume it acts like TD, other archer skills do/did, (stacks with TD and boss) unless someone proved otherwise. How high your damage jumps would depend heavily on how much boss and td you already have, but the difference between flat multiplier and td wouldn't be apparent unless you had a lot of %boss or actually did the math.

I might be inclined to test it myself out of curiosity, but last I checked Armor Break activation rate was still horribly broken and it's not worth the effort to fight that to get a decent sample size.

The activation rate looks fine in the recent KMS videos I saw. Its activates a group of arrows every few seconds on rapidfire skills. Acutally those KMS videos,just reminded me that I remember someone did test in GMS, because I remember reading that in GMS it was affecting like 4 arrows per activation irregardless of Hurricane or Blaster or something like that.

And, no, it can be tested if its a seperatre multiplier. If you normally do 1m on Chaos Vellum and it jumps to 4m, test over, its a seperate multiplier. That is what I am saying.


Edit:

Finally found it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu17qPOSZAA

I think the activation for mobbing is like the skill description, but rapidfire skills use a different system? IDK even know if its taking AFA/MagicArrows into consideration or the exact hits armor break with Hurricane/Installation. I don't think its a glitch, but Armor Break may not have the same impact on 1v1 than it does on mobbing. But I see what you mean by a possible glitch. Not sure how JT is going to go about that.
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Lisak Wrote:The activation rate looks fine in the recent KMS videos I saw. Its activates a group of arrows every few seconds on rapidfire skills. Acutally those KMS videos,just reminded me that I remember someone did test in GMS, because I remember reading that in GMS it was affecting like 4 arrows per activation irregardless of Hurricane or Blaster or something like that.

And, no, it can be tested if its a seperatre multiplier. If you normally do 1m on Chaos Vellum and it jumps to 4m, test over, its a seperate multiplier. That is what I am saying.


Edit:

Finally found it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu17qPOSZAA

I think the activation for mobbing is like the skill description, but rapidfire skills use a different system? IDK even know if its taking AFA/MagicArrows into consideration or the exact hits armor break with Hurricane/Installation. I don't think its a glitch, but Armor Break may not have the same impact on 1v1 than it does on mobbing. But I see what you mean by a possible glitch. Not sure how JT is going to go about that.

The current GMS skill description says nothing about differences when mobbing or using rapid fire skills. I don't recall Max noting any changes to the description in KMS, but I'm not as meticulous about these updates as I once was.

I'd forgotten Rujin did that test. I'm not going to hunt down his old post on basil, but I can see his damage go from 20~25m to 35~40 with Armor Break. Which is a bit less than what I'd expect (25*1.45*1.225=44m) if it was a completely knew multiplier. This is partly because he has other sources of PDR (markmanship at least), but without knowing how much %td he has outside of MMS it's difficult to determine precisely.

If he only has 15% td from mms and AB is %td, he'd get a 33% ((45+15)/45) boost instead of the 45%. 25*1.33*1.225 = 40.7

I'm too tired to do the math including PDR from skills, especially since it would be pure guesstimation without knowing his equips and character cards at the time, but I think you see my point. It could be either and we can't tell until someone runs the numbers (preferably when they are awake). Oh and it would make way more sense to test on a boss since %boss and increased mob def would make the change way more obvious.
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Got me curious and I wanted to see the actual difference.
 No Armor Break
 Armor Break Activated

This was done at Hard Magnus (120% Ignore Defense) with the bowmaster hyperskill Gritty Gust (500% DMG). I had 135% boss and 80% Ignore Def during this screenshot.
As you can see the first hit did about 5.5M~ DMG whereas the second, armor break, hit did 18M~.
Armor break deals additional DMG and at HM it should add 2.2 times the output of of a normal hit.
5.5 x 2.2 = 12.1
5.5 + 12.1 = 17.6 which is quite close to what it did
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VerrKol Wrote:The current GMS skill description says nothing about differences when mobbing or using rapid fire skills. I don't recall Max noting any changes to the description in KMS, but I'm not as meticulous about these updates as I once was.

I'd forgotten Rujin did that test. I'm not going to hunt down his old post on basil, but I can see his damage go from 20~25m to 35~40 with Armor Break. Which is a bit less than what I'd expect (25*1.45*1.225=44m) if it was a completely knew multiplier. This is partly because he has other sources of PDR (markmanship at least), but without knowing how much %td he has outside of MMS it's difficult to determine precisely.

If he only has 15% td from mms and AB is %td, he'd get a 33% ((45+15)/45) boost instead of the 45%. 25*1.33*1.225 = 40.7

I'm too tired to do the math including PDR from skills, especially since it would be pure guesstimation without knowing his equips and character cards at the time, but I think you see my point. It could be either and we can't tell until someone runs the numbers (preferably when they are awake). Oh and it would make way more sense to test on a boss since %boss and increased mob def would make the change way more obvious.


I followed a bit of what your saying but pretty much if your saying pretty much what is above that it is a multiplier, then I agree.


Eyon Wrote:Got me curious and I wanted to see the actual difference.
 No Armor Break
 Armor Break Activated

This was done at Hard Magnus (120% Ignore Defense) with the bowmaster hyperskill Gritty Gust (500% DMG). I had 135% boss and 80% Ignore Def during this screenshot.
As you can see the first hit did about 5.5M~ DMG whereas the second, armor break, hit did 18M~.
Armor break deals additional DMG and at HM it should add 2.2 times the output of of a normal hit.
5.5 x 2.2 = 12.1
5.5 + 12.1 = 17.6 which is quite close to what it did

I was always under the impression that Break was just 5.5*2.2 for the Break damage so just 12.1 not 17.6. I am not sure though. Do you happen to know the impact the 50% pdr ignore will boost your damage?
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Lisak Wrote:I was always under the impression that Break was just 5.5*2.2 for the Break damage so just 12.1 not 17.6. I am not sure though. Do you happen to know the impact the 50% pdr ignore will boost your damage?
The 50% PDR makes my PDR during the attack 90% instead of 80%.

120 * 0.9 = 108 || 120-108 = 12%
120 * 0.8 = 96 || 120-96 = 24%

So the impact is an extra 12%.
Normally I would do 76% of my DMG, now 88%.
12% is quite some but it can not account for 5.5M DMG on a 18M~ total I believe
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Eyon Wrote:The 50% PDR makes my PDR during the attack 90% instead of 80%.

120 * 0.9 = 108 || 120-108 = 12%
120 * 0.8 = 96 || 120-96 = 24%

So the impact is an extra 12%.
Normally I would do 76% of my DMG, now 88%.
12% is quite some but it can not account for 5.5M DMG on a 18M~ total I believe

Might it be you're missing some defense ignore in your calculations?
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JoeTang Wrote:Might it be you're missing some defense ignore in your calculations?

I do not know if GMS has this but EMS tells you how much ignore def you have:
[Image: zxkup2.png]
Armor Break grants a 50% extra according to @Aggravate :
Aggravate Wrote:The latter, so as an additional 50% PDR source, you'll go from 80% to 90% multiplicative PDR.
If you mean anything else, please tell me Smile
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Eyon Wrote:I do not know if GMS has this but EMS tells you how much ignore def you have:

Armor Break grants a 50% extra according to @Aggravate :

If you mean anything else, please tell me Smile

We have that same UI since 1.48 for gMS.

No, it should be a 50% PDR source. The only thing I can think of is that our Hard Magnus got nerfed from 120% to 70% PDR in the RED update. That wouldn't make sense in your case since the multiplier would be reduced from 2.2x to 1.7x, so I don't know what's causing your damage to spike.
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JoeTang Wrote:KMS 1.2.218:
Mercedes:
 Spoiler
 Double Leap Tornado
 Hyper

Nerf to Legendary Spear spam, passive buff to Leap Tornado damage. They might have been compensated with delay cuts because Unicorn Drive, Leap Tornado Legendary Spear were added to the chain list, but I don't have the new delays.

Does this include the fact that the debuff timers for both Unicorn Spike and Legendary Spear are 30s?
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Is it an issue with the blue area around Magnus? Check against another boss e.g. Hard Hilla.

Hadriel
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KMS 1.2.221:
Black Heaven
Mercedes:
 Spoiler
 Double Leap Tornado
 Hyper

I'll probably never bother to find out what the new link delays for everything is.
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What are bowmaster numbers with 65%~ buff duration with Enchanted Quiver?
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