new ToS regarding hacks

Well to the people who think it's not enforceable...... I really don't think that Nexon just thought up a ToS and wrote it up out of their ass without knowing if it would be enforceable or not. With a company like that, they definitely had lawyers with them to make sure the contract was a binding one. One that they could act on.

Legal departments add scare clauses all the time, knowing full well they haven't a snowballs chance in hell of enforcing them. It's just an intimidation tactic.

Most contracts actually contain a clause specifically stating that if any portion of the contract is deemed invalid the rest of the contract remains in full force, because there are several places where a single invalid clause will terminate the entire contract, and most contracts are not flexible enough to be valid in all places in all times.

As for this particular "Contract", it falls under jurisdiction of the UCITA, the Uniform Information Transactions Act, being an agreement to license computer information/rights. More specificallly this is an "access contract" between Nexon America, and the end user.

UCITA only permits the recovery of damages once for the same loss, and the remedy clause of the contract may not impose damages that exceed the loss caused by the breach ( UCITA § 801). UCITA, like common law, requires that liquidated damages specified in a contract must be reasonable in light of the loss anticipated at the time of contracting, or the anticipated difficulties of proving loss. Unreasonably large liquidated damages are considered void ( UCITA § 804 ). This is again where I pointed out that Nexon being free to play, means they can't prove damages are being sustained unless you take an action that wholesale interrupts service and eliminates all potential for them to have had income. "He disconnected a player who might have spent money with us" doesn't cut it, sorry bub. Can't even claim that someone drove off people who otherwise might've spent money because you can't quantify a loss on income that wasn't guaranteed. If you drove off players and they cancelled their paid suscriptions you could be considered liable for the loss of those subscription fees, but even those are hard to quantify.

The UCITA can be found here for the curious.

On the other hand, when someone sells mesos they can pretty well quantify the loss because Nexon sells mesos too :p Just look up how many mesos they sold and multiply by the 500nx sacks.

On the other hand, when someone sells mesos they can pretty well quantify the loss because Nexon sells mesos too :p Just look up how many mesos they sold and multiply by the 500nx sacks.

Pretty much,yes. That's an action that directly competes with their profitibility, and since you have to log into the game to transfer the mesos, you're subject to the ToS.

what's the big deal?? I fail to see it....anyone having a problem with the new ToS obviously doesn't have a clean record. Just like the only people not afraid of the cops are the ones following the law.

what's the big deal?? I fail to see it....anyone having a problem with the new ToS obviously doesn't have a clean record. Just like the only people not afraid of the cops are the ones following the law.

Think of how often people get banned for glitches, like BF autobanning half the archers in the game. Now imagine them telling you that you owe Nexon 1000.00 for it.

You don't have to be doing things that are against the ToS to have an interest in it, especially since it's legally questionable at best.

what's the big deal?? I fail to see it....anyone having a problem with the new ToS obviously doesn't have a clean record. Just like the only people not afraid of the cops are the ones following the law.

You got me. My character's IGN is based on a real name. I should be banned because I am violating the ToS.

There is also a huge difference in an autoban and a manual ban which will perma remove them from ranks while an autoban won't. I'm not saying there's a problem with people taking interest in it I'm only saying why are people getting so bent out of shape and pissed off about it.

There is also a huge difference in an autoban and a manual ban which will perma remove them from ranks while an autoban won't. I'm not saying there's a problem with people taking interest in it I'm only saying why are people getting so bent out of shape and pissed off about it.

Probably from the general misbelief that it matters.

There is also a huge difference in an autoban and a manual ban which will perma remove them from ranks while an autoban won't. I'm not saying there's a problem with people taking interest in it I'm only saying why are people getting so bent out of shape and pissed off about it.

We are "getting so bent out of shape" because the ToS is ridiculous.

People just needa chill and do what they know is right and they'll be ok.

You got me. My character's IGN is based on a real name. I should be banned because I am violating the ToS.

You think I follow the ToS to the T? I curse in game multiple times and I'm fully aware this is against ToS. I also log on other accounts that aren't mine like an HS mule to help me train....this as well is against the ToS. Hacking and things like that are on a WHOLE different level and this was made obvious by the $$$ penalty statements in the ToS.

Besides that any ToS in a foreign language (with several words I don't even know what they mean without looking them up) together with that ToS beiing presented in such a crappy way like this one (I clicked on accept the first time without reading), don't apply to Dutch citizens (there have been several processes here about this already and -all- failed on how they presented their ToS, or not understandable language, even in dutch itself). Nexon makes the classic fault that you can't send a binding contract in such a way.

They would just ban your GMS account by reasoning that Dutch players should be playing on Maple Europe and not on GMS.

You think I follow the ToS to the T? I curse in game multiple times and I'm fully aware this is against ToS. I also log on other accounts that aren't mine like an HS mule to help me train....this as well is against the ToS. Hacking and things like that are on a WHOLE different level and this was made obvious by the $$$ penalty statements in the ToS.

Doubt many people follow the ToS to it's fullest.

what's the big deal?? I fail to see it....anyone having a problem with the new ToS obviously doesn't have a clean record. Just like the only people not afraid of the cops are the ones following the law.

Wow. Talk about a fallacy. Ever stop to consider the problem of power in the first place?

Enforcement is a power. We, as people, give up some of our power in order to delegate this to *normally* uninterested parties. The fact that it can be abused and the people that this power is delegated to can and may be interested in the outcome does not mean that the concerned party is guilty of something.

It doesn't matter so much in the scope of the game, but in the scope of real life, your mentality is an extremely dangerous one to have. It's an authoritarian opinion. It doesn't surprise me that I'm seeing it, but you should at least be aware of what it is and not speak as though it's a fact that only guilty folk are afraid of the enforcers of law.

As an afterthought, if you live in the US, you can't maintain this position and still hold to the ideals on which the country was founded. You're innocent until proven guilty, not guilty if you're afraid of the police.

As far as the Terms of Service go, this is a very stupid move. I see a comparison to the RIAA and I do feel that's somewhat accurate. You don't sue your own customers - the people that actually use your service and provide you with income. I don't care what business you're in - that's a failure of a business model. Speaking of failures, increasing the penalties for crimes has never ever stopped people in history from committing them.

You know, I'd almost believe they cared, except when I played until last month, I saw the SAME EXACT HACKERS, day after day, in the same spots, at the exact same times. They weren't hiding. They weren't being banned. I reported them countless times. Some of the hackers lasted for months. As in plural.

And what's this? Excellent (and other offshoot guilds) members still not permanently banned? Even after being disbanded/banned as VenGeanCe and ReVenG, holding the Horntail cave, countless hours of KSing, and so on. Yeah, pretty sure Nexon doesn't care. Pathetic. I don't care what version of the ToS you look at, most of the members of those guilds have violated nearly every point on it. But it seems like it's okay because they buy lots of NX.

We are "getting so bent out of shape" because the ToS is ridiculous.

And kind sir you also have the option of not agreeing to the ToS and not playing the game if its policies are so "ridiculous." No one is forcing you to click "OK."

And to above: As fallacious as my blunt comment may seem I guarantee you the majority of those people who hate the updated part of the ToS are those directly affected by it. And by majority I don't just mean 51%...I'm talkin more around 80-90ish. Not many would go so far as calling Nexon an authoritarian business because they'd like to profit come to them and not hackers/hacking sites.

And kind sir you also have the option of not agreeing to the ToS and not playing the game if its policies are so "ridiculous." No one is forcing you to click "OK."

I enjoy Maple Story. I do not like Nexon America.

Yes, I do find the ToS ridiculous. I mean, how do they plan to enforce such rules? Do they plan to ban the better half of the population or offer some sort of alternative to the names that are not allowed by the Tos? Is Nexon going to go to every hacking site and ask for $1000+? That is what I find ridiculous.

While I do not like the ToS, I am not going to stop playing a game that I enjoy. What would I accomplish though stopping? Players are a dime a dozen. Nothing would change if I stopped playing. I do not have enough pride or any of that crap to stop because of Nexon.

Nexon once changed someone name to PrincessPood and IHeartPoodle (IIRC). Go figured.

Nexon actually royally screws themselves on their free to play motto here - because if it's free to play MapleStory, how can you can be causing them a loss when there is no monitary expectation expressed in your usage of the service? Unless you were doing something that demonstrably impugned upon thier image, violated their intelectual property, or interrupted their service and therefore it's potential to make money they can't sue you for breaching their ToS because you're not taking any actions that cost them money for them to seek to recover.

I concur. This was the very same argument I projected during the Koolk incident. There is no concrete way for Nexon to prove their income, which are intangible. They themselve declared it free to play, unlike Blizzard's WoW, which is subscription based.

And to above: As fallacious as my blunt comment may seem I guarantee you the majority of those people who hate the updated part of the ToS are those directly affected by it. And by majority I don't just mean 51%...I'm talkin more around 80-90ish. Not many would go so far as calling Nexon an authoritarian business because they'd like to profit come to them and not hackers/hacking sites.

I'm not calling Nexon an authoritarian business, although businesses usually do want total authority over their income.

How do you know this supposed majority are the ones directly affected by it? How can you guarantee this when you don't really have any factual backing for it? You're making a great deal of assumptions in maintaining that position.

Yes, I do find the ToS ridiculous. I mean, how do they plan to enforce such rules? Do they plan to ban the better half of the population or offer some sort of alternative to the names that are not allowed by the Tos? Is Nexon going to go to every hacking site and ask for $1000+? That is what I find ridiculous.

Selective enforcement or no enforcement at all. And no, for them to go to the hacking sites, the owners/hosters of the site would've had to agree to the Terms of Service. It's only the users on the hacking sites that bother with Nexon's service.