Dex question for dits

MoNs have 5 stats, too so I just subtracted.

Oh yea, should have guessed.

MoN = 10 attack, HTP = 17*3 = 51 stats. MoN helps more unless you're appled.

I use STR tops on my Bandit. You can't scroll them for attack, and the only other alternative is LUK. STR tops add the same stats as LUK tops.

Your standards are way too high. You don't even need a base+10 attack shield to be "decent." For most people, outdamaging their peers in CPQ is decent. Not everyone wants to go down that path of making a Bishop and sell leech for several hundred hours before leeching a main to boss and decking it out in insane gear. That's a really narrow vision of how to play the game.

HT pendent allows you to keep your base as low as possible without wasted ap points.

Scrolling your top for str isn't smart because if you want to upgrade your str top is downright worthless. Partly because not every thief is a str bandit, but every thief needs luk. You're always upgrading as a shadower, you don't want equipment that you can't get your money back for.

HT pendent allows you to keep your base as low as possible without wasted ap points.

Scrolling your top for str isn't smart because if you want to upgrade your str top is downright worthless. Partly because not every thief is a str bandit, but every thief needs luk. You're always upgrading as a shadower, you don't want equipment that you can't get your money back for.

Attack > low base stat. If you're really concerned about base stats, then STR tops make even more sense. You can't get your money back for reverse equips either, but that doesn't stop people from using them if they're good.

And what do you mean you're always upgrading as a Shadower? The same could apply to any class. You make it seem like Shadowers have to have better gear than everyone else just to function.

Attack > low base stat. If you're really concerned about base stats, then STR tops make even more sense. You can't get your money back for reverse equips either, but that doesn't stop people from using them if they're good.

And what do you mean you're always upgrading as a Shadower? The same could apply to any class. You make it seem like Shadowers have to have better gear than everyone else just to function.

Low base stat>attack until 14x when the ratio turns against you. Reverse equip is end game weapon (or if you choose) a 18 str top is not worth as much as a 18 luk top correct? Then why scroll or buy an 18 str top when you won't get your money's worth back, let alone sell it easily. It takes money to sustain a decent shadower, our damage percentiles suck, our min range is too low and we need the most equipment than any other class other than a hero or paly, who have cheaper equipment anyway.

On the issue of a ht pendant vs. MoN for str shadowers, it has already been discussed that an HT pendant + buffs will > MoN with buff, although the clean range can possibly be higher with a MoN, the addition of buffs make the HT pendant more ideal.

Upgrading as a shadower would mean you were upgrading to what suits your shadower, as of recently, with the introduction of dragon khanjars, most people tend to switch over to str either way, quite a few have stayed luk/dexless, but a large amount have converted or stuck to being a str shadower. Upgrading with the possibility to resell as a *thief* would include using a luk top, because NLs can benefit for them as well, but those who choose to just upgrade their shadower, may want to scroll whichever top they see fit to the build they want.

Although it is a bit beneficial to be able to resell your equipment to a larger market, in terms of wanting to compete with the larger damage dealing shadowers, you would put your own build, stats before the resale value.

When i used to play my shadower, i have a 34 base str and i believe an 80 base dex lol, but at the time i was using a 119 atk gdk and 28 atk dkhanjar, and i used to be amongst one of the top damaging dits. In the end, a good mixture of both can suffice, my equips(most of which i sold) capped me at exactly 75 str and 150 dex that i needed to wear my dagger and shield. I understood the benefits of scrolling equips that would provide a higher resale value, but before as a non common str bandit/shadower, i put that factor second only to the first priority of dishing out as much damage as i could.

On the issue of a ht pendant vs. MoN for str shadowers, it has already been discussed that an HT pendant + buffs will > MoN with buff, although the clean range can possibly be higher with a MoN, the addition of buffs make the HT pendant more ideal.

Upgrading as a shadower would mean you were upgrading to what suits your shadower, as of recently, with the introduction of dragon khanjars, most people tend to switch over to str either way, quite a few have stayed luk/dexless, but a large amount have converted or stuck to being a str shadower. Upgrading with the possibility to resell as a *thief* would include using a luk top, because NLs can benefit for them as well, but those who choose to just upgrade their shadower, may want to scroll whichever top they see fit to the build they want.

Although it is a bit beneficial to be able to resell your equipment to a larger market, in terms of wanting to compete with the larger damage dealing shadowers, you would put your own build, stats before the resale value.

When i used to play my shadower, i have a 34 base str and i believe an 80 base dex lol, but at the time i was using a 119 atk gdk and 28 atk dkhanjar, and i used to be amongst one of the top damaging dits. In the end, a good mixture of both can suffice, my equips(most of which i sold) capped me at exactly 75 str and 150 dex that i needed to wear my dagger and shield. I understood the benefits of scrolling equips that would provide a higher resale value, but before as a non common str bandit/shadower, i put that factor second only to the first priority of dishing out as much damage as i could.

My 15x shadower got to the 5.3k range a year ago, but I wasn't included in any damage whore thread because my Kanzir was duped. I paid like 200mil for it because the guy forgot a 0. lol. My dragon khanjar I blew up at 26 attack, really threw off my gameplay. Gave up after the chaos scroll deflation, just added to much to the metagame lol

Low base stat>attack until 14x when the ratio turns against you. Reverse equip is end game weapon (or if you choose) a 18 str top is not worth as much as a 18 luk top correct? Then why scroll or buy an 18 str top when you won't get your money's worth back, let alone sell it easily. It takes money to sustain a decent shadower, our damage percentiles suck, our min range is too low and we need the most equipment than any other class other than a hero or paly, who have cheaper equipment anyway.

That's a stupid argument. You're saying Shadowers are expensive because you're trying to make them hit like a Hero. Well NLs must be cheap, then, because slap SE on a poorly equipped one and they hit as much as a well-equipped Hero.

I don't scroll my gear to sell it, I scroll until I get something worthwhile.

That's a stupid argument. You're saying Shadowers are expensive because you're trying to make them hit like a Hero. Well NLs must be cheap, then, because slap SE on a poorly equipped one and they hit as much as a well-equipped Hero.

I don't scroll my gear to sell it, I scroll until I get something worthwhile.

I think you misunderstood, I'm saying that they have as many gear options as hero and pally, but luck>str in price. Not that I want them to hit as hard as a hero.

I think you misunderstood, I'm saying that they have as many gear options as hero and pally, but luck>str in price. Not that I want them to hit as hard as a hero.

The only items that are scrolled differently for Shadowers are daggers as opposed to swords and the option to scroll luk tops instead of str tops.

I'm too lazy to read through all of the TL;DRs in this thread, but if I've got this right, are you guys seriously debating over whether it's better to go LUK or STR? STR gets DKJ; good luck finding a Maple Shield that'll put you on par with a STR Shadower without pissing away your entire wallet.

I never understood why LUK Shadowers think they sit on the top tier of Shadower builds. The only LUK Shadowers that top out STR ones are the ones with hacked Dragon's Tails, 50 LUK Saunas, and 25 ATK Maple Shields. With Item Maker out, their limited choices of equipment are already on the verge of becoming obselete, and when the eventual release of additional HTP eggs makes its way to GMS, which type of Shadower is going to be taking advantage of 156 stats?

Why would you want to waste so much money to hold an ugly shield and a level 80 dagger? In the end, you'll still suck.

I'm too lazy to read through all of the TL;DRs in this thread, but if I've got this right, are you guys seriously debating over whether it's better to go LUK or STR? STR gets DKJ; good luck finding a Maple Shield that'll put you on par with a STR Shadower without pissing away your entire wallet.

I never understood why LUK Shadowers think they sit on the top tier of Shadower builds. The only LUK Shadowers that top out STR ones are the ones with hacked Dragon's Tails, 50 LUK Saunas, and 25 ATK Maple Shields. With Item Maker out, their limited choices of equipment are already on the verge of becoming obselete, and when the eventual release of additional HTP eggs makes its way to GMS, which type of Shadower is going to be taking advantage of 156 stats?

Why would you want to waste so much money to hold an ugly shield and a level 80 dagger? In the end, you'll still suck.

actually, the debate was, at first, how much funding you needed to be a *decent* shadower, then, low base stats>atk vs atk>low base stats. And scrolling a top with str for lower base str, which would lower the resale value, and scrolling a top for luk, which has a higher resale value.

My opinion was, a good balance of both, maybe stack on more atk if possible, and scroll whichever you need for whatever build you want and don't let resale value affect your decision.

And scrolling a top with str for lower base str, which would lower the resale value, and scrolling a top for luk, which has a higher resale value.

Does it even matter? The tax you lose on 3 billion mesos is higher than what a 20 str top would cost anyway. Buying that 18 atk glove and 30 atk shield is gonna waste more money than you'd save from reselling a luk top.

Does it even matter? The tax you lose on 3 billion mesos is higher than what a 20 str top would cost anyway. Buying that 18 atk glove and 30 atk shield is gonna waste more money than you'd save from reselling a luk top.

um, lol stereo, i brought that up because thats what one of the debates was, and, im all for scrolling whatever you need, idc about what you can resell lol, because being able to resell any leftover equips at all is a nice little bonus and incentive to upgrade, but i never saw it as a factor in what i scrolled.

and yea, it doesn't matter =P.

Damage is over rated. Play the way you want to. I'm capping my dex at 120 and str at 40 because I want to wear the 120 gear with just a MoN, cape, and decently scrolled z-helm.