Some NW mechanics questions

Am I missing something with Sudden Attack? I always get a lower DPS, not the 2% increase mentioned here

According to the Attack Speed Reference, Darksight take 240 ms (miliseconds) to cast, and maxed out speed TT/L7 takes 600 ms to cast.

with Sudden Attack, it takes 840 ms to cast a 130% damage attack, or 130/840 = 0.1548 percent damage per ms, or 154.8% damage per second.

without Sudden Attack, it takes 600 ms to cast a 100% damage attack, or 100/600 = .1666 percent damage per ms, or 166.6% damage per second.

By "percent damage" I mean damage done in a regular TT (or L7). So 150% damage per second means you do the damage of 1.5 Triple Throws in one second. Shadow Partner, onyx apples, and other specific damage boosts were ignored since Sudden Attack multiplies your regular damage after those sorts of boosts (right?).

So yeah, what am I doing wrong?

Am I missing something with Sudden Attack? I always get a lower DPS, not the 2% increase mentioned here

According to the Attack Speed Reference, Darksight take 240 ms (miliseconds) to cast, and maxed out speed TT/L7 takes 600 ms to cast.

with Sudden Attack, it takes 840 ms to cast a 130% damage attack, or 130/840 = 0.1548 percent damage per ms, or 154.8% damage per second.

without Sudden Attack, it takes 600 ms to cast a 100% damage attack, or 100/600 = .1666 percent damage per ms, or 166.6% damage per second.

By "percent damage" I mean damage done in a regular TT (or L7). So 150% damage per second means you do the damage of 1.5 Triple Throws in one second. Shadow Partner, onyx apples, and other specific damage boosts were ignored since Sudden Attack multiplies your regular damage after those sorts of boosts (right?).

So yeah, what am I doing wrong?

The 2% increase is only with max TT and SP. Everything else gets reduced DPS.

I would like to note that having sudden attack is a good idea for the Boss/Mu Lung PQs, in that you can DS after each boss while starting the next fight for a minor damage improvement. Not significant, but it can't hurt.

The 2% increase is only with max TT and SP. Everything else gets reduced DPS.

But I thought that Sudden Attack bonus was applied after TT, and SP is multiplicative, so it's interchangeable with Sudden Attack because of order of operations. Though I have been hearing a bit SP being unnaturally boosted by Sudden Attack (sorta like Crit + SE), is this true?

But I thought that Sudden Attack bonus was applied after TT, and SP is multiplicative, so it's interchangeable with Sudden Attack because of order of operations. Though I have been hearing a bit SP being unnaturally boosted by Sudden Attack (sorta like Crit + SE), is this true?

I'm just quoting JoeTang.

But I thought that Sudden Attack bonus was applied after TT, and SP is multiplicative, so it's interchangeable with Sudden Attack because of order of operations. Though I have been hearing a bit SP being unnaturally boosted by Sudden Attack (sorta like Crit + SE), is this true?

Sudden attack works like this:
original damage without darksight would be 10k 10k 10k 5k 5k 5k
damage with darksight before casting would be 13k 13k 13k 8.45k 8.45k 8.45k
SP will do 65% of YOUR TT damage instead of just half of it.

I would like to note that having sudden attack is a good idea for the Boss/Mu Lung PQs, in that you can DS after each boss while starting the next fight for a minor damage improvement. Not significant, but it can't hurt.

Pretty much the only place I used it, except for pap's 1st body (when it hides) and in 2nd body when you're trying to evade his dmg by going into darksight. It could be used at newties snipe spot when you're waiting for it to spawn, as well.
Whoever has a 100+ NW with sudden attack should try ACTUAL testing with ds then TT in a macro.

if uw ant. drop avenger. put it only to like 21 when it hits 6 monsters. the rest leaves u with around 9 SP for whatever skill you need. and once you hit 120 ( or leech there anyway) it doesnt matter cause avenger is pretty pathetic for bossing and your done training anyway.

if uw ant. drop avenger. put it only to like 21 when it hits 6 monsters. the rest leaves u with around 9 SP for whatever skill you need. and once you hit 120 ( or leech there anyway) it doesnt matter cause avenger is pretty pathetic for bossing and your done training anyway.

I was thinking of dropping several skills.

Perhaps:
- lv 19 mastery
- lv28 poison bomb
- no 1 point in shadow web

This will result 5 points in Vanish. 5 more from Vanish or Avenger.
Wait-- does Venom work with Vampire?
If yes, drop Avenger for sure?
If no, drop Vampire to lv16 and Avenger to lv29 or steal a point from Alchemist or booster?

mastery is fine for 19. unless ur OCD and want 20 jus cause it looks pretty. avenger is quite useless once you reach the end of your life (120) and people can make do with a max TT instead.

shadow web is completely useless but bomb might be worth something. it works at himes so who knows.

i left avenger at 21
maxed fj, alchemist, TT, bomb. id probly max vampire instead of vanish cause vanish is an ok skill but it seems a hassle to remember to cast ds each time you want a small boost in power.

IMO, bombs are good at early stages for levelling, but after that, meh.

At level 120, avenger > bomb (IMO). Also, at that level, there isnt much use in vanish. Muling dojo is only a temporary thing. Once you got your attack belt, that's the end of it.

Then again, at level 120, your cygnus is pretty much done for. All you can do (productively) is to hunt area bosses. Otherwise, you can pap/pianus (and maybe zakum) and that's pretty much it. It is very situational when you can use vanish. Tho, if you're looking for max damage build, then vanish at the cost of 21 avenger is the way to go. Max mastery coz it looks purtey with 1200/1000 stars.

Wait-- does Venom work with Vampire?

The answer can make all the difference, I think.
So what's the answer? :o

The answer can make all the difference, I think.
So what's the answer? :o

All attacks work with Venom, even Poison Sling. You can throw 1 bomb and trigger 2 Venoms at once!

All attacks work with Venom, even Poison Sling. You can throw 1 bomb and trigger 2 Venoms at once!

Evil :3

So Avenger is pointless, I knew it.

yes.
once per second the cloud has an x% chance of poisoning (skill level based). the only requirement is that the monster have > 1 hp. cant poison at 1, and once you get a high level skill a suspiciously unpoisoned monster is an easy way to tell it needs to die.

Ooh, thanks. I forgot to check this thread in a long time, lol.
Then given a cloud that lasts long enough, monsters inside it will keep the poisoned state refreshed each second, which practically doubles the poisoning potential. Neat!!