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+---- Thread: Some NW mechanics questions (/showthread.php?tid=14092)
Some NW mechanics questions - Sinnuendo - 2009-07-27
Two days left and I still don't know some of this stuff. :/
1. Take a look at some NW videos in which they use Vampire. It seems to be 4 separate hits (it knocks back monster way more than say, Strafe). Does this mean that WDEF would kick in for all four hits?
2. Is Poison Sling's poison non-elemental (to fit the Dark theme) or Poison-element?
3. How the hell am I supposed to mist skeles at say, level 90 without dumping tons of AP into HP (or washing, which I can't do) AND having an HB mule?
Some NW mechanics questions - MasPan - 2009-07-27
Sinnuendo Wrote:Two days left and I still don't know some of this stuff. :/
1. Take a look at some NW videos in which they use Vampire. It seems to be 4 separate hits (it knocks back monster way more than say, Strafe). Does this mean that WDEF would kick in for all four hits?
2. Is Poison Sling's poison non-elemental (to fit the Dark theme) or Poison-element?
3. How the hell am I supposed to mist skeles at say, level 90 without dumping tons of AP into HP (or washing, which I can't do) AND having an HB mule?
[color="#cc8899"]1. Dunno
2. Seperate element
3. You do have 70 extra AP.[/COLOR]
Some NW mechanics questions - Devil - 2009-07-27
Sinnuendo Wrote:Two days left and I still don't know some of this stuff. :/Answers in BOLD
1. Take a look at some NW videos in which they use Vampire. It seems to be 4 separate hits (it knocks back monster way more than say, Strafe). Does this mean that WDEF would kick in for all four hits?
WDef always kicks in the same way with every skill, unless a skill ignores wdef (Assaulter / Sacrifice).
Example with 1000 wdef, 2000 avg base damage = 2000-500 (from wdef)= 1500 effective avg dmg range after wdef:
- 6-hit SavageBlow (6*80%) = 480% => 6*0.8*1500 = 7200 damage per Savage Blow
- (Hypotecial) 1-hit SavageBlow (1*480%) = 480% => 1*4.8*1500 = 7200 damage per Savage Blow
So it doesn't matter how many hits an attack is, the wdef is always calculated before the skill damage percentage is applied.
So it doesn't matter if a skill is 1 or 4 or 6 hits. Some people think it matters but it doesn't.
Edit: Unless the damage done is lower then the wdef penalty itself, but that's not the case in most situations...
2. Is Poison Sling's poison non-elemental (to fit the Dark theme) or Poison-element?
There are 3 Poisons in Maple (all stackable) Venom / Poison elements:
- Poison Mist Poison damage
- Poison Sling Poison damage
- Venomous Star/Stab Poison damage
(and then offcourse there are the Ice and Fire DOT effects, which also separately stack).
3. How the hell am I supposed to mist skeles at say, level 90 without dumping tons of AP into HP (or washing, which I can't do) AND having an HB mule?
Noone says you're SUPPOSED to poison Skelegons at lvl90, there are other monsters!
Some NW mechanics questions - Russt - 2009-07-27
Number two is asking if the actual hit caused by Poison Sling has an elemental attribute, I think. If there is a hit in the first place, which I'm not clear on either.
Damage over time effects are always neutral element (more precisely, they are not affected by elemental attributes).
Some NW mechanics questions - Arrg - 2009-07-27
Poison sling either has no element or it has its own element.
I can poison anything and everything excluding bosses.
Some NW mechanics questions - Tykian - 2009-07-27
Just saying, by the time you have Poison Sling, you'd have Haste and Flash Jump maxed. If you can't get away from a Skelegon, you're doing it horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.
Or make a Buccaneer/Striker and never take damage again.
Or not.
Some NW mechanics questions - Loose - 2009-07-27
Would I be able to "Poison" Crimson Guardians with Poison Sling?
Some NW mechanics questions - Kalovale - 2009-07-27
How many seconds does it take to bring a mob from full HP to 1?
Some NW mechanics questions - Dusk - 2009-07-27
Kalovale Wrote:How many seconds does it take to bring a mob from full HP to 1?
70-(points in skill)
Some NW mechanics questions - Kalovale - 2009-07-27
Dusk Wrote:70-(points in skill)
So 30 secs at max lvl, and I can bring a mob down to 1 HP with lvl 1 sling?
I also have a slight dilemma regarding skills.
Since we only have 120 SPs for 2nd job and 110 of which already went to 'apparent' skills: mastery, critical, haste, FJ, and Vampire which leaves me with 10 SPs for either Sudden Attack or Booster. This leaves me with 2 possible solutions:
- Having lvl 1 Sudden Attack just for the 'fun' and convenience of attacking without having to cancel ds, lvl 9 booster.
- Getting both and substitute missing SPs with a combined sacrifice of Alchemist and Avenger, probably getting lvl 10~13 Alchemist and 27~30 Avenger.
Some NW mechanics questions - Dusk - 2009-07-27
Kalovale Wrote:So 30 secs at max lvlIt maxes at 30. 70-30 = 40 seconds
Quote: and I can bring a mob down to 1 HP with lvl 1 sling?level 1 Sling only lasts 4 seconds, so sure, if you want to poison the mob ceiling(69/4) = 18 times.
Quote:Since we only have 120 SPs for 2nd job and 110 of which already went to 'apparent' skills: mastery, critical, haste, FJ, and Vampire which leaves me with 10 SPs for either Sudden Attack or Booster. This leaves me with 2 possible solutions:You get 121 SP. I'd leave Booster at 10. WHY WOULD YOU DROP ALCHEMIST. DON'T DO IT.
- Having lvl 1 Sudden Attack just for the 'fun' and convenience of attacking without having to cancel ds, lvl 9 booster.
- Getting both and substitute missing SPs with a combined sacrifice of Alchemist and Avenger, probably getting lvl 10~13 Alchemist and 27~30 Avenger.
Some NW mechanics questions - Sinnuendo - 2009-07-27
Kalovale Wrote:So 30 secs at max lvl, and I can bring a mob down to 1 HP with lvl 1 sling?
I also have a slight dilemma regarding skills.
Since we only have 120 SPs for 2nd job and 110 of which already went to 'apparent' skills: mastery, critical, haste, FJ, and Vampire which leaves me with 10 SPs for either Sudden Attack or Booster. This leaves me with 2 possible solutions:
- Having lvl 1 Sudden Attack just for the 'fun' and convenience of attacking without having to cancel ds, lvl 9 booster.
- Getting both and substitute missing SPs with a combined sacrifice of Alchemist and Avenger, probably getting lvl 10~13 Alchemist and 27~30 Avenger.
Max level does 1/40 of a monster's HP each second, so 40 seconds.
It's actually 121, so even with 1 SA you'd end up with 10 Booster.
Alchemist is almost worthless in GMS besides 9.6 minute Warrior Elixers and 12 minute apples (our best NLC pots are % based, which Alchemist doesn't affect). It's probably still better than Avenger though.
@ other people: K, thanks. I was wondering most about the Poison thing, since Poison-immune monsters aren't poisonable (AFAIK), and Fire-immune aren't burnable (through Curtain).
The thing about the Haste/FJ thing is that I only have FJ experience from private servers (where you pretty much have invincibility anyway because of your unrealistically high HP/MP after a few rebirths). While I'd have an extra 40 levels to practice not jumping into stuff, I'd still like to survive a hit from a skele. Either way I can probably just dump 50 AP into HP from 80 to 90 or something.
@ Devil: What I mean is, I KNOW that it does that for say, Strafe, SB, or Barrage. However, don't they only KB once? Vampire does it 4 separate times (and has 4 chances to drain per monster), which leads me to think the DEF formula would hurt it more (which would make training on Windraiders with Vampire nearly impossible unless you're hitting a LOT of crits, because they'd end up taking what, 10 damage at the most from a non-crit with max Vamp and Mastery).
Edit: Plus, the fact that Vampire has separate chances to drain makes me think it's separate hits even more; Drain is 100% chance to drain no matter what level it is.
Some NW mechanics questions - Tykian - 2009-07-27
Kalo, dropping Alchemist could be JUST ABOUT the worst decision you could make.
In most cases, I would question the use of Sudden Attack all together, seeing as that attack is going to be pitiful damage-wise.
Edit for above: It appears from videos that you are correct, assuming this, I'd say that maybe Windraiders isn't a viable place for Vampire, hmm?
Another for the above: If you think you're going to actually get enough HP/MP on a Night Walker to make Honsters/Mana Bulls/Ginger whatevers worth it, you're sadly mistaken. When I say worth it though, I mean, more recovery for your buck, e. g. 2250 hp for 1500. You'd have to have at least 6720 total hp to move over to Honsters at that rate.
Some NW mechanics questions - Sinnuendo - 2009-07-27
Tykian Wrote:Kalo, dropping Alchemist could be JUST ABOUT the worst decision you could make.
In most cases, I would question the use of Sudden Attack all together, seeing as that attack is going to be pitiful damage-wise.
Edit for above: It appears from videos that you are correct, assuming this, I'd say that maybe Windraiders isn't a viable place for Vampire, hmm?
Another for the above: If you think you're going to actually get enough HP/MP on a Night Walker to make Honsters/Mana Bulls/Ginger whatevers worth it, you're sadly mistaken. When I say worth it though, I mean, more recovery for your buck, e. g. 2250 hp for 1500. You'd have to have at least 6720 total hp to move over to Honsters at that rate.
Ouch. I was planning to max Alch right after SP, anyway, but yeah. :/
Also, yeah, I was planning on spending 45 - 75 in Magatia (which won't be as crowded as it is in KMS anyway because of CWK). So yeah, I was just making sure. Either way, WRs could be viable with L7 but it probably wouldn't be as good as mobbing with Vamp.
Some NW mechanics questions - Tykian - 2009-07-27
I know i'm going to be mobbing Roids with mine, and when you WOULD be doing WR's, I would suggest Trying maybe Homunculus? I find mobbing there with my Marauder to be quite effective, even though the hp/exp ratio was much poorer.
Some NW mechanics questions - Punch - 2009-07-27
Sucks that Vampire doesn't hit in back of you or under you though...
It's just a better Avenger, really...
Some NW mechanics questions - EmuAlert - 2009-07-27
Does anyone know if you can use Sling without a claw? An emergency rescue tube could really help with HP. Still, though, by level 90, you'd have about 2.4k HP base, so with some decent HP equips you could probably get up to the 2.8k or so that you need to survive newties. Sorry to tell you, but you're never going to be able to survive skeles until you're almost level 120.
Oh, and for the skill build, I think the most accepted thing is to leave Booster at 10 and Sudden Attack at 1. Even when maxed, Sudden Attack actually slow down your DPM because of the cast time of Darksight.
Some NW mechanics questions - modular - 2009-07-27
EmuAlert Wrote:Oh, and for the skill build, I think the most accepted thing is to leave Booster at 10 and Sudden Attack at 1. Even when maxed, Sudden Attack actually slow down your DPM because of the cast time of Darksight.
with 10 SA dps is improved by a whopping ~30% of your damage range, or about 2% of total dps without sudden attack. worth it? bah.
for below: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13174
thinking the use of apples affects this type of calculation is a logical fallacy. =/ 1500% of your damage range is still 1500% whether your range is 1.5k-3k or 3k-6k.
Some NW mechanics questions - Arrg - 2009-07-27
modular Wrote:with 10 SA dps is improved by a whopping ~30% of your damage range, or about 2% of total dps without sudden attack. worth it? bah.
Say if you were able to do 20/20/20 with SP doing 10/10/10.
SA would bump that up to 26k/26k/26k and 16.9/16.9/16.9 The effects would be far greater if apples and SE were added into the equation.
Some NW mechanics questions - Devil - 2009-07-27
EmuAlert Wrote:Does anyone know if you can use Sling without a claw?Just checked skill.wz, and it says psling requires weapon(class) 47, which is a claw.
So yeah, you need to wear a claw to be able to use that skill.