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+---- Thread: Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump (/showthread.php?tid=40625)
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - JoeTang - 2011-04-15
I calculated the following using a simple simulator, taking in the cast times of each skill, and the optimal delay resulting to time damage over time as efficiently as possible.
Single Target DPS:
All Archmage attack speeds are calculated at Booster -3
Spoiler
Damage:Constant Paralyze spam, recast Fire Demon, Big Bang when DoT runs out, Poison Mist after each Mist Eruption, each with Teleport in between, Meteo off cool down
It was assumed that the monster will always have two DoTs (Poison Mist and Paralyze) and thus take a 1.5x bonus for Mist Eruption, from what I see in its description.
With Meteo:
2652.5%/s + 705.7%/s DoT average
Without Meteo:
2788.5 + 560.0%/s DoT
Without Teleport:
1992.4%/s + 705.7%/s DoT average
Without Teleport or Meteo:
2077.0%/s + 560.0%/s DoT
Using Teleport without Fire Demon or Big Bang:
2850.26%/s + 380%/s DoT
+132%/s Ifrit before any modifiers
Ice/Lightning:
Spoiler
Constant Chain Lightning spam, recast Ice Demon, and Glacial Chain when DoT runs out, Blizzard off cool down, Teleport in between everything2580.7%/s + 272.8%/s DoT average
Without Blizzard:
2760.0%/s + 205.0%/s DoT
Without Teleport:
1924.3%/s + 205%/s DoT
Without DoTs:
2943.2%/s
+108.9%/s Elquines before modifiers
Bishop:
Spoiler
Angel Ray Teleport spam:1766.7%/s
+198.0%/s Bahamut before modifiers
DPS is calculated with Elemental Amplification if applicable and Critical. Summons are assumed to attack at 3030ms.
DoT is effectively 100/87.5x the DoT% in comparable DPS, and is unaffected by any modifiers except elemental advantage. This means that PDR will not affect DoTs, even though it will affect your main DPS.
Arcane Ames will diminish the effectiveness of DoT casting, as they are unaffected by modifiers.
DoTs effectiveness can be judged by DoT% * 100/87.5, and then added on top of the %/s DPS with PDR factored in. As such, if we assume that Arcane Ames is another 1.4x modifier on top of Elemental Amplification, it can be determined that if an I/L can effectively maintain the stack effect of Arcane Ames, using DoTs will not be beneficial, and F/Ps can effectively use Fire Demon and instant Big Bang to contribute towards a higher DPS.
Conclusions:
F/P: Meteo is really bad DPS
F/P: Best DPS is to spam Paralyze and cast Mist Eruption when it is off cool down, recasting Mist after it is detonated, and keeping Big Bang and Fire Demon DoT timers up
I/L: Blizzard is really bad DPS
I/L: If you can use Extreme Magic and/or Arcane Ames, DoT should never be beneficial to DPS.
I/L: Best DPS is to spam Chain Lightning.
Bishops: Nothing actually changed. Congrats.
P.S. before anyone peaches about it, I didn't explicitly include Arcane Ames in the final %/s because 1) we can't be guaranteed it does 1.4x damage, and 2) every one of these jobs gets it.
10 * 1.4 is still twice as large as 5 * 1.4. Elemental Amplification and Criticals were included because Chain Lightning and Holy Focus affect them differently, and Bishops don't get Amplification.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Shidoshi - 2011-04-15
Happy face =D
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Takebacker - 2011-04-15
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
AMs are twice as strong as buccaneers now.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Shidoshi - 2011-04-15
Takebacker Wrote:Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
AMs are twice as strong as buccaneers now.
No use comparing a class before JUMP and one before it.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Takebacker - 2011-04-15
Shidoshi Wrote:No use comparing a class before JUMP and one before it.
True, but comparisons going to happen anyway until they finish with everyone.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - JoeTang - 2011-04-15
For comparison, Chaos numbers:
Paralyze Teleport: 2268.2%/s + 140% DoT
Chain Lightning Teleport: 2640.8%/s
Angel Ray Teleport: No change
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - donovan - 2011-04-15
I/L NEED MOAR, but there is still more testing so power to them.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Chilly - 2011-04-15
Paralyze is 257% X 3 not 4. Don't have the time to follow if that was carried into the calculations or just a typo, but I'll assume it was.
I'm curious to know how much better F/P are for at high M.Def monsters (specifically Mist Eruption), but that of course, isn't a request, just a general statement.
It's a shame that TM contributes so much to DPS, I frequently am unable to maintain that and perfect no delay CL spam. There is always a tiny bit of lag that slows constant CL, not to mention KB from attacking monsters, etc.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - JoeTang - 2011-04-15
Chilly Wrote:Paralyze is 257% X 3 not 4. Don't have the time to follow if that was carried into the calculations or just a typo, but I'll assume it was.
I'm curious to know how much better F/P are for at high M.Def monsters (specifically Mist Eruption), but that of course, isn't a request, just a general statement.
It's a shame that TM contributes so much to DPS, I frequently am unable to maintain that and perfect no delay CL spam. There is always a tiny bit of lag that slows constant CL, not to mention KB from attacking monsters, etc.
WELL THAT EXPLAINS A LOT. Fixing.
Numbers look much more balanced now, thank you. I was awake for quite a while and doing this while I was playing a game, lol. Overlooked a small bug that wasn't counting Poison Mist's cast time and damage as well, which was fixed.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Shidoshi - 2011-04-15
JoeTang Wrote:WELL THAT EXPLAINS A LOT. Fixing.
Derp, that explains why we were SO much ahead I/Ls. Though I still believe we'll be ahead.
Are you considering extreme magic for F/Ps?
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - JoeTang - 2011-04-15
Shidoshi Wrote:Derp, that explains why we were SO much ahead I/Ls. Though I still believe we'll be ahead.
Are you considering extreme magic for F/Ps?
You can add it yourself if you want, just multiply the non-DoT number by 1.2. It's all the well more likely it does work on bosses though, so you can see that F/Ps are still well ahead.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Kabanaw - 2011-04-15
There are two things they could do to increase I/Ls DPS with relative (maybe) ease
1) give bosses a flag when a regular creature would be frozen/stunned so I/Ls get a 20% damage boost, and
2) make I/Ls extreme magic 30% insta-kill instead extra damage to bosses, like 200-300% extra damage when it would insta kill.
Not sure how easy these changes would be, but at this point what's the point in even maxing extreme magic as an I/L?
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Shidoshi - 2011-04-15
JoeTang Wrote:Without Meteo:
2788.5 + 560.0%/s DoT
Using Teleport without Fire Demon or Big Bang:
2850.26%/s + 380%/s DoT
Nvm, recalculated using arcane ames and extreme magic and you'd need a Mdef of 73% or more for it to be better.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - donovan - 2011-04-15
Kabanaw Wrote:There are two things they could do to increase I/Ls DPS with relative (maybe) ease
1) give bosses a flag when a regular creature would be frozen/stunned so I/Ls get a 20% damage boost, and
2) make I/Ls extreme magic 30% insta-kill instead extra damage to bosses, like 200-300% extra damage when it would insta kill.
Not sure how easy these changes would be, but at this point what's the point in even maxing extreme magic as an I/L?
Nothing you'd max over it for one, it's still increased damage though, I doubt we will be to a point where classes are equal one will be better. An additional 10-20% Stun Rate for all skills would be nice, it'd bring Chain Lighting up to 100, Teleport Mastery anywhere from 90-100%, and the same with Thunder Spear.
How much is the additional damage for Extreme MAgic anyway?
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - JoeTang - 2011-04-15
Shidoshi Wrote:Nvm, recalculated using arcane ames and extreme magic and you'd need a Mdef of 73% or more for it to be better.
I believe you were correct the first time, unless I forgot something myself:
Without Meteo:
2788.5 + 560.0%/s DoT
= 2788.5 * 1.4 * 1.2 + 560/0.875
5324.7%/s
Using Teleport without Fire Demon or Big Bang:
2850.26%/s + 380%/s DoT
= 2850.26 * 1.4 * 1.2 + 380/0.875
5222.7%/s
And the difference should only get larger with more PDR.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Shidoshi - 2011-04-15
JoeTang Wrote:I believe you were correct the first time, unless I forgot something myself:
Without Meteo:
2788.5 + 560.0%/s DoT
= 2788.5 * 1.4 * 1.2 + 560/0.875
5324.7%/s
Using Teleport without Fire Demon or Big Bang:
2850.26%/s + 380%/s DoT
= 2850.26 * 1.4 * 1.2 + 380/0.875
5222.7%/s
And the difference should only get larger with more PDR.
I had forgotten that DoT does maximum damage.
Though infinity and elemental weapons weight in favor of not using DoT.
I'm lazy to calculate the new average multiplier for infinity, but Elemental weapons alone are not enough to make not using FD and BB worth it.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - JoeTang - 2011-04-15
Shidoshi Wrote:I had forgotten that DoT does maximum damage.
Though infinity and elemental weapons weight in favor of not using DoT.
Elemental Weapons probably. I thought Infinity increased your DoT damage too. Doesn't it work on your damage range and not your skill%? Either way, you could just stop refreshing every other DoT when Infinity is in action. If you look at it though, the difference is very minuscule at ~100%/s, and that's under perfect delay scenario. Most likely, server lag will prevent your cool downs from being optimal and DoT counting can be difficult, but it definitely gives a slight edge if done well. Poison Breath even adds ~40%/s overall since Extreme Magic raises its duration so much.
Big Bang + Fire Demon + Poison Breath on Paralyze Spam with Mist Eruption off cool down
2749.4%/s + 620%/s DoT
=5327.6%/s after Extreme Magic, Arcane Ames, and DoT normalising.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - IllegallySane - 2011-04-15
Takebacker Wrote:Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
AMs are twice as strong as buccaneers now.
Oh my god........ brb crying in a corner that my highest level class is now much weaker than a MAGE.
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - Kalemora - 2011-04-15
IllegallySane Wrote:Oh my god........ brb crying in a corner that my highest level class is now much weaker than a MAGE.What's so bad about mages being strong? :c
Mathematical Analysis of Magicians and DoT Post-Jump - IllegallySane - 2011-04-15
Kalemora Wrote:What's so bad about mages being strong? :c
Because my class now blows so hard. D: