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+--- Thread: Current state of KMST JOB Balance (/showthread.php?tid=39487)
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Dusk - 2011-03-20
iamflip Wrote:Now that seems much more favorable on my end. Where does it say more about the EXP thing though?
Patch notes:
7. 파티 사냥 시 경험치 분배 방식이 조정되었습니다.
이제 파티원 전원에게 균등 지급되는 경험치의 비중이 큰 폭으로 상향됩니다.
Don't totally understand what that means, but it definitely suggests that party EXP distribution is a lot more balanced now. I guess it isn't totally equal, though.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - IllegallySane - 2011-03-20
Suber Wrote:Demolition: Hit more than one monster. Idk how many though. If not that, at least make it faster.
Orb/Dragon Strike: Hit monsters more than once at a time.
Corkscrew: The way it was before Big Bang.
I also like what Devil said about Orb and Energy Charge. I'd be happy with that.
Demo: Nope, that doesn't fix our bad bossing DPS if it hits more than 1, and apparently Takebacker compains that making it faster will make the KB effect of Demo less effective (aka can't pin as well).
After seeing Dark Knights getting THIS in the lastest KMST:
[video=youtube;Ur-cPV8B5f0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur-cPV8B5f0[/video]
Give Buccs something more like this. We're long overdue for a true rapid version of Barrage.
Orb/Dragon Strike: We mostly need a farther reaching Orb. I don't like how close I have to be in order to toss it and bounce around. Would it kill them to increase the range to be more like Dragon Strike, so it IS better than Dragon Strike in all perspectives?
After seeing Spadow's blog and noticed how they are currently restructuring Warriors, I am crossing my fingers that Buccs get inspected, and thus be an LOL class no longer.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Takebacker - 2011-03-20
Demo hitting more mobs would just make us op on however many mobs it hits, and it'd probably have it's range/damage nerfed in exhange.
Orb has the horizontal bounce/cast range of csb, which i find isn't so bad but an increase in range would be nice. Sonething cool i found out (though inconsiquential) is that each bounce is a new attack meanin that when attacking grey vultures, the bounced attack will still hit through the iframes activated by the last attack because the attack on that vulture starts when the first group is hit, rather than when the attack is casted. Guess that means if you get a buff while it's bouncing it will affect the bounced attack.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - LegendGospel - 2011-03-20
My opinions as a 154 Bucc who has played since the class came out:
- Transformations are fine as they are. I don't mind being 10% of the time untransformed. Makes it all more realistic and dramatic. It's not all about power.
- Energy mode needs to be revived for 4th job. When you're 3rd job Energy mode is all the rage, you're waiting for energy all the time so you can spam E.Blast and use E.Drain. In 4th job when you get energy sure you can still use both, and E.Drain is ever useful, but most of the time at 4th job you'll be like "oh, energy is charged, whopee doo" while you keep spamming DS/Barrage. This is why we need a better energy move at 4th job. Make E.Orb work as mechanic's beam move ([SIZE="1"]well, not as overpowered, that pomegranate should get nerfed[/SIZE]), and like some guy said, make it drain all of your energy bar. Our ultimate move. We need back that excitement of being in energy mode. Like "holy$##$ I was chargin ma lazor and I can throw my lazor now!!1!!".
- Energy mode should be kept up as long as you keep hitting enemies with non-energy moves. Such as SSKick, FF, DS, Barrage, Demo, etc. If Arans keep their combo by hitting repeatedly, we should keep our energy bar by brawling constantly. If we stop attacking for X seconds, energy goes away. I don't mind how long it takes to fill the bar, as long as we can keep it with effort.
- Demolition and Barrage should both have reasons to be used. Demo is fine with the current delay, it just needs a little more damage. Barrage should be changed to be as spammable as Corsair's cannon, but being a weaker than it. Barrage should be a faster attack in exchange of poor range. While Demo is still op and ignores defense% as now.
- DS could use a little buff.
- Pre-BB CSB automatically makes them one of the most interesting classes. You can trade power for survivability, or just play post-BB style and spam the hell outta your skills for more damage (which is what most people will do, anyway).
Idem for my Bishop:
- If they wanna make us a real support class, make us the ones who have the following skills: Heal, Holy Symbol, Hyper Body, Combat Orders, Sharp Eyes, a Doom that doesn't suck, and a smart Bless. That's what I'd call a support class.
- If we're gonna keep our puny skills, give us something to attack. A beastly Bahamut, or a freaking ultimate holy attack. And I don't mean a little glorified holy arrow that does 10% the damage of a melee class.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Venomous - 2011-03-20
I feel that magicians have always, and should continue, to play supporting roles. It's just up to Nexon to make playing support roles valuable. What if arch mages had a skill that could significantly boost a party's magic avoid and magic defense, or the ability to grant their party temporary immunity to enemy attacks of their respective elements? Making bosses with incredibly strong elemental attacks would make arch mages very valuable assets in those boss fights. There is nothing wrong with playing support. Maplestory will become a very boring game if every class is redesigned to deal roughly equal damage.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Shidoshi - 2011-03-20
Venomous Wrote:I feel that magicians have always, and should continue, to play supporting roles. It's just up to Nexon to make playing support roles valuable. What if arch mages had a skill that could significantly boost a party's magic avoid and magic defense, or the ability to grant their party temporary immunity to enemy attacks of their respective elements? Making bosses with incredibly strong elemental attacks would make arch mages very valuable assets in those boss fights. There is nothing wrong with playing support. Maplestory will become a very boring game if every class is redesigned to deal roughly equal damage.
When did F/P and I/L ever play a supporting role?
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Kubi - 2011-03-20
I'm not complaining much, but new stuff that might help or add uniqueness is always welcome.
Archers could get a mobility skill similar to recoil shot, but archer style. Being able to attack while moving or jumping. That said, that gave me a bit more ideas. While both BMs and MMs can walk and shoot, why not give a BM the ability to jump and fire at the same time. And then give an MM the ability to duck and shoot at the same time. While doing that, they could add more bonuses while in the state of in the air or ducking. That would make them what they would be known for. At least imo. Maybe just some ideas to play with, who knows? o.o
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Abysseon - 2011-03-20
Shidoshi Wrote:When did F/P and I/L ever play a supporting role?
You know they need Meditation mules. ;D
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-03-20
Shidoshi Wrote:When did F/P and I/L ever play a supporting role?
In the days of no 4th job, F/P and I/L mages were taken to bosses to provide mob control and combat against hoardes of summons while 1 to 1 attackers fought the main boss itself. Though I've been gone for 3 years, I don't know how much this has changed, but in my opinion, mob/summon control is a support role.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Takebacker - 2011-03-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:In the days of no 4th job, F/P and I/L mages were taken to bosses to provide mob control and combat against hoardes of summons while 1 to 1 attackers fought the main boss itself. Though I've been gone for 3 years, I don't know how much this has changed, but in my opinion, mob/summon control is a support role.
Looking at the von leon model i don't think mob control to win is what they were going for lol
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Venomous - 2011-03-20
Shidoshi Wrote:When did F/P and I/L ever play a supporting role?
I sometimes forget not all of us were playing maple back when magician summon control was essential to successful zakum runs. Over time as attackers got stronger, the need for summon control and chief bandit bombings diminished.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Malthe - 2011-03-20
Venomous Wrote:I sometimes forget not all of us were playing maple back when magician summon control was essential to successful zakum runs. Over time as attackers got stronger, the need for summon control and chief bandit bombings diminished.
So hermits are supports too?
Because i still remember 3rd job zakum where hermits were great as anti-summons with avenger.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Suber - 2011-03-20
IllegallySane Wrote:Demo: Nope, that doesn't fix our bad bossing DPS if it hits more than 1, and apparently Takebacker compains that making it faster will make the KB effect of Demo less effective (aka can't pin as well).
After seeing Dark Knights getting THIS in the lastest KMST:
-snip-
Give Buccs something more like this. We're long overdue for a true rapid version of Barrage.
Orb/Dragon Strike: We mostly need a farther reaching Orb. I don't like how close I have to be in order to toss it and bounce around. Would it kill them to increase the range to be more like Dragon Strike, so it IS better than Dragon Strike in all perspectives?
After seeing Spadow's blog and noticed how they are currently restructuring Warriors, I am crossing my fingers that Buccs get inspected, and thus be an LOL class no longer.
Totally agree with you on the Orb change. Thats Orbs biggest flaw. I noticed Orb bounces down but not up. I dont mind it much though.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-03-20
Unleashing Wrote:So hermits are supports too?
Because i still remember 3rd job zakum where hermits were great as anti-summons with avenger.
That statement alone makes me wonder if you're trying to be sarcastic or if EMS has no idea how to play Maple Story.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - byakugan - 2011-03-20
@Rayquaza2233
Seal might be offensive but what use it has if you cannot kill the monster while it is sealed? I see it as a supportive skill since it would help your party kill bosses or anything way easier.
As for the % attack from bless, I expressed my idea wrong, I actually meant % damage, just like dark aura or mechanic's accelerator or w.e is called.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - donovan - 2011-03-20
ShanghaiDizzy Wrote:In the days of no 4th job, F/P and I/L mages were taken to bosses to provide mob control and combat against hoardes of summons while 1 to 1 attackers fought the main boss itself. Though I've been gone for 3 years, I don't know how much this has changed, but in my opinion, mob/summon control is a support role.
Venomous Wrote:I feel that magicians have always, and should continue, to play supporting roles. It's just up to Nexon to make playing support roles valuable. What if arch mages had a skill that could significantly boost a party's magic avoid and magic defense, or the ability to grant their party temporary immunity to enemy attacks of their respective elements? Making bosses with incredibly strong elemental attacks would make arch mages very valuable assets in those boss fights. There is nothing wrong with playing support. Maplestory will become a very boring game if every class is redesigned to deal roughly equal damage.
I loled, Archmages only party skill is Meditation, and Mob Control, lolno. Whether intended or not, the original manifestation of Archmages skills was always the ultimate trainers; we lack this ability now, and have not been compensated with any necessary niche in maple story bossing situations or training situations, right now the role of the 3 adv class as a whole is very ambiguous.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Luxeraph - 2011-03-20
CarrionCrow Wrote:Well, that would only have limited use. At stationary bosses to lure summons maybe. Would have been useful at Von Leon, but since he aint stationary he would also be following, which would make the whole thing useless. On normal training it is totally worthless anyway.
Could you explain me why its useless (I don't get it if you already said it, but thats likely my own fault), I look at it as a mobile puppet, I find puppet very useful and have seen people (mostly preBB) saying it was an awesome skill and is a kind of godmode, but its annoying to use since if your soloing its likely that you kill the mobs too fast (1 hit to make them aggro, puppet, then hit till death that is likely that it would take the same amount of time as summoning the puppet) or they are most of the time stunned/freezed and when in party if someone else deals more damage than you (I'm not sure on this) the puppet becomes useless.
I think it would become quite useful as more areas where party is needed due to boss like mobs, where most of us would be to weak to take more than a couple of hits.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Lozmaster - 2011-03-20
Luxeraph Wrote:Could you explain me why its useless (I don't get it if you already said it, but thats likely my own fault), I look at it as a mobile puppet, I find puppet very useful and have seen people (mostly preBB) saying it was an awesome skill and is a kind of godmode, but its annoying to use since if your soloing its likely that you kill the mobs too fast (1 hit to make them aggro, puppet, then hit till death that is likely that it would take the same amount of time as summoning the puppet) or they are most of the time stunned/freezed and when in party if someone else deals more damage than you (I'm not sure on this) the puppet becomes useless.
I think it would become quite useful as more areas where party is needed due to boss like mobs, where most of us would be to weak to take more than a couple of hits.
Puppet is useless if anyone else is doing anything to any monster you're trying to puppet, period.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-03-20
donovan Wrote:I loled, Archmages only party skill is Meditation, and Mob Control, lolno. Whether intended or not, the original manifestation of Archmages skills was always the ultimate trainers; we lack this ability now, and have not been compensated with any necessary niche in maple story bossing situations or training situations, right now the role of the 3 adv class as a whole is very ambiguous.
Perhaps if you've bossed in MapleStory before balance-breaking 4th job, you wouldn't laugh at the idea of mob control. In fact you still shouldn't laugh at the idea of mob control.
Current state of KMST JOB Balance - Abysseon - 2011-03-20
Venomous Wrote:I sometimes forget not all of us were playing maple back when magician summon control was essential to successful zakum runs. Over time as attackers got stronger, the need for summon control and chief bandit bombings diminished.
I doubt that developers held a support role in mind for a class providing mob control at zakum pre 4th job.
I/L (thunder spear/slow at pap?) and F/P mages were designed for attacking roles with no skills
to provide for partying while priests were for support with skills such as heal, hs, and door.
Although now, I think that bishops play a hybrid attack (angel ray being increased to 900% in chaos) and support role similar to battle mages/evans.
Archmages are currently the only 4th job mage class without any support skills (excluding maple warrior).
donovan Wrote:I loled, Archmages only party skill is Meditation, and Mob Control, lolno. Whether intended or not, the original manifestation of Archmages skills was always the ultimate trainers; we lack this ability now, and have not been compensated with any necessary niche in maple story bossing situations or training situations, right now the role of the 3 adv class as a whole is very ambiguous.
That wasn't evident until nlc pots and during 4th job testing, most of the mages were considering cl/para first.
You can even see this with the early 4th job vids in kms showing archmages training with chain lightning/paralyze, summons, and ice/fire demon.