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+--- Thread: Character worth (/showthread.php?tid=19844)
Character worth - Takebacker - 2009-12-01
King Wrote:And what's wrong with that??
All class has ability to solo but not all are party friendly
for example 4th job mages are essentially the same since all u r doing is spamming ult at a corner of the map when you solo...but bishops are party friendly and use half as much pots...well I guess that's the price you have to pay inorder to feel special
There is no class in this game that is party unfriendly.
Character worth - Punch - 2009-12-01
My first character in MapleStory was a Permanent Beginner until Level 44.. beat that
Character worth - psychopat - 2009-12-01
Personally, any character I enjoy has worth. I don't give a crap what others think. I picked the class that looked the most interesting at the time, trying to get one of every main branch in order to have some variety, making the game more fun. I made, in order:
58 cleric (was a cleric in beta, liked it, so I made a new one)
64 sin (bandit looked boring to me)
117 xbow (comparing lvl28 xbow to 25 bow made it a no brainer. Getting Ice Shot when 3rd came out was just a bonus)
60 page (wanted a sword, 3rd job Fighter looked annoying)
48 brawler
50 dawn warrior
50ish blaze wizard
Didn't bother with the thief cygnus since it looked too similar to Sin. Same logic on the the archer Cygnus.
Several of those will never have "worth" in the eyes of others but, as long as I have fun playing them, that really doesn't matter. I'll probably make an Aran & an Evan a couple months after those come out too, just to experience the difference.
Anyway, a character will have as much worth as you give it. For example, taking down a bigfoot solo at 114 shows that my xbow isn't useless... I know several 120+s that still have never done it.
King Wrote:Yes you are right on...I think I made my point pretty clearKeep in mind that a lot of us created our characters before third job was even out, much less fourth. Back then, spearmen were regarded as the best warriors and xbows as the best archers. Nowadays, people view these as throwaway classes and only useful as HB & SE mules even though that's flawed logic. This is not through the fault of the characters' owners at all; some classes just won the 3rd & 4th job lottery and some got the short end of the stick.
I mean no one forced you to choose a certain class so you have to live with ur decision
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
Nexon doesn't change classes much (which they should) to try and balance out how new classes compare to existing classes, and to fix how classes scale compared to one another or when something new is released (onyx apple).
example - Nightlords gain much more per atk power as opposed to a shadower
If a shadower had billions of mesos worth of extra equips over an NL, it wouldn't matter much. The gap in damage is just too big. NLs don't train any slower either after a certain point.
Guess what I'm going to mention next? Yup it's WoW and Blizzard
. Blizz changes their classes constantly. Every major update every single class gets changed to keep balance from gear scaling and boss encounters. Nexon really needs to do the same.If barrage or bstep/SB did as much as triple throw or SoA, then we wouldn't see guild leaders going "sorry i'm going to take this NL or BM over your shad/bucc", and when I played, I saw it a lot.
Yah mages are great for leeching people and quick leveling, but that's about it. You don't see many mages at boss fights due to their poor single target damage. If Nexon would cut back on the blizz/genesis/meteo spam damage, and up mage's single target damage, then mages would probably appreciate it. Overkilling a a skele by 40k damage is cool and all, but if I was a mage, i'd rather take away that 40k aoe and turn it into single target DPS.
Guilds stack NLs and BMs because their damage is just ridiculous. Speed zak runs are nothing but a ton of them with apples.
If Nexon decides it would rather not give other classes closer single target damage compared to each other, then they should give classes other abilities that allow them spots on boss runs. Give classes attack power/ magic atk power group buffs that stack with apples or buffs that cut down damage take by X amount. SOMETHING to give every class a reason to be brought into a group.
TL;DR- Nexon just sucks at balancing, plain and simple.
Character worth - Lozmaster - 2009-12-01
DrRusty Wrote:If barrage or bstep/SB did as much as triple throw or SoA, then we wouldn't see guild leaders going "sorry i'm going to take this NL or BM over your shad/bucc", and when I played, I saw it a lot.If they did as much, i'd expect them to be changed to single target attacks then/
Quote:Yah mages are great for leeching people and quick leveling, but that's about it. You don't see many mages at boss fights due to their poor single target damage. If Nexon would cut back on the blizz/genesis/meteo spam damage, and up mage's single target damage, then mages would probably appreciate it. Overkilling a a skele by 40k damage is cool and all, but if I was a mage, i'd rather take away that 40k aoe and turn it into single target DPS.Want to take that AOE away and make a DPS attack? Good, theres at elast 5 character jobs that fit that right now, feel free to make one of them instead of a mage. There is no point making mages like every other class in the game instead of making them mobber classes.
Quote:Guilds stack NLs and BMs because their damage is just ridiculous. Speed zak runs are nothing but a ton of them with apples.
The jobs that don't have good mobbing attacks have higher single target damage. Amazing.
Really, there isn't any confusion left in maplestory, if you want to train fast, you can make a mage, then there is a [roughly] sliding scale of decreasing your exp gain for more DPS, which is as complicated as a game like maple needs to be. If you don't mind training slower, but want to have a much easier time getting into bosses, it's not a big secret which classes to go for that either.
Character worth - Greg - 2009-12-01
DrRusty Wrote:TL;DR- Nexon just sucks at balancing, plain and simple.
I've been thinking about this. I always used to bash on Nexon for having the most unbalanced classes I've ever seen in an MMO, but now that I've thought about it, they're not unbalanced at all. Corsairs and NLs are the two hardest-hitting classes, but just look at them; they take hits like little girls and have no variety in their arsenal of attacks.
Seems balanced to me. When Aran is released that'll all change. ;~;
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
Lozmaster Wrote:If they did as much, i'd expect them to be changed to single target attacks then/.
If they brought down the number of mobs it hit to 3, and spread the damage throughout the bstep then maybe..... Look at it like this, in my shad video, me and a 16x shadower (andypandyz) both used apples to kill pap, and it took us just over 6 mins. A single apple'd NL can do it in the same amount of time. Okay... so that NL puts out double the single target DPS, do I train twice as fast as that NL as a shadower? no....... I don't.
Want to take that AOE away and make a DPS attack? Good, theres at elast 5 character jobs that fit that right now, feel free to make one of them instead of a mage. There is no point making mages like every other class in the game instead of making them mobber classes.
Mages get benched from boss runs because of their damage. To be honest I don't even think the aoe damage should be taken away, paralyze and chain lightning should be buffed or mages should get a party buff that helps more than one other class.
The jobs that don't have good mobbing attacks have higher single target damage. Amazing.
Maybe you should double check marksmen then. One of the best mobbing skills in the game that doesn't belong to a mage, and single target DPS almost equal to NLs/BMs.
Really, there isn't any confusion left in maplestory, if you want to train fast, you can make a mage, then there is a [roughly] sliding scale of decreasing your exp gain for more DPS, which is as complicated as a game like maple needs to be. If you don't mind training slower, but want to have a much easier time getting into bosses, it's not a big secret which classes to go for that either.
Bucs and shads don't train any faster than NLs, but get stomped on single target DPS.
Grog Wrote:I've been thinking about this. I always used to bash on Nexon for having the most unbalanced classes I've ever seen in an MMO, but now that I've thought about it, they're not unbalanced at all. Corsairs and NLs are the two hardest-hitting classes, but just look at them; they take hits like little girls and have no variety in their arsenal of attacks.A shadower taking half damage compared to an NL doesn't mean the shadower should have to dish out half damage as well. Even with mesos gaurd, shadowers still get two shotted the same as an NL, they just don't have to wash. A buccaneer's HP isn't much higher than an NLs is, but same thing, does about half the damage.
Seems balanced to me. When Aran is released that'll all change. ;~;
Character worth - Greg - 2009-12-01
DrRusty Wrote:.Here's where the OP's original post comes in to play. Night Lords have ONE ATTACK whereas Buccaneers and Shadowers have plenty. I don't mind dishing out half of a NL's damage because I know that they're not good for anything other than taking down Zakum bodies.
A shadower taking half damage compared to an NL doesn't mean the shadower should have to dish out half damage as well. Even with mesos gaurd, shadowers still get two shotted the same as an NL, they just don't have to wash. A buccaneer's HP isn't much higher than an NLs is, but same thing, does about half the damage.
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
Grog Wrote:Here's where the OP's original post comes in to play. Night Lords have ONE ATTACK whereas Buccaneers and Shadowers have plenty. I don't mind dishing out half of a NL's damage because I know that they're not good for anything other than taking down Zakum bodies.
During a boss fight
NL spams TT
Shadower does assassinate -> bstep (if there's a ledge a shadower can't even use bstep.... wtp is that?)
Buc does barrage -> dstrike (unless he xforms then he does mad tap 1 button)
Not exactly a ton of extra skills lol
I brought MrLifeStyles to HT once just for lulz, and I felt so useless when we were tryna kill the arms -_-"
Character worth - Alloy - 2009-12-01
DrRusty Wrote:During a boss fight
NL spams TT
Shadower does assassinate -> bstep
Buc does barrage -> dstrike (unless he xforms then he does mad tap 1 button)
Not exactly a ton of extra skills lol
I brought MrLifeStyles to HT once just for lulz, and I felt so useless when we were tryna kill the arms -_-"
What about time leap, haste, smoke screen, seduce bait...
Character worth - Corn - 2009-12-01
I'm not a high level like most of y'all, so I could really care less about class imbalance.
And why the hell do you want to be useful to those douchebags? It's contradictory.
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
Alloy Wrote:What about time leap, haste, smoke screen, seduce bait...
NOW i remember, I brought my shadower to HT as a sed mule lol. Completely forgot about that.
Shadowers are nice seduce bait, but that's one mechanic of one boss fight. I wouldn't exactly call shadowers balanced because of that. Smoke is nice, although I wish the cooldown was lower. Haste... brought by NLs
When I used my buc for HT, I didn't use time leap more than once out of like 10 runs, and that was the only reason I was there was for TL. I can see the problem if lesser leveled/geared guilds were doing HT, it would benefit them to bring an extra buc to reset the rez's.
That's the thing though, a guild may bring 1 shadower and buc to HT, but they'll bring NLs equal to slots not taken by a DK or bishop or BM/MM which doesn't seem fair to me. It wouldn't be so bad if the damage gap wasn't so huge, but the difference is just too much. Then we have the issue with a class like paladins who not only bring inferior damage, they don't hand out anything useful to the party.
I think Nexon has the tools and stuff to make the game better, they just don't do it. Things like, adding more skills into the game, extra buffs, and lowering how much SP is needed to max out one skill allowing classes to choose utility over damage or one skill over another. Right now, classes pretty much max out certain skills and leave out everything else, there's no real competition between skill X and Y.
Character worth - Dusk - 2009-12-01
Grog Wrote:I've been thinking about this. I always used to bash on Nexon for having the most unbalanced classes I've ever seen in an MMO, but now that I've thought about it, they're not unbalanced at all. Corsairs and NLs are the two hardest-hitting classes, but just look at them; they take hits like little girls and have no variety in their arsenal of attacks.
Seems balanced to me. When Aran is released that'll all change. ;~;
Corsairs have about as much variety in our attacks as Shadowers. NLs I agree with.
Combattente Wrote:I'll just say this:
lolmarksmen.
The game's gotten a lot more balanced since when 4th job first came out. MMs are pretty much just as good as BMs these days. All you lose is a little DPS and the ability to pin a boss or two.
- SE has become more important with all the new classes with base crits. People want you for SE regardless of which class you are.
- SI makes Strafe a lot stronger; doesn't affect Hurricane.
- Pierce went from being a glorified IA that you couldn't move for 2 seconds while using (sounds like Street Fighter) to one of the strongest mob skills in the game.
- Snipe adds a good chunk of damage and isn't useless now that it has a 5 (or 7) sec cooldown.
- GMS has gotten stronger overall. Even though this is still the land of the Onyx Apples, bosses like Zakum and HT are easy enough now that many groups cut back on the amount of Apples they use to save money. Some people don't use them at all. Without Apples MMs are right near the top in terms of 1v1 DPS.
The game is still really unbalanced, but at least the number of classes that are actually considered "valuable" has increased over time. Right now it's probably like this:
"Good/Valuable" classes
Heroes
DrKs
BMs
MMs
Bishops
NLs
Corsairs
which is over half of the 12 existing classes at least :/
"Decent" classes
Shadowers
Buccaneers
they're weaker than the above classes in just about every way and they aren't Bishops but they still provide very useful party buffs and are pretty hard to kill.
Then you have the classes that really need balancing.
Archmages
Paladins
It's a long way from when the only useful classes were Hermits, DKs, and Priests.
Character worth - Lozmaster - 2009-12-01
Quote:Mages get benched from boss runs because of their damage. To be honest I don't even think the aoe damage should be taken away, paralyze and chain lightning should be buffed or mages should get a party buff that helps more than one other class.
Ok screw it, i'm not answering the rest of your post until you think about that for a moment, NOW YOU WANT THEM TO BE THE FASTEST TRAINERS AND BE AS GOOD AS EVERYONE ELSE AT BOSSING. In that case I want hurricane to hit 6 targets at once. Sounds stupid doesn't it.
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
Lozmaster Wrote:Ok screw it, i'm not answering the rest of your post until you think about that for a moment, NOW YOU WANT THEM TO BE THE FASTEST TRAINERS AND BE AS GOOD AS EVERYONE ELSE AT BOSSING. In that case I want hurricane to hit 6 targets at once. Sounds stupid doesn't it.
No I didn't say that...... I said something comparable. Mages should never have equal damage to other single target DPSers, but they shouldn't be sat out because their damage is just that bad or take 3x as long to kill a boss. If Nexon helped out mages, then of course they should increase the damage of arrow rain/erruption, dragon pulse, and avenger (or at least increase poison damage). Just because you help classes in one area, doesn't mean you shouldn't help out other classes in other areas as well.
It's okay for a class to excel at something, but not to the point where everyone else is just left behind.
The way Blizz put it is to homogenize (I think that's what they said) classes and buffs. Not allowing most buffs to be brought by only one class, and not allowing one class to excel too far at one thing. That way everyone is able to come to anything no matter what class they picked.
I think just allowing an NL's poison damage to actually kill a mob would be more than enough to help them out. BMs could probably use a double increase in damage added to dragon pulse, and throw in a slow effect on mobs who are hit by it.
Shads and bucs- just allow crits without a mob being stunned for barrage. For shads, decrease charge time FFS.... charging assassination is actually lower DPS, and let shads use bstep when there's a ledge.
Character worth - Potora - 2009-12-01
I made my gunslinger on the first day pirates came out. At that point, there wasn't nearly as much information about Corsairs as there is now. I had no idea Corsairs would be as godly as they are in 4th job. I made gunslinger for the aspect of it looking like fun (especially because of that infamous "Float" video that came out). If I remember correctly, the "Infighter" was looked as the high damage dealer back then. Just play your character for fun and you will enjoy Maplestory with that + having friends, no matter what class. I remember being crazy in love with my gunslinger at level 10 just because of the fast attacking speed of double shot...and gunslingers are weak as sh'it.
But my opinion is based on not having a mage/paladin/shadower as a main character, but I've heard that any class can get in on boss runs if you have the right connections or organize your own runs. I've been on plently of zakum/pap/scarlion runs with I/L mages.
Character worth - IllegallySane - 2009-12-01
DrRusty Wrote:Shads and bucs- just allow crits without a mob being stunned for barrage. For shads, decrease charge time FFS.... charging assassination is actually lower DPS, and let shads use bstep when there's a ledge.
There was some discussion while you were gone in both the Pirate section and Maple Additions section, and it was more agreed just turning Stun Mastery into a Striker's Critical Punch (60% chance of doing 60% additional damage) would go a long way in making Buccaneers true bossing characters. I also wholeheartedly agree decreasing Assassinate's charge time would be great. Two simple fixes, for completely upgrading 2 classes that need love at dealing worthy bossing damage. Wouldn't require much work from Nexon other than changing the conditions for Stun Mastery, and change charge time of Assassinate to 1-2 seconds.
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
or they could increase the initial assassination hits if they didn't want to allow a 2 second max charged assassinate (man that would be fking awesome though).
Character worth - Stereo - 2009-12-01
DrRusty Wrote:For shads, decrease charge time FFS.... charging assassination is actually lower DPS, and let shads use bstep when there's a ledge.
Charging Assassinate should lower the dps - they would be boring as pineapple if all you did was sit still for 5 seconds, unleash a crazy attack, repeat. Assassinate's charge time lets you deal dps when other players can't - the boss is in its shell (pap) or invincible (damage reflect/phys immunity). What's the point of a shadower having umpteen different attacks if one is always the strongest? They'd be just like NLs... If every attack uses the same dynamic one ends up stronger in all situations.
Character worth - DrRusty - 2009-12-01
Stereo Wrote:Charging Assassinate should lower the dps - they would be boring as pineapple if all you did was sit still for 5 seconds, unleash a crazy attack, repeat. Assassinate's charge time lets you deal dps when other players can't - the boss is in its shell (pap) or invincible (damage reflect/phys immunity). What's the point of a shadower having umpteen different attacks if one is always the strongest? They'd be just like NLs... If every attack uses the same dynamic one ends up stronger in all situations.
increase uncharged damage and give it a 1 second cooldown.
bam problem solved
sorry i meant [SIZE="5"]**BAM**[/SIZE]