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+--- Thread: KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes (/showthread.php?tid=64590)
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - ShinkuDragon - 2013-05-31
Im sorry to be this blunt, but you're being retarded by thinking that bishops should be fixed, "kaiser doubles everyone's dps, so we should bring everyone to its level!" thats retarded.
Bishops are fairly balanced in comparison to the rest of the other classes, in fact, with the amount of buffs they provide they should be one of if not the weakest class in the game. This is an undeniable truth, the same way that nexon being terrible at balancing is an undeniable truth.
Buffers should have low dps, mixed should have medium, dps should be top, but look at ds when they came out, at xenons, at phantoms, the problem isnt bishops and the answer isnt to buff bishops, the problem is nexon adding power to whatever class is the new flavor of the month, disregsrding balancing issues.
Thats why i asked you which class should be the weakest, as it stands currently in gms, DrK have hyper body and crash only, and they have lower dps than bishops with dispel, heal, revive, door, hs and holy shield, do you think buffing bishops further is the "right" choice?
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - SoR0XaS - 2013-05-31
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Buffers should have low dps, mixed should have medium, dps should be top, but look at ds when they came out, at xenons, at phantoms, the problem isnt bishops and the answer isnt to buff bishops, the problem is nexon adding power to whatever class is the new flavor of the month, disregsrding balancing issues.
Nexon adds way too power and slams the nerfhammer too hard though. Look at post unlimited phantom, he had a HUGE nerf which discouraged people here in MSEA from playing it. Bishops are still pretty balanced though.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - MetaSeraphim - 2013-05-31
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Thats why i asked you which class should be the weakest, as it stands currently in gms, DrK have hyper body and crash only, and they have lower dps than bishops with dispel, heal, revive, door, hs and holy shield, do you think buffing bishops further is the "right" choice?
We are weaker than Bishops? Holy cow there is something massively wrong with this game.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - MiracleTrail - 2013-05-31
MetaSeraphim Wrote:We are weaker than Bishops? Holy cow there is something massively wrong with this game.
Bishops high have a dps than Dark Knights, GMS Luminous, Phantoms, Bowmasters, and Night Lords.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - ShinkuDragon - 2013-05-31
MetaSeraphim Wrote:We are weaker than Bishops? Holy cow there is something massively wrong with this game.
According to this, yes
http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=62432&title=Summarized%20%/s%20List
And comparing the info on the frontpage of the warrior and magi %threads...
Hyper, SE, No tele for bishops, we lose in 1v1 and 1v6 at all amounts of pdr, and very barely surpass them at 100% boss up to 40% pdr (cant see any further on my ipad ._.)
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - LegendGospel - 2013-05-31
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Im sorry to be this blunt, but you're being retarded by blahblah
It's fine, I only cried for 2 minutes.
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Bishops are fairly balanced in comparison to the rest of the other classes, in fact, with the
amount of buffs they provide they should be one of if not the weakest class in the game.
Maple Story = DPS
Poor DPS = poor class
Good buffing in Maple = nice mule
Your logic is trying to sell this idea: HEY WANNA PLAY THE WEAKEST CLASS IN THE GAME? BUT IT'S OKAY, BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE OTHER PLAYERS EVEN STRONGER AND MAKE THEM LEVEL FASTER THAN YOU.
ShinkuDragon Wrote:This is an undeniable truth
Behold the voicer of undeniable truth.
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Buffers should have low dps, mixed should have medium, dps should be top
Again, that doesn't work in this game.
It sort of worked before Big Bang. Sort of.
Right now? nope, terrible idea. It's DPS or die baby.
Your idea is excellent, in theory. Yet for it to work, they'd have to revamp the whole game, from monsters hp, damage, invincibility rates, pot cooldowns, the way status effects work, dps, etc etc...
ShinkuDragon Wrote:but look at ds when they came out, at xenons, at phantoms, the problem isnt bishops and the answer isnt to buff bishops, the problem is nexon adding power to whatever class is the new flavor of the month, disregsrding balancing issues.
I agree on this being the first half of the fix.
But the second part of the fix would be actually balancing the existing classes. Make each class actually play a role. And make that role freaking important.
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Thats why i asked you which class should be the weakest, as it stands currently in gms, DrK have hyper body and crash only, and they have lower dps than bishops with dispel, heal, revive, door, hs and holy shield, do you think buffing bishops further is the "right" choice?
Oh man, but you can increase everyone's HP/MP by 60%, you deserve to be weak!
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - ShinkuDragon - 2013-06-01
LegendGospel Wrote:It's fine, I only cried for 2 minutes.
Maple Story = DPS
Poor DPS = poor class
Good buffing in Maple = nice mule
Your logic is trying to sell this idea: HEY WANNA PLAY THE WEAKEST CLASS IN THE GAME? BUT IT'S OKAY, BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE OTHER PLAYERS EVEN STRONGER AND MAKE THEM LEVEL FASTER THAN YOU.
Behold the voicer of undeniable truth.
Again, that doesn't work in this game.
It sort of worked before Big Bang. Sort of.
Right now? nope, terrible idea. It's DPS or die baby.
Your idea is excellent, in theory. Yet for it to work, they'd have to revamp the whole game, from monsters hp, damage, invincibility rates, pot cooldowns, the way status effects work, dps, etc etc...
I agree on this being the first half of the fix.
But the second part of the fix would be actually balancing the existing classes. Make each class actually play a role. And make that role freaking important.
Oh man, but you can increase everyone's HP/MP by 60%, you deserve to be weak!
There we go, what needs fixing is the game balance, not bishops, easy as saying that.
On a semi-related note, plenty of bishops i know (eroticviet and icephoenix come to mind) are quite happy that they can actually attack and deal damage now while buffing the party, rather than be the "stop attacking, start buffing" mule they were pre-bb
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Pearly - 2013-06-01
I think some bishops here end up thinking that way because they have long suffered the circumstances in the game that don't promote partying, like what I have explained previously, e.g people being too self sufficient, game/cash items easily replacing their party roles, people getting too strong that they solo bosses in seconds/minutes (Obvious example would be to look at that LimGoon guy from KMS. lol). Giving them so many nice party buffs would be pointless if the circumstances in the game don't promote partying. Nexon has been ruining the partying aspect in this game, which all began from the time when they decided to introduce potential system.
I understand how LegendGospel feels coz I play a bishop too. In the past, I felt needed coz I could really help my party out with my important skills. I had an important role. Now? Bleah, why would they need me? They kill the boss in seconds/minutes. Die? Wheel. So simple. Even for empress runs post unlimited (with her freaking 63 bil HP), most squads don't even bring bishops. They simply bring classes with high status resistance (e.g. DS) while being able to bind the boss at the same time. Heck, even her stupid 1hitKO dark genesis (yeah, you 100% die if you don't avoid it
) cannot be "shielded" using holy magic shell, rendering bishops useless...again. What's support role in this game again, may I ask? 
Support class no longer works well in this game. I agree with that. The thing Nexon needs to do is to fix the game, which has become impossible to fix. How the hell are they going to fix the problem of people being too strong that they don't need partying? No way. I would be really impressed if they can even fix that.
A question: has kaiser ever been nerfed before?
It's so unfair that he is top in DPS and being self sufficient at the same time (60% base status resist + having hero will at the same time). He has magic crash-like skill too? Able to bypass reflect? What else? Why would this class need others' help with him being able to do things on his own because of how unfair the skills are designed? Stupid nexon is really stupid in balancing the classes
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - LegendGospel - 2013-06-01
ShinkuDragon Wrote:There we go, what needs fixing is the game balance, not bishops, easy as saying that.
On a semi-related note, plenty of bishops i know (eroticviet and icephoenix come to mind) are quite happy that they can actually attack and deal damage now while buffing the party, rather than be the "stop attacking, start buffing" mule they were pre-bb
I've been saying that the whole game needs a rebalance for quite some posts now <_<
Bishops are indeed pretty decent now, and the system of becoming stronger by buffing other players sounds great, as well as having our main attack heal people who get in the way of it.
Yet Nexon is taking 3 steps forward and 2 steps back with nerfing Angel Ray, and while Big Bang effects seem kinda interesting, Big Bang and Shining Ray are quite boring by now. Right, Bishops do have higher DPS than GMS Luminous, yet I really enjoyed playing Luminous because of many fun light skills that were neglected from Bishops. Proof that DPS isn't everything, and yet it is everything in a game like the current MS.
It is really fucking weird that DrKs are so weak, and like an user said above, proves that Nexon has no idea what they're doing. I don't think they have a real concept for DrKs, such as "Heroes are for attack, Paladins are for defense", then Dark Knights are for ???. They should be in the middle ground, but they currently pale in everything.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Grey - 2013-06-01
Hmm, I was just thinking, is it worth maxing Gen? I mean, since you can spam Big Bang during its cooldown and it has a higher cooldown at 1 vs 30, and from what I remember, casting it isn't exactly fast. Is spamming Big Bang for 30 seconds and then casting max Gen better than spamming Big Bang for 60 seconds and then casting level 1 Gen?
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - YennoX - 2013-06-01
LegendGospel Wrote:I've been saying that the whole game needs a rebalance for quite some posts now <_<
All I got from your whingeing was:
- DPS classes should have no utility and self-sufficiency at all, but only have marginally better damage
- the weaker classes should only be slightly weaker, but have all the nice perks
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - iVege - 2013-06-01
LegendGospel Wrote:Yet Nexon is taking 3 steps forward and 2 steps back with nerfing Angel Ray, and while Big Bang effects seem kinda interesting, Big Bang and Shining Ray are quite boring by now. Right, Bishops do have higher DPS than GMS Luminous, yet I really enjoyed playing Luminous because of many fun light skills that were neglected from Bishops. Proof that DPS isn't everything, and yet it is everything in a game like the current MS.
There is no problem with the nerfing of Angel Ray. There just needs to be an adjustment to Genesis and Big Bang's effects (and possibly Avenging Angel's too). I don't see how Big Bang or Shining Ray is more boring than Angel Ray. They're all spam skills (except for Big Bang) and you've obviously been using Angel Ray the most.
What do you mean by "fun light skills that were neglected from Bishops"? As far as I'm concerned, the only light skills you use are Reflection and Spectral Light. Not seeing how Reflection and Spectral Light were 'neglected from' Bishops either. Oh, and the reason why Spectral Light is used in the first place is because it has more DPS than Reflection, so I'm really not seeing what you're trying to say with your last sentenceĀthe only reason you have such a 'large' variety of two light skills is because of DPS.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - JoeTang - 2013-06-01
iAmFear Wrote:Hmm, I was just thinking, is it worth maxing Gen? I mean, since you can spam Big Bang during its cooldown and it has a higher cooldown at 1 vs 30, and from what I remember, casting it isn't exactly fast. Is spamming Big Bang for 30 seconds and then casting max Gen better than spamming Big Bang for 60 seconds and then casting level 1 Gen?
Negligibly different. ~50%/s in favour of level 1 Genesis.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - ZeekFox - 2013-06-01
I think Bishops in a full party technically do more damage. The loss of a hit on Angel Ray for 20% higher damage is a nerf, but in a full party, they get +25% damage, right?
Incorperating the +1 hit of the 150 hyper (though not the 50 Magic or 20% damage/PDR since that applies statically), Angel Ray's damage-
5 hits of 375 was 1875%
4 hits of 395 is 1580%, but in a full party with +25% damage, now 1975%, plus the heal effect.
Though there's also the slight nerf on Advanced Bless, which I think is kinda bad, but -8 Magic attack isn't that huge to funded players.
I'm totally on board with "Bishops aren't needed for bosses like they used to be" thing. I used to play the role of keeping people alive and unsealed at Zakum. But not only did Nexon make characters powerful enough not to need Bishops, they threw in stuff like Zombify and all sorts of stuff that cannot be dispelled. It used to be that Priests could dispel Seal, Blind, and Poison, but not Stun. Now? Status resistance can resist everything, but then you can't Dispel the transformations, jailing, seduce, potential lock, etc. Why have a skill to remove debuffs if nearly every new debuff is immune? I almost want Nexon to make a debuff the ignores resistance, but not Dispel, and something that NEEDS to be removed too, like a 30 second debuff that doesn't affect you while active, but kills you if it runs out of duration naturally and doesn't get dispelled. Or how about bosses that just banish pets? =P
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Silento - 2013-06-01
ZeekFox Wrote:I almost want Nexon to make a debuff the ignores resistance, but not Dispel, and something that NEEDS to be removed too, like a 30 second debuff that doesn't affect you while active, but kills you if it runs out of duration naturally and doesn't get dispelled.
This fixes one problem but creates a much bigger one. Instead of not really needing a Bishop to do a boss, now you HAVE to have one. It's completely impossible without one. This would force people to play Bishops just so they could boss with their guild/friends, whether or not they wanted to.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Takebacker - 2013-06-01
Silento Wrote:This fixes one problem but creates a much bigger one. Instead of not really needing a Bishop to do a boss, now you HAVE to have one. It's completely impossible without one. This would force people to play Bishops just so they could boss with their guild/friends, whether or not they wanted to.
Not exactly. You could have it work with hero's will. Or just simply right click the buff if you don't have that.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Silento - 2013-06-01
Takebacker Wrote:Not exactly. You could have it work with hero's will. Or just simply right click the buff if you don't have that.
Hero's will has a 6 minute cooldown. If the debuff was only applied every 6 minutes, then yea, sure, it would be fine. But if hero's will was on to long a cooldown compared to the frequency of the debuff, then you would still need a Bishop because the debuff automatically kills you, no strings attached.
If hero's will alone was enough to counter the debuff, its purpose is defeated already, as you wouldn't need a bishop.
Something similar that might work is a debuff that lowered your damage. This is also a pretty bad idea, though, because it makes the arbitrary "you must do this much damage to kill this boss in the time-limit" cutoff even more absurd.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Takebacker - 2013-06-01
Silento Wrote:Hero's will has a 6 minute cooldown. If the debuff was only applied every 6 minutes, then yea, sure, it would be fine. But if hero's will was on to long a cooldown compared to the frequency of the debuff, then you would still need a Bishop because the debuff automatically kills you, no strings attached.
If hero's will alone was enough to counter the debuff, its purpose is defeated already, as you wouldn't need a bishop.
Something similar that might work is a debuff that lowered your damage. This is also a pretty bad idea, though, because it makes the arbitrary "you must do this much damage to kill this boss in the time-limit" cutoff even more absurd.
If hero's will alone was enough i wouldn't have suggested the right click option in addition.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - KillerZero - 2013-06-01
according to Joetangs calculations, bishops currently do more damage than rebalanced paladins. ._. what more do you want q.q
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Dark Link - 2013-06-01
KillerZero Wrote:according to Joetangs calculations, bishops currently do more damage than rebalanced paladins. ._. what more do you want q.q
For Bishops to be the next Xenon, of course!