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+---- Thread: BM vs MM after KMST updates (/showthread.php?tid=9400)
BM vs MM after KMST updates - KaidaTan - 2009-03-19
Chameleonic Wrote:I'm about ready to retire my MM...
1 Second Pierce. Doesn't this turn you on? Retiring an MM when KMST stuff comes out is like quitting... one of the best classes in the game. You'd be crazy.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Russt - 2009-03-19
Cyanne Wrote:Macro'ing strafe -> snipe -> strafe makes this irrelevant, doesn't it?No, it doesn't. It just makes it so instead of having to time your transition from Strafe to Snipe and back, you have to time your transition from Strafe to the macro and back.
Unless macroing Strafe -> Snipe will result in spamming Strafe if Snipe is in cooldown?
I haven't tried, the shortest cooldown skill I've ever had is Nimble Feet. I do have that macro'd to 60-second Booster and it collapses nicely when Nimble isn't available, but I've never tried spamming it.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Chameleonic - 2009-03-19
KaidaTan Wrote:1 Second Pierce. Doesn't this turn you on? Retiring an MM when KMST stuff comes out is like quitting... one of the best classes in the game. You'd be crazy.
lol we dont have it yet and who knows how long we will have to wait for them to get here.
I'll "unretire" it when we get these skill changes next year...
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Cyanne - 2009-03-19
I'm not sure because I've never had a cooldown skill on any of my characters other than the two beginner skills, both of which have no delay at all when cast. The question is whether or not the server's processing of not being able to use snipe due to cooldown would actually take up any amount of time at all between the two strafe shots that surround it in the macro (I mean tapping strafe snipe strafe macro continuously, not hold strafe then press the macro whenever snipe is available).
Chameleonic Wrote:It does?:f6:
Looks like Dusk hasn't updated his dps thread...I'd like to see the numbers before I believe you. lol.
Still, its the KB and pinning abilities that make BM so much better than MM in bossing and even training.
As Quantact said there are reasons people play a MM. I for one like the look of Xbows and some of the skills we have are fun to use. I dont want to make a Bishop just for the sake of leveling fast as I dont care for the way they "play"(although making one for leeching purposes for other chars is inviting...I know a lv 180+ bishop who leeches his lv153 Corsair for 3x the exp an hour I get
I guess my beef with my MM is that all the skills we have arent really practical(I use that word again) or "awesome" for easy bossing or regular training...seems like all our skills are cumbersome and not suited or "great" for any situation one comes across in Maple...whereas Bishops, NL, Heroes or BM excel in a lot of areas with skills that are "made" for certain situations.
I'm about ready to retire my MM...
Well, that thread is kind of biased because it uses the exact same weapon scrolling. A 119 att bow is worth much more than a 122 att crossbow. The gap between marksmen with kMST updates and bowmasters is already pretty small even without speed infusion, this crossbow cheapness will close the gap in reality or even make marksmen's single-target damage exceed that of bowmasters.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Stereo - 2009-03-19
Cyanne Wrote:Macro'ing strafe -> snipe -> strafe makes this irrelevant, doesn't it?
On at least one KMST (not sure if it made it to official) all cooldown skills were blocked from macros. Possible this came with the 4th job updates...
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Aids - 2009-03-19
The thing is, MM's have to level ALOT of skills in order for this great DPS to be in effect. By the time you're 160-170, you should be fine. Oh wait, how about you try making a Marksmen to 160 first. I don't even see a level 200 one.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Russt - 2009-03-19
Aids Wrote:The thing is, MM's have to level ALOT of skills in order for this great DPS to be in effect.BMs have to level SE, Expert, Hurricane.
MMs have to level SE, Boost, (Snipe).
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Sn1perJohnE - 2009-03-19
i would say that they are about even now. Even when i tried out a 13x BM on FlowsionMS, hurricane was not able to pin HH. Also, would SI+ normal speed bow+ booster be faster than the xbow equivalant? Cause if it shoots faster than hurricane (arrows/sec) than it may have a point to give to BMs.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - FelixTM - 2009-03-19
Sn1perJohnE Wrote:i would say that they are about even now. Even when i tried out a 13x BM on FlowsionMS, hurricane was not able to pin HH.
That is false. Hurricane can most definitely pin Headless Horseman. I have done it countless times, with no effort. It fact, he's one of the easier bosses to pin.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Aids - 2009-03-19
Russt Wrote:BMs have to level SE, Expert, Hurricane.
MMs have to level SE, Boost, (Snipe).
But then you completely ignore pierce, which makes leveling easier in the first place.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - DrRusty - 2009-03-19
Aids Wrote:But then you completely ignore pierce, which makes leveling easier in the first place.
That's true. I think the reason there isn't a lvl 200 MM is because they're just so rare at the moment. MM level faster than BM, but MM are just a lot rarer. Look at shadowers; we only have 1 lvl 200 and we're the 2nd fastest lvl'ing class.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Dusk - 2009-03-19
KaidaTan Wrote:Sidenote: the KMST updates also increase Bomb's impact damage. Suck it Inferno advocates!Total BS and I'd be much more upset if I still played my BM >_>
Chameleonic Wrote:I know a lv 180+ bishop who leeches his lv153 Corsair for 3x the exp an hour I getWow you train slow...I already get faster exp by JNPTing than leechers as a 12x Corsair o_o
Cyanne Wrote:I'm not sure because I've never had a cooldown skill on any of my characters other than the two beginner skills, both of which have no delay at all when cast. The question is whether or not the server's processing of not being able to use snipe due to cooldown would actually take up any amount of time at all between the two strafe shots that surround it in the macro (I mean tapping strafe snipe strafe macro continuously, not hold strafe then press the macro whenever snipe is available).It should take up time, I think. As a Corsair, I have small cooldowns on 4 skills. Sometimes I'll press Recoil in midair before the cooldown finishes, and I'll fall a bit before one comes out, pushing me nowhere.
I'm also fairly certain that server delay causes all cooldowns to extend a random amount past the number at face value. That is, if you were to hold down Air Strike, sometimes you might use it exactly 5 seconds after the previous cast, but sometimes you might use it 6 or 7 seconds past the previous cast. It's hard to get the exact timing, and I often find it easier just to wait a few extra seconds to avoid wasting time/seeing that annoying message pop up. Does it display an annoying message when you try to use Snipe before the cooldown ends?
Quote:Well, that thread is kind of biased because it uses the exact same weapon scrolling. A 119 att bow is worth much more than a 122 att crossbow. The gap between marksmen with kMST updates and bowmasters is already pretty small even without speed infusion, this crossbow cheapness will close the gap in reality or even make marksmen's single-target damage exceed that of bowmasters.
True, and it also assumes level 200. The stronger you make the characters, the better off BMs are, due to Snipe's fixed damage. I'm not sure whether SI allows MMs to outdamage BMs with Apples thrown into consideration.
DrRusty Wrote:That's true. I think the reason there isn't a lvl 200 MM is because they're just so rare at the moment. MM level faster than BM, but MM are just a lot rarer. Look at shadowers; we only have 1 lvl 200 and we're the 2nd fastest lvl'ing class.
I think it's an aesthetic thing. MMs have always been rarer, even though they were consistently rated the better class until 4th job came out. Bows appeal to more people than crossbows, it seems. Back in 2006, when I knew I wanted to start an archer, I chose Ranger simply because I thought they looked cooler and Inferno was the coolest looking skill in the game.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Stereo - 2009-03-19
Sn1perJohnE Wrote:Also, would SI+ normal speed bow+ booster be faster than the xbow equivalant? Cause if it shoots faster than hurricane (arrows/sec) than it may have a point to give to BMs.
Bow Strafe+SI is 400 arrows per minute, Crossbow Strafe+SI is 380, both with Normal speed weapons.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - DrRusty - 2009-03-19
Stereo Wrote:Bow Strafe+SI is 400 arrows per minute, Crossbow Strafe+SI is 380, both with Normal speed weapons.
Would higher atk xbow's be enough to make up the difference? Then throwing in that 200k snipe.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - IllegallySane - 2009-03-19
Dusk Wrote:Total BS and I'd be much more upset if I still played my BM >_>
Wow you train slow...I already get faster exp by JNPTing than leechers as a 12x Corsair o_o
What the heck is JNPT? Is that one of the new training grounds inside CWK?
BM vs MM after KMST updates - DrRusty - 2009-03-19
IllegallySane Wrote:What the heck is JNPT? Is that one of the new training grounds inside CWK?
LOL that confused me too. I think its J(dunno this one) Newtie PT (partying)
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Amnesia - 2009-03-19
Hurricane.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - summer - 2009-03-19
DrRusty Wrote:LOL that confused me too. I think its J(dunno this one) Newtie PT (partying)
J= Jr.
they're all Jr. Newties...
BM vs MM after KMST updates - ablu2 - 2009-03-19
AGH is it really too hard to waste a few seconds typing out the whole thing instead of initials?
G owns B because CL is EL.
BM vs MM after KMST updates - Findings - 2009-03-19
ablu2 Wrote:AGH is it really too hard to waste a few seconds typing out the whole thing instead of initials?
G owns B because CL is EL.
You are stupid. Read your own sig.