BM vs MM after KMST updates

Is there any reason to make a BM after the KMST updates come to our version? MM beat them in just about every single way. Even single target DPS bowmen hardly do any better than MM with the new updates. Not to mention MM get the boost from speed infuse while BM's don't. Also, blind seems a lot more useful than hamstring to me. MM we're stronger in 3rd job, and now 4th job as well. The ability to freeze, much better mobbing skills, almost equal DPS, and cheaper weapons....

How come they didn't update bowmen as well?

Is there any reason to make a BM after the KMST updates come to our version?

No.

How come they didn't update bowmen as well?

Because Marksmen are bowmen.

Because Marksmen are bowmen.

you know what i mean.......

you know what i mean.......

No, I don't.

Is there any reason to make a BM after the KMST updates come to our version? MM beat them in just about every single way. Even single target DPS bowmen hardly do any better than MM with the new updates. Not to mention MM get the boost from speed infuse while BM's don't. Also, blind seems a lot more useful than hamstring to me. MM we're stronger in 3rd job, and now 4th job as well. The ability to freeze, much better mobbing skills, almost equal DPS, and cheaper weapons....

How come they didn't update bowmen as well?

I think the big issue is BMs can solo bosses just by pinning them to a corner indefinitely with Hurricane. You won't be seeing MMs having as easy a time being able to do that.

No, I don't.

dude if u wanted to troll then go to 4chan

I think the big issue is BMs can solo bosses just by pinning them to a corner indefinitely with Hurricane. You won't be seeing MMs having as easy a time being able to do that.

Strafe does a pretty good job of pinning. Doesn't it have higher damage per hit? It would let MM pin monsters with higher KB's. I can't really think of a boss right now that has a high KB cept the warrior (80k) from cwkpq.

Strafe does a pretty good job of pinning. Doesn't it have higher damage per hit? It would let MM pin monsters with higher KB's. I can't really think of a boss right now that has a high KB cept the warrior (80k) from cwkpq.

Strafe does 100%. Hurricane does 100%.

Strafe does 100%. Hurricane does 100%.

On top of that, without SI, I can't even keep a slow boss like HH pinned or keep it from gaining on me. And I can't call that solo-ing if I'm given SI. HH is just an example though, if you are refer to something a little more threatening, you'd see what I mean.

If you want to extrapolate on that, you could also say that BMs are the only ones able to sell boss leech in the bowman class. I don't support leeching in any way, but to some this is an advantage.

Strafe does a pretty good job of pinning. Doesn't it have higher damage per hit? It would let MM pin monsters with higher KB's. I can't really think of a boss right now that has a high KB cept the warrior (80k) from cwkpq.

It actually doesn't. Unlike L7/TT it doesn't have the fast timing to pin anything, even if it KBs it's not doing it fast enough to prevent the monster from advancing. Slowly sure, but it does advance. With hurricane or TT the monster is stuck on the spot, unable to move (thus 'pin').

Haven't tried Strafe with SI or a Fast XBow so I can't say it's true for all cases, but for a solo Sniper/Marksman with a Neschere, it is not possible to pin (for example) HH.


@ 90 Hermit I have an easier time with HH than I did on a 11x Sniper. The Hermit doesn't even do KB damage 100% of the time, and it gets better pin. I pretty much abused Puppet to kill it at all (it stands and shoots the puppet instead of advancing)

I see no reason not to make a BM...Even with 4s, 199k Snipe MM do only about 85% the dps of BM. With SI it comes to about 95%...but as has already been said solo MM still cant keep any boss pinned. I have trouble keeping even Manon/Grifey pinned and I cant keep Anego/Crow/BF/HH/Pap etc pinned with normal strafe. If you want to boss dont make a MM.

MM will always be the poor cousin of BM.

If you can't pin a mobile boss, there goes pretty much all dps advantage.

And When apples are considered, isn't the gap widened? Since Snipe isn't affected by it?

At least there's the fun to play side, if you like that sort of thing.

If you can't pin a mobile boss, there goes pretty much all dps advantage.

And When apples are considered, isn't the gap widened? Since Snipe isn't affected by it?

At least there's the fun to play side, if you like that sort of thing.

I agree with this guy.

The KMST updates don't make MMs better than BMs in single-target DPS unless you're incredibly unfunded. BMs are still the best at the only thing they're good at: soloing bosses. They will still do it faster and more efficiently than any other class (there's a few exceptions). But really this just brings MMs up to par.

Personally I'm all for these updates. I'm really sad that Marksmen got the shaft for so long with unusable 4th job skills and low single target DPS. Now MMs won't be rejected from bosses just because they don't have Hurricane and they'll be viewed as an alternate choice rather than an inferior one.

Sidenote: the KMST updates also increase Bomb's impact damage. Suck it Inferno advocates!

I see no reason not to make a BM...Even with 4s, 199k Snipe MM do only about 85% the dps of BM.

MM will always be the poor cousin of BM.

Actually it brings their DPS to a little higher than a BM's without SI or Apples, assuming no delay between Snipe and Strafe. Given a little human error, they'd be about even.

I think all this comes down to what class people WANT to play the most. If you're going for pure DPS and have 8 billion mesos you might make a NL, if you want to have the fastest lvling rate, a bishop. Marksmen and Bowmasters have their individual skills and if it's fun for you to play using those you'll probably do it even without the DPS or 15 target gen spamming. I mean there's gotta be a reason some people are playing Marksmen even now.

It makes sense that marksmen should be slightly weaker than bowmasters against a single target because marksmen can train slightly faster, supposedly. Also, you can't really compare the two at single-target immobile bosses because due to snipe's flat damage, the difference between the two classes depends on how well-funded the archer is, and still, nothing's truly realistic because of server lag on snipe cooldown, snipe working on weapon cancels, crossbow (scroll)s being cheapere, etc.

Actually it brings their DPS to a little higher than a BM's without SI or Apples, assuming no delay between Snipe and Strafe. Given a little human error, they'd be about even.

Macro'ing strafe -> snipe -> strafe makes this irrelevant, doesn't it?

Macro'ing strafe -> snipe -> strafe makes this irrelevant, doesn't it?

Not quite. You're going to lose a little because it's impossible to get Snipe at the exact moment the cooldown ends. You'll have to shoot off one extra Strafe, or not fire for a moment as the cooldown is just ending.

Macro'ing strafe -> snipe -> strafe makes this irrelevant, doesn't it?

Yes

Not quite. You're going to lose a little because it's impossible to get Snipe at the exact moment the cooldown ends. You'll have to shoot off one extra Strafe, or not fire for a moment as the cooldown is just ending.

Yeah, but that's not human error, it's just the way it works. If you were to want to calculate damage over time, according to the speed thread, you'd want to do one snipe every six strafes (seven with speed infusion).

Actually it brings their DPS to a little higher than a BM's without SI or Apples, assuming no delay between Snipe and Strafe. Given a little human error, they'd be about even.

It does?:f6:

Looks like Dusk hasn't updated his dps thread...I'd like to see the numbers before I believe you. lol.

Still, its the KB and pinning abilities that make BM so much better than MM in bossing and even training.

As Quantact said there are reasons people play a MM. I for one like the look of Xbows and some of the skills we have are fun to use. I dont want to make a Bishop just for the sake of leveling fast as I dont care for the way they "play"(although making one for leeching purposes for other chars is inviting...I know a lv 180+ bishop who leeches his lv153 Corsair for 3x the exp an hour I get)...and NL dont really have any skills I particularly like or like the animation of.

I guess my beef with my MM is that all the skills we have arent really practical(I use that word again) or "awesome" for easy bossing or regular training...seems like all our skills are cumbersome and not suited or "great" for any situation one comes across in Maple...whereas Bishops, NL, Heroes or BM excel in a lot of areas with skills that are "made" for certain situations.

I'm about ready to retire my MM...

It does?:f6:

Looks like Dusk hasn't updated his dps thread...I'd like to see the numbers before I believe you. lol.

Here ya go.