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+--- Thread: The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) (/showthread.php?tid=38153)
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Worthyness - 2011-02-21
Combattente Wrote:Wait, wait, wait.
I can make my level 166 Marksman an Ultimate Adventurer?!?
Didn't this whole controversey come out when UAs came out in KMS? I thought it was confirmed that for regular adventurers would simply just have to do a quest if they were over the alloted 50 levels (i.e. since the quest is at 70, if one was over 120, they'd just have to do a quest for another level of the skill).
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - HighOnMushrooms - 2011-02-21
Combattente Wrote:Wait, wait, wait.No, you won't be an Ultimate Adventurer, but you can get the Cygnus skill.
I can make my level 166 Marksman an Ultimate Adventurer?!?
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Index - 2011-02-21
So the general consensus is that Pallies (and Heroes) make the best UAs, right? If so, under which circumstances can SD be more useful than Blast and ACB?
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Sorien - 2011-02-21
Index Wrote:So the general consensus is that Pallies (and Heroes) make the best UAs, right? If so, under which circumstances can SD be more useful than Blast and ACB?
I think it's best used to attack above, below, and behind the paladin. When used with no charges, it's a grand total of 1000% damage, which means paladins can actually have an attack that's still strong without being charged. Also, if the enemy is holy weak mob ACB will do 1046.4% damage with a holy+lightning combination, whereas SD will deal 2180% damage with the same combination; however, SD doesn't hit 7 enemies like ACB does. So Soul Driver is stronger than ACB, but it's not as fast and it doesn't hit as many enemies, which mostly means it's at the height of its usefulness at level 100 when the paladin only had the regular version of Charged Blow which can only deal up to 747% damage to 4 enemies, while Driver can reach 2075% damage against 5 enemies.
Against a single holy weak enemy using a combination of Holy+Lightning, Blast can deal 1857.36% damage without crits, and up to 2786.04% damage with 3 crits of 150% damage multiplication (max critical damage). So in this event, there is no real reason to be using Soul Driver since blast can deal more damage and has a shorter delay.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - modular - 2011-02-21
Devil Wrote:Buccaneer + Shark Wave
=> 100% useless > Dragon Strike lvl1 outdamages it (526% x 4). Only the range is longer then Dragon Strike... Sorry Bucs...
i dunno, looks like its a good bit stronger than marauder skills. especially since its ranged. hit 120 and it isnt useful... but should make 120 easier to get to.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Devil - 2011-02-22
modular Wrote:i dunno, looks like its a good bit stronger than marauder skills. especially since its ranged. hit 120 and it isnt useful... but should make 120 easier to get to.True, true, it's a godsend for getting from lvl 70 to 120!
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Viaje - 2011-02-22
Devil Wrote:Soul Driver + PaladinSurprised no one commented on this.
=> Skill get buffed with Ice + Holy Charge by 149.5%, plus it freezes. Overpowered? Yes...
Ice + Holy Charge is not possible.
Devil Wrote:Captain + Shark WaveNot entirely useless. It kind falls into the same place it does for Marauders in that it'll be great in Third Job and early Fourth.
=> 100% useless > Torpedo lvl1 outdamages it (755% x 4). Only the range is longer then Torpedo... Sorry Captains...
It'll make a great pairing with Flamethrower or Ice Splitter on mobs that are immune/resistant to the other.
Seeing as Ludi is filled with precisely these kinds of mobs, I'm sure people will find uses for it.
Stereo Wrote:Turns out CA is activated by Threaten, so a WK mule is a Hero's best friend...That's... very interesting.
Very, very interesting.
...and a bit awesome.
Yay for CA being usable.
Sorien Wrote:Oh, I failed to consider a paladin + hero combination. Looks like it's even more rediculous when used in a party.They do; in Chaos. They also make it hit one extra monster though.
They should probably nerf Soul Driver to 180% damage per hit at max level, and even then that's pushing the line of OP when combo, charges, or berserk come into the picture.
But even before that, you have to consider where everyone will be training when this patch drops: LHC.
LHC doesn't have large mobs, meaning that Intrepid Slash is going to be better.
ACB is a different story...
Sorien Wrote:Something I'd like to know is if the quest can be repeated as soon as it's done if the character is already 10 levels higher, or if the character has to gain 10 levels to redo the quest again.Depends, apparently.
I've read that those 110+ can do the quest every level.
This would certainly make sense since anyone past 160 would otherwise be screwed.
Sorien Wrote:I think it's best used to attack above, below, and behind the paladin. When used with no charges, it's a grand total of 1000% damage, which means paladins can actually have an attack that's still strong without being charged. Also, if the enemy is holy weak mob ACB will do 1046.4% damage with a holy+lightning combination, whereas SD will deal 2180% damage with the same combination; however, SD doesn't hit 7 enemies like ACB does. So Soul Driver is stronger than ACB, but it's not as fast and it doesn't hit as many enemies, which mostly means it's at the height of its usefulness at level 100 when the paladin only had the regular version of Charged Blow which can only deal up to 747% damage to 4 enemies, while Driver can reach 2075% damage against 5 enemies.You're right about Blast. In a 1v1 situation, it will always win out.
Against a single holy weak enemy using a combination of Holy+Lightning, Blast can deal 1857.36% damage without crits, and up to 2786.04% damage with 3 crits of 150% damage multiplication (max critical damage). So in this event, there is no real reason to be using Soul Driver since blast can deal more damage and has a shorter delay.
Without any additional critical, Blast does an average of 357% x 3 (1071%) and is almost twice as fast as SD.
However, you're wrong about it losing it's usefulness for a reason that I've already mentioned in this monster of a reply: LHC.
See, even at max, ACB does not beat SD on a monster-by-monster basis.
That is to say, it's exactly twice as fast, but it's less than twice as strong.
So ACB only ever wins in two situations:
- If it takes a small odd number of hits to kill a monster with ACB.
- If you can hit at least six monsters.
Obviously neither of these will apply to LHC since they have so much HP that the extra damage from SD will actually matter and you'll never, ever be able to hit six monsters with ACB.
Of course, the nerf of UA SD and the buff of ACB in Chaos will indeed make SD useless to a Paladin.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - TagerBustah - 2011-02-22
Viaje Wrote:Surprised no one commented on this.
Of course, the nerf of UA SD and the buff of ACB in Chaos will indeed make SD useless to a Paladin.
It still wont be useless. The best thing about SD for a paladin is that it is a pure neutral magic attack. SD will give full unreduced damage to Physical resist and fully elemental immune or resistant enemies/ bosses. For example SD with no charge will give full unreduced damage to morgana and ariel who are both resistant or immune to all charges. SD plus lightning only charge will give full unreduced damage to Pink Bean and Empress Cygnuss bosses who are both resistant to Phisical and all charges except lightning.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Locked - 2011-02-22
TagerBustah Wrote:It still wont be useless. The best thing about SD for a paladin is that it is a pure neutral magic attack. SD will give full unreduced damage to Physical resist and fully elemental immune or resistant enemies/ bosses. For example SD with no charge will give full unreduced damage to morgana and ariel who are both resistant or immune to all charges. SD plus lightning only charge will give full unreduced damage to Pink Bean and Empress Cygnuss bosses who are both resistant to Phisical and all charges except lightning.
Every monster with PDR has an equal MDR.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Viaje - 2011-02-22
TagerBustah Wrote:It still wont be useless. The best thing about SD for a paladin is that it is a pure neutral magic attack. SD will give full unreduced damage to Physical resist and fully elemental immune or resistant enemies/ bosses. For example SD with no charge will give full unreduced damage to morgana and ariel who are both resistant or immune to all charges. SD plus lightning only charge will give full unreduced damage to Pink Bean and Empress Cygnuss bosses who are both resistant to Phisical and all charges except lightning.Are you actually claiming that Soul Driver does magic damage?
L
O
L
Also, give me an example of a fully elementally immune/resistant mob. Because I'm fairly sure there isn't one.
If there were, a Pally has no business being there.
There are a few fully resistant bosses, but Blast is better in 1v1.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Shidoshi - 2011-02-22
Viaje Wrote:Also, give me an example of a fully elementally immune/resistant mob. Because I'm fairly sure there isn't one.
If there were, a Pally has no business being there.
There are a few fully resistant bosses, but Blast is better in 1v1.
I'm pretty sure Lord Pirate and Alishar are completely elementally resistant.
Anyway, there is no difference in doing magical or physical damage to monsters. They all have the same ammount of PDR as MDR so you might as well abolish the difference between the two.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Viaje - 2011-02-22
Shidoshi Wrote:I'm pretty sure Lord Pirate and Alishar are completely elementally resistant.Hence me saying "There are a few fully resistant bosses". I'm probably alone, but I distinguish mobs (monsters that appear en masse) from bosses.
Anyway, there is no difference in doing magical or physical damage to monsters. They all have the same ammount of PDR as MDR so you might as well abolish the difference between the two.
And TagerBustah is not referring to PDRate; he's referring to the "Physical Strong" tag that Cygnus and Pink Bean carry that is supposed to halve any Physical Damage.
I'm not sure if this actually is a factor post-Big Bang, but, if it is, then it certainly would distinguish the two.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Dark Link - 2011-02-23
Viaje Wrote:Of course, the nerf of UA SD and the buff of ACB in Chaos will indeed make SD useless to a Paladin.
Not entirely. Unless something changed as of late, the nerfed SD will still beat the buffed ACB. Against a neutral monster with Holy+Lit, you're comparing 1069% vs 757.35% [SD vs ACB], if I remember right with how Lit works on Dual Charging. Of course elemental weak only helps the cause of SD even more =/
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - TagerBustah - 2011-02-23
Viaje Wrote:Are you actually claiming that Soul Driver does magic damage?
L
O
L
I mean it is a non physical attack. Heavens Hammer is not a physical attack either.
Viaje Wrote:Also, give me an example of a fully elementally immune/resistant mob. Because I'm fairly sure there isn't one.
If there were, a Pally has no business being there.
Crimson Guardians and Master Guardians. Sounds like you never been to CWKPQ before. So you think a Paladin has no business being at CWKPQ?
Viaje Wrote:There are a few fully resistant bosses, but Blast is better in 1v1.
There are several bosses resistant to either all wk charges (fire/ice/light) or all Paladins charges (fire/ice/light/holy). Also for White Knights Blast is not an option.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Viaje - 2011-02-23
Dark Link Wrote:Not entirely. Unless something changed as of late, the nerfed SD will still beat the buffed ACB. Against a neutral monster with Holy+Lit, you're comparing 1069% vs 757.35% [SD vs ACB], if I remember right with how Lit works on Dual Charging. Of course elemental weak only helps the cause of SD even more =/Yes, entirely.
For one, there's no need in apply charges when comparing them since they're going to scale the same.
At the end of the day, you're still comparing a 720% SD against a 514% ACB. Charges are irrelevant.
Now, here's the problem with your comparison: you're comparing them on a per-activation basis.
As has already been mentioned and is generally common-knowledge, SD is slow.
More specifically, it activates with a 1600ms delay while ACB has a 800ms delay.
That means that in the same time-frame, ACB will do 1.4278 times the damage as SD.
So it's very much useless.
TagerBustah Wrote:I mean it is a non physical attack. Heavens Hammer is not a physical attack either.Mechanically, Hammer isn't really an attack at all as much as it is a skill effect.
Comparing it to Soul Driver doesn't make any sense due to the fact that Soul Driver works just like every other attack; i.e. it is a physical attack.
TagerBustah Wrote:Crimson Guardians and Master Guardians. Sounds like you never been to CWKPQ before. So you think a Paladin has no business being at CWKPQ?ORLY? Crimson Guardians are resistant/immune to Lightning?
Master Guardians are only a momentary disturbance, but I don't consider one statistically insignificant scenario to make it worth the effort of getting the skill.
TagerBustah Wrote:There are several bosses resistant to either all wk charges (fire/ice/light) or all Paladins charges (fire/ice/light/holy). Also for White Knights Blast is not an option.What bosses? Because while there are some, they're trivial due to the only place they'll regularly be faced: Dojo.
And, again, there is no good reason for a White Knight/Paladin to be messing with fully elementally resistant monsters.
You're suggesting people recreate their White Knights/Palis or doing a massively time-consuming quests so they can go screw around at monsters they'd normally ignore and deem that "useful"?
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Dark Link - 2011-02-23
Viaje Wrote:Yes, entirely.
For one, there's no need in apply charges when comparing them since they're going to scale the same.
At the end of the day, you're still comparing a 720% SD against a 514% ACB. Charges are irrelevant.
Now, here's the problem with your comparison: you're comparing them on a per-activation basis.
As has already been mentioned and is generally common-knowledge, SD is slow.
More specifically, it activates with a 1600ms delay while ACB has a 800ms delay.
That means that in the same time-frame, ACB will do 1.4278 times the damage as SD.
So it's very much useless.
Alright, I'll give it to you. I forgot about the ms delay in the two skills, in which case it's a 1069% vs 1515% [SD vs ACB] scenario.
Quote:ORLY? Crimson Guardians are resistant/immune to Lightning?
Master Guardians are only a momentary disturbance, but I don't consider one statistically insignificant scenario to make it worth the effort of getting the skill.
That's rather ignorant of you ain't it?
You claimed there were no such monster in the game that existed that was resist / immune to all WK / Pally elements and when you're shown one, you say it's not worth mentioning / listing as it's only temporarily?
Quote:What bosses? Because while there are some, they're trivial due to the only place they'll regularly be faced: Dojo.
And, again, there is no good reason for a White Knight/Paladin to be messing with fully elementally resistant monsters.
You're suggesting people recreate their White Knights/Palis or doing a massively time-consuming quests so they can go screw around at monsters they'd normally ignore and deem that "useful"?
Margana
Knight Statue A
Knight Statue B
Lion Statue A
Lion Statue B
Ergoth
Krexel (3)
Well according to your logic, I must be a terrible paladin player since I shouldn't be anywhere close to CWKPQ or GPQ. Also last I checked, you can't find any of these bosses in Dojo =/
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Stereo - 2011-02-23
HS is off there; Crimson Guardians resist Fire/Ice/Lightning and are immune to Holy.
Not that it matters. With 105,000 hp, I can practically speaking 1hko them with Blast unless I'm dual charging holy/lightning (in which case I'm doing 6.25% damage).
And Soul Driver is slow cast + no stun/freeze, so it'd just be asking for you to get whacked with seals and damage.
I'm not sure what the point of this discussion is - Paladins get 149.5% Soul Drivers at neutral targets. Heroes get 200% and don't have to mess with resistance.
If you want an all-around kill anything attacker, pick Hero. Paladins can't and shouldn't be killing elemental-resistant mobs efficiently.
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - Torque - 2011-02-25
WTTRADE > SOUL DRIVER WITH SOUL RUSH..
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - gamester47 - 2011-02-25
I am going guess the answer is no but ask this question any way, since UA Paladins have combat order does that affect Soul Driver? If it does would it work like 4th job skills and get an extra 2 levels beyond the normal max?
The ultimate Ultimate Adventurer's info thread... :) - CarrionCrow - 2011-02-25
gamester47 Wrote:I am going guess the answer is no but ask this question any way, since UA Paladins have combat order does that affect Soul Driver? If it does would it work like 4th job skills and get an extra 2 levels beyond the normal max?
No, the Cygnus skill would be among the beginner skills, which get no benefit from CO.