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+--- Thread: KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes (/showthread.php?tid=64590)
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - KillerZero - 2013-05-31
iAmFear Wrote:The Cleansing pot isn't a buff pot, so you can use it even if you have the maximum number of buff potions allowed, as an alchemist on my Phantom, I was able to use a resistance potion and a critical potion as well as a cleansing pot to dispell Potential Lock whenever I had to.
Status resistance has a lot of uses at Empress, it's just more convenient when you don't get sent out, or trapped in a tornado, or turned into a pig, or turned into a bomb, or stunned, or have your potentials canceled out, it's pretty much the only boss I care about having 100% status resistance at.
Also, it's not really a double edge sword, having 100% status resistance can't hurt you in any way, the fact that bosses ignore it isn't a problem that arises because you have 100% status resistance. Bosses that ignore stauts resistance pretty much levels the playing field for everyone, except people without Hero's Will, which as I pointed out, has an cooldown too long to really be all that useful. It's also annoying as hell since the bosses that ignore your status resistance have some of the worst effects, like Hard Hilla's cage that can't possibly be broken in time, even if you had a full party of six (which would just make things worse in other ways), so it's pretty much an instant KO (except it's not instant, so it eats up precious time), or potential lock. You can get by some of them, like staying dead until Hard Hilla uses the cage again since it has a fairly long cooldown. You can cleansing pot potential lock, and seduce too, of course, but the cooldown on CPB's seduce and also its Potential Lock is a minute, so he can use it 5 or 6 times by the time you can cleansing pot or Hero's Will again. Oh, and those god damned transformations, I'm pretty sure you can't even Hero's Will out of those, or use a cleansing potion.
i totally agree with you, q.q been screwed so many times cause of not having hero will on mihile/ds. Thank you for informing me about cleansing pots and using status pots.
Lets just agree that kaiser and xenon are just broken over with their 60% status and hero will. Especially kaiser, with its 90 sec hero will cd ._. Nexon needs to rework how status protection actually effects you when mobs use skills. Im not saying they should remove it entirely, but as you mentioned having 100% status is really helpful at certain bosses making soloing possible.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Marko - 2013-05-31
Anyone know the new dmg formula for adventurer mage yet?
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Hanabira.Kage - 2013-05-31
So it seems like the standard attack pattern for Paladins when bossing will be something along the lines of:
1. Use Flame Charge.
2. Use Blizzard Charge 4 times.
3. Spam Blast till the Elemental Charge buff icon flickers.
4. Use Flame Charge to refresh the buff and DoT.
5. Repeat step 3 and 4.
1. Use Flame Charge.
2. Use Blizzard Charge 4 times.
3. Spam Blast till the Elemental Charge buff icon flickers.
4. Use Flame Charge to refresh the buff and DoT.
5. Repeat step 3 and 4.
hadriel Wrote:Or making major quests where (part of) the aim is not to kill a boss at some stage, but rather to survive some onslaught.
Let's see...boss fades into the background (like Old Balrog) and sends waves of powerful, high-Hp monsters that do massive damage towards the players? These monsters could die when the boss returns to the field, maybe even healing the boss for a small amount of HP per monster remaining.
They could give Paladins a keydown Provoke skill that basically makes them sitting ducks, and maybe this skill could "anger" targets to make them do more damage to the Paladin casting it, but lower their defence to aid party members. This would help save the ranged/low-HP classes against that merciless onslaught.
They could give Paladins a keydown Provoke skill that basically makes them sitting ducks, and maybe this skill could "anger" targets to make them do more damage to the Paladin casting it, but lower their defence to aid party members. This would help save the ranged/low-HP classes against that merciless onslaught.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - LegendGospel - 2013-05-31
Pearly Wrote:Simple logic, right? If they truly want bishops to go back supporting (Which is what I really love and why I chose cleric few years ago), stop doing all the above non sense.
Oh boy, Clerics were so wanted back then. At Alishtar!
"cleric spam heal, k??"
"WHY DIDN'T YOU SPAM HEAL??"
"JUST HEAL DONT ATTACK"
Because heal actually had importance then. The economy wasn't broken, so everyone wasn't rich to afford a full inventory of pots. Pots were more expensive (red pots, white pots, etc, not counting NLC pots). They made them cheaper many patches ago, AND they made newb pots drop almost as much as mesos from low level monsters.
YennoX Wrote:If you think your class is pomegranate, why do you even play it?
I don't play it now Mr. Assumpty Panty.
YennoX Wrote:Bishops were never good for damage, so I don't know what made you suddenly think you're entitled to it.
The game completely changing so partying isn't needed.
It wasn't sudden either, they slowly ruined it.
Then: Bishops fundamental at Zakum / Hortnail.
Now: Nah man, they die in a few seconds.
Then: Res please!
Now: Nah man, wheels.
Then: Bless please!
Now: Everything dies in 1 hit anyway.
Then: Dispel meeeeee BISHOP DISPEL
Now: What's silence? status resist mofo
Then: Heal me while I attack, party formula will give us both good experience! Let's go Himes or Newties!
Now: Heal me while I attack and pineapple YOU, no wait pomegranate nevermind, who the pineapple needs heal?
Then: Let's go kill a boss, wanna support?
Now: Oh pomegranate I just farted and killed a boss accidentally.
And I've felt entitled to damage since Nexon started buffing Bishops to the point of where my Bishop could kill bosses faster than many other players, but now they go and decide to nerf their main attack. Clearly Nexon is making blind shots hoping they hit something good.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - YennoX - 2013-05-31
LegendGospel Wrote:Oh boy, Clerics were so wanted back then. At Alishtar!
"cleric spam heal, k??"
"WHY DIDN'T YOU SPAM HEAL??"
"JUST HEAL DONT ATTACK"
Because heal actually had importance then. The economy wasn't broken, so everyone wasn't rich to afford a full inventory of pots. Pots were more expensive (red pots, white pots, etc, not counting NLC pots). They made them cheaper many patches ago, AND they made newb pots drop almost as much as mesos from low level monsters.
I don't play it now Mr. Assumpty Panty.
The game completely changing so partying isn't needed.
It wasn't sudden either, they slowly ruined it.
Then: Bishops fundamental at Zakum / Hortnail.
Now: Nah man, they die in a few seconds.
Then: Res please!
Now: Nah man, wheels.
Then: Bless please!
Now: Everything dies in 1 hit anyway.
Then: Dispel meeeeee BISHOP DISPEL
Now: What's silence? status resist mofo
Then: Heal me while I attack, party formula will give us both good experience! Let's go Himes or Newties!
Now: Heal me while I attack and pineapple YOU, no wait pomegranate nevermind, who the pineapple needs heal?
Then: Let's go kill a boss, wanna support?
Now: Oh pomegranate I just farted and killed a boss accidentally.
And I've felt entitled to damage since Nexon started buffing Bishops to the point of where my Bishop could kill bosses faster than many other players, but now they go and decide to nerf their main attack. Clearly Nexon is making blind shots hoping they hit something good.
And your attacks have been buffed many times before to compensate for the changing nature of the game. What are you expecting? To solo chaos Vellum?
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Grey - 2013-05-31
KillerZero Wrote:i totally agree with you, q.q been screwed so many times cause of not having hero will on mihile/ds. Thank you for informing me about cleansing pots and using status pots.
Lets just agree that kaiser and xenon are just broken over with their 60% status and hero will. Especially kaiser, with its 90 sec hero will cd ._. Nexon needs to rework how status protection actually effects you when mobs use skills. Im not saying they should remove it entirely, but as you mentioned having 100% status is really helpful at certain bosses making soloing possible.
My point is, the only thing Hero's Will is even good for is seduce, so you're not missing much by not having it. You can't Hero's Will out of anything else I mentioned (I'm pretty sure, anyway, I've never had to). So the lack of it doesn't pose that much of a problem, hence lacking Hero's Will doesn't do much to balance out having naturally high resistance.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - LegendGospel - 2013-05-31
YennoX Wrote:And your attacks have been buffed many times before to compensate for the changing nature of the game. What are you expecting? To solo chaos Vellum?
We don't need more Xenon jobs.
Nexon needs to create a DPS chart and balance the jobs around that.
If we measured jobs by giving 10 to the strongest and 1 to the weakest, we don't need situation where a job like Mechanic has been at 10, while jobs like Buccs have been standing at 4.
DPS shouldn't be that much different between classes. That's the whole idea of GAME BALANCE, WHICH IS A GOOD THING THAT WE WANT. Using the 1-10 scale again, the "weakest" classes shoudn't be that apart from the highest DPS ones, say 8 to 10, not 4 to 10 or 6 to 10. And if some classes do have weaker DPS, it should be compensated by other perks, such as survivability, hp draining, healing, better mobility, and whatnot.
And this isn't a Bishop-only problem. Between melee classes you could see 9000% vs 2400% DPS, BOTH FOR ATTACKERS. So yeah, we need balance.
What we want is people to stop making classes for the DPS, and make them for the concept, the fun.
I made my cleric for concept and fun back then. And it SORT OF worked out. I healed at party while my friends killed, then the roles were reversed on Genesis spam training, and reversed again at bossing, where healing, dispelling and whatnot were important, when people used to HP wash because it was hard to survive, or you could save a party member's life on Skeles because they killed you in 2 hits sometimes, and you timed that heal just right to save them.
However all that is gone, in game that centers around DPS, Bishops need DPS. Period. The current DPS isn't enough.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - JoeTang - 2013-05-31
THESE ASYMMETRIC CLASSES
WHY ARE THEY ASYMMETRICALLY BALANCED
LegendGospel Wrote:And this isn't a Bishop-only problem. Between melee classes you could see 9000% vs 2400% DPS, BOTH FOR ATTACKERS. So yeah, we need balance.
I didn't know we were still running the Justice patch.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - tecul1 - 2013-05-31
Just accept that Nexon has no idea what they're doing and never will.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Chicocl - 2013-05-31
LegendGospel Wrote:However all that is gone, in game that centers around DPS, Bishops need DPS. Period. The current DPS isn't enough.
Can you please just quit your bishop?
Arans were at the bottom of the DPS table for like what? 1-1.5 years? And now we are at position 32 and we are happy with it, we don't really have half your party buffs and one of them is useless thanks to post unlimited bosses (Combo Barrier). But we are still happy on having a crappy (now decent if we compare it to paladins...) DPS and lacking the usefulness that other classes have.
How is possible that bishops are now in the position 38 and Night lords, Phantoms, Bow master and Luminous are in higher positions; those are classes that were suppose to be damage dealers when they were created, they have almost no usefulness in parties (Except for phantoms, they are like hackers in that scheme).
Nexon is being too generous with Bishops IMHO.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Arrol - 2013-05-31
tecul1 Wrote:Just accept that Nexon has no idea what they're doing and never will.
Yea. "Rebalance Explorers", my ass. You mean make them flavor of the month before the "Child of God" classes show up and trump them all over again. With what I saw, this is just the same old shlock given in a different plate.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - JoeTang - 2013-05-31
There was a typo in the Spearman skills. Beholder's readout should be the following:
MP Cost: 20, Duration: 360 sec, Every 24 seconds heal 20 HP - Cooldown Time: 120 sec
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Happy Mapling.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - PirateIzzy - 2013-05-31
iAmFear Wrote:My point is, the only thing Hero's Will is even good for is seduce, so you're not missing much by not having it. You can't Hero's Will out of anything else I mentioned (I'm pretty sure, anyway, I've never had to). So the lack of it doesn't pose that much of a problem, hence lacking Hero's Will doesn't do much to balance out having naturally high resistance.
Actually, I'm like 99% sure Hero's Will can cancel Zombify, which can be pretty deadly.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - YennoX - 2013-05-31
LegendGospel Wrote:We don't need more Xenon jobs.
Nexon needs to create a DPS chart and balance the jobs around that.
If we measured jobs by giving 10 to the strongest and 1 to the weakest, we don't need situation where a job like Mechanic has been at 10, while jobs like Buccs have been standing at 4.
DPS shouldn't be that much different between classes. That's the whole idea of GAME BALANCE, WHICH IS A GOOD THING THAT WE WANT. Using the 1-10 scale again, the "weakest" classes shoudn't be that apart from the highest DPS ones, say 8 to 10, not 4 to 10 or 6 to 10. And if some classes do have weaker DPS, it should be compensated by other perks, such as survivability, hp draining, healing, better mobility, and whatnot.
And this isn't a Bishop-only problem. Between melee classes you could see 9000% vs 2400% DPS, BOTH FOR ATTACKERS. So yeah, we need balance.
What we want is people to stop making classes for the DPS, and make them for the concept, the fun.
I made my cleric for concept and fun back then. And it SORT OF worked out. I healed at party while my friends killed, then the roles were reversed on Genesis spam training, and reversed again at bossing, where healing, dispelling and whatnot were important, when people used to HP wash because it was hard to survive, or you could save a party member's life on Skeles because they killed you in 2 hits sometimes, and you timed that heal just right to save them.
However all that is gone, in game that centers around DPS, Bishops need DPS. Period. The current DPS isn't enough.
Okay, Bishops need more damage. Cool. You have yet to answer ShinkuDragon's question. Which class should be last, and why should they be last?
You guys went from being unable to solo Manon's to being able to solo major bosses like HT. What more could you possibly want? Like I asked previously, are you expecting to solo Chaos Vellum?
And your class DOES have its perks. Party skills. Why do you so conveniently exclude the usefulness of HS just because it doesn't apply to YOU?
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - SoR0XaS - 2013-05-31
IMO, bishops aren't meant to be a DPS based class. They're meant to be supporters (The buffs, shell, heal, ress, etc). I feel that nexon has been too generous to bishops by giving them a tad bit of damage.
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - ShinkuDragon - 2013-05-31
YennoX Wrote:Okay, Bishops need more damage. Cool. You have yet to answer ShinkuDragon's question. Which class should be last, and why should they be last?There's even a PB solo video
You guys went from being unable to solo Manon's to being able to solo major bosses like HT. What more could you possibly want? Like I asked previously, are you expecting to solo Chaos Vellum?
And your class DOES have its perks. Party skills. Why do you so conveniently exclude the usefulness of HS just because it doesn't apply to YOU?
JoeTang Wrote:There was a typo in the Spearman skills. Beholder's readout should be the following:
MP Cost: 20, Duration: 360 sec, Every 24 seconds heal 20 HP - Cooldown Time: 120 sec
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Happy Mapling.
Please tell me you forgot a "%" symbol in there
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - SoR0XaS - 2013-05-31
YennoX Wrote:And your class DOES have its perks. Party skills. Why do .you so conveniently exclude the usefulness of HS just because it doesn't apply to YOU?
Isn't there a passive when there are more clerics in a party, effects will be boosted?
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - Locked - 2013-05-31
ShinkuDragon Wrote:Please tell me you forgot a "%" symbol in there
Stuff
No
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - ShinkuDragon - 2013-05-31
Locked Wrote:Stuff
No
If it werent for fucking revenge... Dark knight healing erryone!
KMST 1.2.478 - Warrior and Mage Skill Changes - LegendGospel - 2013-05-31
JoeTang Wrote:THESE ASYMMETRIC CLASSES
WHY ARE THEY ASYMMETRICALLY BALANCED
Asymmetrically balanced? Is that fancy for unbalanced?
JoeTang Wrote:I didn't know we were still running the Justice patch.
No need to, just take a transformed Kaiser and that's already double the DPS of most classes.
I guess Kaisers are asymmetrically balanced.
