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[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Abysseon - 2010-06-23
Kabanaw Wrote:I'm assuming you mean the damage reduction of 70%, and no he can't. That's not stored in the .wz files.
The way things are going, there's going to be no training distinctions between bishops/archmages.
Each would use big bang which is a neutral skill.
At this point, they're better of making each big bang unique by giving it elemental properties.
F/P's can cause burn damage.
I/L's can freeze.
Bishops can be left at neutral since only archmages have elemental reset.
Regarding chain lightning, I have to see how thunder spear works because it may end up
being superior by hitting the target 5 times despite its slow casting time.
Here's a good theory on how it should be:
Quote:Someone had an awesome idea for Chain Lightning: it hits 10 mobs, right? If there are 10 mobs, let it hit them. If there are 5, make the extra hits bounce on the enemies (2 hits to each of 5 enemies) If there are 2 enemies, same thing (5 hits to each of 2 enemies). If there's a single target boss, make it 10 hits on the boss.
They just need to decrease the % loss of each hit as well as lower chain lightning's percentage
otherwise it will be stronger than paralyze.
As for paralyze, same concept but not for angel's ray because bishops don't need the damage.
These suggestions should help to bring the archmages close to balancing again:
- Archmages now have the ability to boss since their 1v1 skill hits a single target multiple times.
- Paralyze can hit a single target 6 times.
- Chain Lightning can hit a single target 10 times.
- Angel Ray can only hit once. *support class*
- Paralyze should be the strongest 1v1 due to chain lightning's % decreases with each hit.
- Bishop's Big Bang stays neutral.
- F/P's Big Bang can cause burn damage.
- I/L's Big Bang/Ice Demon can freeze (3+ seconds) in order to compete with paralyze's
mob/freeze capabilities.
- Each summon should be changed to respond/attack faster.
- Ifrit/Elquine's duration should be increased.
- Even with these adjustments, the other nonmage classes can still outdamage archmages
but not by the margin we see currently.
That's about it. The ideas are flawed but it should help make each mage unique and
give archmages a reason to be accepted to boss runs for damage.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Kabanaw - 2010-06-23
Abysseon Wrote:The way things are going, there's going to be no training distinctions between bishops/archmages.
Each would use big bang which is a neutral skill.
At this point, they're better of making each big bang unique by giving it elemental properties.
F/P's can cause burn damage.
I/L's can freeze.
Bishops can be left at neutral since only archmages have elemental reset.
Regarding chain lightning, I have to see how thunder spear works because it may end up
being superior by hitting the target 5 times despite its slow casting time.
Here's a good theory on how it should be:
They just need to decrease the % loss of each hit as well as lower chain lightning's percentage
otherwise it will be stronger than paralyze.
As for paralyze, same concept but not for angel's ray because bishops don't need the damage.
These suggestions should help to bring the archmages close to balancing again:
- Archmages now have the ability to boss since their 1v1 skill hits a single target multiple times.
- Paralyze can hit a single target 6 times.
- Chain Lightning can hit a single target 10 times.
- Angel Ray can only hit once. *support class*
- Paralyze should be the strongest 1v1 due to chain lightning's % decreases with each hit.
- Bishop's Big Bang stays neutral.
- F/P's Big Bang can cause burn damage.
- I/L's Big Bang/Ice Demon can freeze (3+ seconds) in order to compete with paralyze's
mob/freeze capabilities.
- Each summon should be changed to respond/attack faster.
- Ifrit/Elquine's duration should be increased.
- Even with these adjustments, the other nonmage classes can still outdamage archmages
but not by the margin we see currently.
That's about it. The ideas are flawed but it should help make each mage unique and
give archmages a reason to be accepted to boss runs for damage.
At the current time the damage reduction on CL makes it far weaker than paralyze on mobs greater than 2. 10 hits with CL at 70% reduction is about 1700% damage, and 6 hits of paralyze at full damage is about 2700% damage. Yeah, they should make CL even weaker.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Abysseon - 2010-06-23
Kabanaw Wrote:At the current time the damage reduction on CL makes it far weaker than paralyze on mobs greater than 2. 10 hits with CL at 70% reduction is about 1700% damage, and 6 hits of paralyze at full damage is about 2700% damage. Yeah, they should make CL even weaker.
It has a 70% reduction for each hit now?.... =s
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - IPunketOz - 2010-06-23
Oh ya and vid of a hero using brave slash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8Z8FFzz8o&feature=player_embedded#! <~ again .. idk if any1 posted this here in southperry already xP
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Kabanaw - 2010-06-23
Abysseon Wrote:It has a 70% reduction for each hit now?.... =s
As far as I know, the damage reduction was not changed.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Baklava - 2010-06-23
Kabanaw Wrote:As far as I know, the damage reduction was not changed.
There's nothing that says the damage reduction wasn't changed either.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - vx-2 - 2010-06-23
IPunketOz Wrote:Oh ya and vid of a hero using brave slash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8Z8FFzz8o&feature=player_embedded#! <~ again .. idk if any1 posted this here in southperry already xP
How can he suddenly level with 1/3 of exp % filled ?
Edit: nvm, i just read the comment of the vids
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Kabanaw - 2010-06-23
Baklava Wrote:There's nothing that says the damage reduction wasn't changed either.
Uh. Yes. That's pretty much what I said.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Baklava - 2010-06-23
Kabanaw Wrote:Uh. Yes. That's pretty much what I said.
I meant was changed.
oops.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Kabanaw - 2010-06-23
Baklava Wrote:I meant was changed.
oops.
Yeah. So far, there's no evidence of a change. Of course, all we have right now are skill strings, which don't include the reduction, and at least I haven't seen any patch notes or SS's of CL, so who knows what changes they did with it.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - FrozNlite - 2010-06-23
Having Paralyze hit a mob 6 times each just doesn't make sense. It DOES make sense as a mobbing AoE, as the two eyes in the animation are equally spaced on either side of the character. Chain Lightning, however, is LIGHTNING. As the basic concept of lightning is that it's an electrical discharge down a "ladder of steps of ionized air," it would make sense that CL can hit a single mob 10 times. On the other hand, Paralyze was original named Medusa Eyes, or something along the line. It's modeled after Medusa, who was said to COMPLETELY turn a living organism to stone with a single glance. Not six equal sections of the body freezing simultaneously.
Believe me, I would LOVE to see Paralyze hit multiple times, as it's (a) our strongest single target DPS skill, and (b) well-known that the more hits on a single mob per skill, the higher the overall average DPS. Therefore, I think for Paralyze to operate as a multi-hit single target skill, the animation would need to change to feature more eyes, or at least to something different from what it is now. I don't know exactly WHAT that is, but the bottom line is the logic doesn't quite fit for Paralyze being a multi-hit skill.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Abysseon - 2010-06-23
FrozNlite Wrote:Having Paralyze hit a mob 6 times each just doesn't make sense. It DOES make sense as a mobbing AoE, as the two eyes in the animation are equally spaced on either side of the character. Chain Lightning, however, is LIGHTNING. As the basic concept of lightning is that it's an electrical discharge down a "ladder of steps of ionized air," it would make sense that CL can hit a single mob 10 times. On the other hand, Paralyze was original named Medusa Eyes, or something along the line. It's modeled after Medusa, who was said to COMPLETELY turn a living organism to stone with a single glance. Not six equal sections of the body freezing simultaneously.
Believe me, I would LOVE to see Paralyze hit multiple times, as it's (a) our strongest single target DPS skill, and (b) well-known that the more hits on a single mob per skill, the higher the overall average DPS. Therefore, I think for Paralyze to operate as a multi-hit single target skill, the animation would need to change to feature more eyes, or at least to something different from what it is now. I don't know exactly WHAT that is, but the bottom line is the logic doesn't quite fit for Paralyze being a multi-hit skill.
True, but wouldn't the change of Medusa to the Gorgon Sisters solve that?
Quote:Medusa, Stheno, and Euryale were each able to turn a creature into stone with a single glance.
3 Sisters = 6 Eyes = Paralyze can hit 6 times
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - LegendGospel - 2010-06-23
Abysseon Wrote:- Paralyze can hit a single target 6 times.
- Chain Lightning can hit a single target 10 times.
- Angel Ray can only hit once. *support class*
The concept of support class doesn't exist in Maple Story. Bishops are just a class with a ton of support skills. So we do need a little more damage, of course, not as much as Arch Mages. They should have the advantage in damage, since Bishops won't be doing damage at bosses (we got a stronger Bahamut anyway), but we do need the damage for training.
But yes, I think you hit the nail, that was my vision. I'll put my thoughts clearer in this topic:
1) Chain Lightning hits 10 mobs. If there are less than 10 mobs, the extra hits will bounce among the monsters: 5 monsters will be hit 5 times each, 1 monster will get hit 10 times, etc. On impairs like 7 mobs the extra hits can get distributed to the first mobs it hits. That'd make lightning unique and sweet. I can see me making a an I/L mage just for that.
2) Paralyze hits 6 mobs. It's the eyes of medusa changing its enemies to stone (it would be really cool of they added petrified sprites for mobs). If there are less than 6 mobs Petrify doesn't hit them more times, but rather deals more % damage to less targets. So if there is 1 target, it will be 1 hit with a much higher % damage. F/P are the guys with the big numbers.
Note: Chain Lightning and Paralyze should be more less in pair of damage at 1 target.
3) Bishop's Angel Ray hits 4 mobs, and just like Paralyze when there are less than 4 mobs it doesn't hit more times, but its % damage will go up. Granted, Angel Ray doesn't need to hit as hard as CL and Paralyze on a single mob. It should definitely hit less than both. But at 4 mobs we definitely need damage on similar to the other two Arch Mage skills, since that's our source of leveling up; lolsupporting isn't a way to level up.
Note: Angel Ray should be behind Chain Lightning and Paralyze at 1 target.
So, Arch Mages get to deal awesome damage on bosses, and Bishops just get enough Angel Ray to mob train, and do semi-decent damage at 1 target, its not a necessity for us since we're gonna be supporting at bosses and training is done in mobs. But it's really fucking stupid that Arch Mages can't boss now.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Meeru - 2010-06-24
LegendGospel Wrote:The concept of support class doesn't exist in Maple Story. Bishops are just a class with a ton of support skills. So we do need a little more damage, of course, not as much as Arch Mages. They should have the advantage in damage, since Bishops won't be doing damage at bosses (we got a stronger Bahamut anyway), but we do need the damage for training.
But yes, I think you hit the nail, that was my vision. I'll put my thoughts clearer in this topic:
1) Chain Lightning hits 10 mobs. If there are less than 10 mobs, the extra hits will bounce among the monsters: 5 monsters will be hit 5 times each, 1 monster will get hit 10 times, etc. On impairs like 7 mobs the extra hits can get distributed to the first mobs it hits. That'd make lightning unique and sweet. I can see me making a an I/L mage just for that.
2) Paralyze hits 6 mobs. It's the eyes of medusa changing its enemies to stone (it would be really cool of they added petrified sprites for mobs). If there are less than 6 mobs Petrify doesn't hit them more times, but rather deals more % damage to less targets. So if there is 1 target, it will be 1 hit with a much higher % damage. F/P are the guys with the big numbers.
Note: Chain Lightning and Paralyze should be more less in pair of damage at 1 target.
3) Bishop's Angel Ray hits 4 mobs, and just like Paralyze when there are less than 4 mobs it doesn't hit more times, but its % damage will go up. Granted, Angel Ray doesn't need to hit as hard as CL and Paralyze on a single mob. It should definitely hit less than both. But at 4 mobs we definitely need damage on similar to the other two Arch Mage skills, since that's our source of leveling up; lolsupporting isn't a way to level up.
Note: Angel Ray should be behind Chain Lightning and Paralyze at 1 target.
So, Arch Mages get to deal awesome damage on bosses, and Bishops just get enough Angel Ray to mob train, and do semi-decent damage at 1 target, its not a necessity for us since we're gonna be supporting at bosses and training is done in mobs. But it's really pineappleing stupid that Arch Mages can't boss now.
Frankly speaking, these idea might be very likable. It would really make mage's skills refreshing, I can already picture at the top of my head ...
turn >> zap zap zap, turn << and zap (while left is still zapping as it hasn't finished bouncing), tele to other spots and repeat.
at least it sounds fun to me (maybe not to others). The skills in maple are quite simple I would say, perhaps Nexon aren't doing as much like what you have suggested because that would create some level of complexity when trying to scale the %'s depending on how many you hit. provided if, they are making the skills that flexible in the first place.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Abysseon - 2010-06-24
LegendGospel Wrote:But it's really pineappleing stupid that Arch Mages can't boss now.
That's what I don't understand about the archmage class.
What do we have to offer to the game?
There's currently nothing that warrants us for boss runs:
- No needed party skills like evans/bishops/battle mages.
- Among the worst 1v1 DPM tiers in the game.
Nexon's trying to fix that but I can see its going to take a lot more skill changes/designing for
archmages to be able to boss.
Whether or not they feel the need to spend that amount of time for two lolclasses
is up to them.
Not to mention the various disagreements players have with the other class balancing.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - LegendGospel - 2010-06-24
Precisely. While I do feel that Bishops need a little more balancing, Arch Mages need a TON more balance. What's their point in the game? Even the Evans can solo Bigfoot, I don't know much about Battle Mages... but they both got awesome support skills like Bishops.
Arch Mages got... mob skills, Big Bang, and puny 1vs1 damage... lolbishops also have their best 1vs1 skill, Big Bang. What's the point?
ALL magician jobs should be able to boss in Maple Story 2.0, else this might be called a fail balancing.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - cris92x - 2010-06-25
So with shadowers receiving flash jump and shadow partner... where does that leave dualblades? Would it be dualblades are stronger and shadowers have versatility,mobility and better survivability?
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Takebacker - 2010-06-25
cris92x Wrote:So with shadowers receiving flash jump and shadow partner... where does that leave dualblades? Would it be dualblades are stronger and shadowers have versatility,mobility and better survivability?
As it stands all thief classes are mobile, versatile, efficient, and some degree of evasive. DB lacks the evasiveness the other two have, is in the middle in terms of survivability, but is the highest in 1v1 damage.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Cyanne - 2010-06-25
Dual bladers actually have a ton of invincibility, chains of hell being the main example having invincibility even after it's done similar to corkscrew, while pretty much all the movement skills have invincibility during their animations like barrage. Plus, flash bang is basically fake for the whole expedition.
[1.2.320] Massive Buff - Takebacker - 2010-06-25
Invincibility sure, but you can't argue that DBs take less hits than shadowers and NLs. They have less HP now too, and that's without factoring in meso guard. DBs are without a doubt last on the list for thieves with the highest survivability. Even though chains gives invincibility, even you said it's a double edged sword if you get 1/1'd while in limbo between executions. Flash bang is a plus i will admit, but even so it's only active half the time.
Now for something completely different. I just got DU, and like i thought, they removed the delay. I want to know if spammable DU will out damage FF spam. Knowing that will set the 2nd job brawler build in stone.