Bribery Wrote:I/L Video. Frozen Orb appears to be like Luminous' Morning Star rather than Mechanic's Distortion Bomb.
-snip-

Sephie Wrote:I would sacrifice half of my damage to be twice as useful in parties. I want to be a class where damage isn't the point: if you want damage, go Hero or DrK.

I want a defense skill that actively blocks/takes damage for party members, going even further than Parashock Guard. Incentivize cubing for %HP instead of %STR to make your role as a guardian/support/tank/anchor/healer even more effective. To go along with that, have an attack based on HP, sort of like DA or the new DrK. Getting a party heal and resurrect made me feel better about the revamp because now our job isn't only Combat Orders and Smite... but I would love to see it go even further. Though, I feel resurrect should be a Bishop specific skill.

On the flipside, I feel like there should be an aggressive play style for 2H users. Because they don't use shields, they lack any of the aforementioned extreme defensive skills but instead have more reserved party skills that are still unique and useful.

When I look at how Paladins evolve through each patch, I feel like they're always stuck between two ideologies that the devs try to incorporate. The result is some pseudo-tank that tries to DPS but A) Fails as a tank since if everyone dies around you, you're not going to save the expedition, B) Fails as a tank because there are things in this game that will still 1 shot you (DR, map hazards, boss mechanics, boss spells), and C) Fails as a DPS class because the devs still view the class as a defensive class or something so they are always near the bottom of all warriors in terms of damage.

Pink Bean Wrote:some sort of buff should ignore DR (besides sacrosanctity obviously) for a short time,

Death Wrote:
[SIZE=2]
We want a skill that hits 1 mob instead of all mob skills.
We want blunt weapon animations.
We want something fair for blunt weapons instead of 5% ignore defense.
We want to stay ''holy'' not some fire class.
We want our old threaten animation back. (It's why I made my first character 7 years ago a page. -sob-)

I never complained anywhere about damage but visually it's crap mostly.
(And blast is just ruined for the way it is.)

Sorien Wrote:I do agree with you on most points, but not so much on the threaten animation or having paladins being a mainly holy class.

I know a lot of people really like the current Paladins because they're Holy elemental tanks that don't die against anything outside of Arkarium, Magnus, and Root Abyss; however, I was a Paladin back before the first ever Balance Patch, and I loved that version! Back then, Paladins were elemental knights with some nifty defensive skills as well, and I think this current revamp is trying to give back their original appeal. I'm not saying the original Paladin was the best Paladin, but at the very least I understand why they want to try and make the current one more like a mix between the old and the new.

As for the threaten animation, I personally love this new one because it actually looks pretty threatening. I do think Threaten should have some kind of agro drawing effect though.



Oh yeah, and a suggestion of what I think they should do with swords and blunt weapons. I think they should make swords should have 10% minimum critical damage, while giving blunt weapons something like +20% max crit and -10% minimum critical damage. I think that would bring back the old draw for blunt weapons, which was being able to hit the hardest while having less stable damage. Alternatively, they could make Paladin Mastery grant only 65% mastery, and have the sword bonus be +10% mastery and have the blunt weapon bonus be +15% attack or something. That way most Paladins used to the 94% mastery from ACB will be able to enjoy 95% mastery now, or switch over to hit higher numbers.

Also, I think Shield Mastery should have its name switched to something like Armor Mastery. Have it grant +50% defense when warrior exclusive armor is worn, and then a +25% defense when a shield is equipped (total 75% defense), Guard rate 30% and +10% Guard rate with a shield (total 40% Guard rate), and have +30 weapon attack with -20 weapon attack with a shield (net +10 attack). So that way Paladins can use the two handed alternatives and deal more damage overall while one handed uses still boast higher defense, but not so much as to make the two handed option downright absurd.

Now for the record, these ideas were off the top of my head, so they're probably flawed, but if even one person reads them and thinks: "Hey, that might work, but maybe we can do better," then I will be satisfied with the time it's taken me to write all of this out.

Bribery Wrote:I/L Video.

Kabanaw Wrote:So it looks like they changed how freezing works. Does it have some sort of an effect on bosses now? Because holy hell finally if it does.

Sonic Wrote:Just finished the Bishop 4th job video:

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;8H28Ug4cMNI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H28Ug4cMNI[/video]

It is still uploading so you might still be unable to view it, but it should be done in awhile.

Two things to note:

1. I can jump cast Angel Ray. The problem is when I do so, no projectile comes out. So probably might be a bug. Not sure if it was intended to be jump cast.
2. I can no longer telecast Angel Ray, which I feel is a downside to it.

Chilly Wrote:After comparing and contrasting the mages in Max's Blog my brother's verdict is in:
"I/L got the short end of the stick. It's as if someone thought that F/P still were in some sort of need of buff and were inferior. While the numbers probably don't show a nerf, it sure feels like one.

Find me or link me to an updated Magician damage table when it comes up, I want to see if I'm right, I'll be farming."

Kabanaw Wrote:So it looks like they changed how freezing works. Does it have some sort of an effect on bosses now? Because holy hell finally if it does.

Death Wrote:Thanks you haha, you should see the comments I got on screenshots i have on basil from ages ago.
I still get weird comments for being dumb as such for using one.

And [MENTION=8857]Sephie[/MENTION];

I totally agree.
I never understood that either. Although with some things they left out two handed bw's such as VL weapons.
But come on, a 2h Lv 150 mace. Ametaresu, and that joker thing we don't have yet. Why even bother?

[MENTION=535]JoeTang[/MENTION];

We want a skill that hits 1 mob instead of all mob skills.
We want blunt weapon animations.
We want something fair for blunt weapons instead of 5% ignore defense.
We want to stay ''holy'' not some fire class.
We want our old threaten animation back. (It's why I made my first character 7 years ago a page. -sob-)

I never complained anywhere about damage but visually it's crap mostly.
(And blast is just ruined for the way it is.)

JoeTang Wrote:Paladins:
First off, I note there's an error with Page Order, where the max enemies hit says 2, it should read 8.

 Spoiler

Defense
I think having 3x the defense of other Warriors is pretty steep, especially when it all comes from a single skill, and that Warriors already have such high defense to begin with. I think capping defense shouldn't be something so obvious for a Paladin. They should have the highest, but they shouldn't automatically be 9999.
I would recommend a progression through the job levels, such as Elemental Charge also giving +10% Defense per charge, for +50% in 2nd job, and weapon mastery giving some +defense instead of accuracy. I want to say accuracy actually does do something, but it's so insignificant, no one would notice unless they leveled two identical characters where one had high accuracy and one didn't.
As such, in 4th job, there would be an additional +50% from another skill, perhaps Paladin Expert, replacing its flat bonus. After this, it would be +150% Defense, leaving room for more defense from possible 5th job if more is needed.

Parashock Guard lowers the Paladin's defense to boost ally's, which I feel fits strongly with a Knight theme. Seeing the Cleric specialized skill, I think this should have some added benefit with more party members. Perhaps additional attack for each party member, as well as higher defenses for the party, such as 5% per player while keeping the defense sacrificed static. This would promote party play more so, as well as making the bonus more significant when doing large parties, say at a boss, compared to duo-ing a PQ or party play, so the Paladin is actually benefiting everyone. I think +20% defense is on the low end and wouldn't really change the number of potions used at non-%HP-damaging bosses, though this may be scaled so other Warriors don't get too much defense? Perhaps some +Guard back to the Paladin with party members too, since halving his own is a big cut out of defenses, but the +Guard for party members is pretty sweet.

Offense
I'm under the impression that Lightning Charge's "When not stunned" refers to unstunnable monsters, rather than when stun fails, so that Divine Charge actually benefits vs bosses in this regard.
Flame Charge should definitely get a bonus from Divine Charge's seal to make cycling better.
I think as a solution to the Charge progression would be to change the number of hits of earlier and later charges.
Currently, the damage will be:
Factoring other total damage from skills:
Flame Charge/Blizzard Charge:
140 * (3 + 2) * (1 + 0.55 + 0.60) = 1505%
140 * (3 + 2) * (1 + 0.55 + 0.60 + 0.40 + 0.50 + 0.15) = 2240%
Lightning Charge:
250 * (3 + 2) * (1 + 0.60) = 2000%
250 * (3 + 2) * (1 + 0.60 + 0.40 + 0.50 + 0.15) = 3312.5%
Divine Charge:
405 * (3 + 2) = 2025%
405 * (3 + 2) * (1 + 0.40 + 0.50 + 0.15) = 4151.25%

So while Lightning Charge is currently close to Divine Charge, when you include the bonuses from Blast, Elemental Charge, cycling, and not to mention boss damage, it scales significantly in favour of Divine Charge because of the way +damR% works. Short of increasing the base damage of older charges with progression, which I believe requires a new skillID, I believe that changing the number of hits would alleviate this problem. Adjusting the +damR% would only be beneficial to the generally unfunded, whereas those with moderate to large amounts of +Boss% will go back to Lightning + Divine spam. If the lower charges got +hits from skills rather than +damR% and their damage were scaled to 405%, it would allow it to scale back to Divine Charge's damage in the end, i.e. 2nd job 405%x1, 3rd 405%x2. Even having them with different hit counts at 4th so that Flame/Blizzard get a bigger boost (1 + 2) = 3x, whereas (3+2) = 1.6...x would be better than the current scenario. This is at the cost of missing more often at early job levels though.

I think the offensive buffs to skills is more than enough to offset the loss or lack of weapon attack. I think they should stray away form Expert giving +30 watk, and vary it up. It should be more core class oriented, in this case +DEF, with specific bonuses like for Swords vs Blunt Weapons. If you have 100% Critical Hit Rate (the case where crit damage adds the most damage), the +10% Crit damage is a 1.035x bonus in DPS. As such, enemies with more than 41% defense after ignore would benefit from the Blunt Weapon. So in the case of 100% defense, you would need ~59% ignore before you beat the BW bonus with Sword, and for 300% defense, you'd need 86% total ignore for Sword to be better than BW. This ratio benefits BW with skills such as Sharp Eyes, and potential that adds critical damage. Paladins don't actually have 100% critical hit rate though.

(1-x*0.95)/(1-x) = (1+y * (0.6+0.35)/2)/(1+y*(0.5+0.35)/2), y = 0.55
https://www.wolframalpha.com/

With Blast + Hyper Critical, Paladins have 55% Crit rate, meaning they'd need to reduce defenses past 30% for Sword to be better than BW. For 300% Defense, they'd need 90% Defense Ignore, or 80% before Threaten - Ignore Guard is included for Swords to beat Blunt Weapons.

Might write some more about other classes if people like this piece.


Also, what is it that Paladins want from patches, because it's obviously not damage.

TagerBustah Wrote:No "We" do not want all those things. The majority including myself dont give a crap about blunt weapons at all, granted it don't make sense to have sword animation if your using a mace. Blast should definitely not go back to 1hit skill. The old threaten was cool and cute but the new animation is really good and fits in the game much better. Also I now realize why blast only has one animation because because all the charges are active. But i still going to miss the different blast animations. My idea is still make a different blast animation for each element like before but be able to chose which one to use with blast + arrow key command input like aran and kaiser. Each one would give a different bonus or something.

The most important thing we needed was a very substantial damage increase. Thats what we always needed and what i always wanted for the past 8 years. Having more super high defense is useless now days when all the new bosses just ignore all our defenses and 1hit ko us anyway like Arkarium, Magnus, Azwan and Root Abyss. That makes high damage much more important at bosses than super hi defense. That being said they did take too much of our defense away. They need to give some back to us. Parashock Guard sucks and is not worth using at a major boss as it is now. it needs a way bigger buff than 10 attack to lose that much guard and def. And for Paladin Expert there should be no separate bonuses for using a sword vs blunt weapon. Give both buffs regardless of the weapon.



Thank you very much joe for your analysis and i do agree with it. i have some questions. Does the 15 second blast buff stack and apply to all skills or just blast? Also this video shows that lightnings stun DOT does work on Boss mobs but they can still move around freely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtwG82fP6Qw

ShinkuDragon Wrote:I've always thought that a nice effect of ice attacks would be to reduce an enemy's rate of attack, or attack speed by a certain amount, rather than just reduce their speed.

Would be a very good option against harder bosses, and you could use another charge for easier bosses

Niernen Wrote:They need to make a class that only uses 2h BW (and maybe 2h axe?) so people will stop whining on how useless they are.

ShinkuDragon Wrote:From a logical point of view, the fact that pallies have the option, but using it is retarded, annoys me.

[MENTION=8857]Sephie[/MENTION]; or heck, besides spears they could make a new weapon, "rapiers" (if rapiers werent just a hilt and a stick, meaning little difference between weapon sprites...)

Takebacker Wrote:Looks like paralyze cuts back in damage by a ton when mobbing

KillerZero Wrote:actually, you do give a crap, because us asking to have blunt weapon charges is somehow bothering you?(meaning, you do give a crap about it, just deep down). If it doesn't bother you, and majority of paladins don't care about blunt weapons, then you should have no problem with having optional blunt weapon charges. We are not asking them to soley make blunt weapon charges, we are asking to have the option if you are using a blunt weapon. Yes, blast needs to go back to a 1 on 1. Its not even used as an attack anymore. Its more like, hey if i use this attack while having 5 charges, EVEN if i attack nothing, ill gain buffs. Thats what blast has been reduced to, a slow buff attack. Are we looking at the same skill? I see a black and white marshmellow getting ready in for a pounding. It doesn't fit with the current maple style at all, but that is a matter of preference.

Sephie Wrote:On a side note, I really really really want Paladins to use spears. I mean... all their freaking attacks are thrusts and stabs... of all the things to stab with, they use a hammer <_<. Look at all the charge and Blast animations and tell me a spear wouldn't work in there...

If we're called the "Knight", why no spear <_<

ShinkuDragon Wrote:or heck, besides spears they could make a new weapon, "rapiers" (if rapiers werent just a hilt and a stick, meaning little difference between weapon sprites...)