[Random] Speed/Damage calculations

[SIZE="3"]Calculation referrences for End-All OneHanders[/SIZE]

Upcoming is a set of calculations I've made, to get some insight on End-All OneHanders, preferably Heroes. However, the calculations apply to Pages as well.
I decided to post this merely, so other people could get 'some' insight on this too. If you dislike me, my character or the purpose of this thread, please do not bother to continue. Critism, ofcourse, is welcomed!

*Noah made calculations with perfect Chaos'd gear, which i'll be replaced by my own, old, calculations. All creadits to Noah from SP forums!*

Code:

I'd like to assume the same things as you do:
* Weapon Speed is no factor.
* The Characters are based on a level 200 999 STR 23 DEX Warrior
* Best available equips are provided
* Equips does not expire
* Max maple Warrior is in effect

We can already calculate the Maple Warrior part, as it is based on base stats:
Maple Warrior bonus:
99 str
2 dex

Now, we'll go somewhat badass with the equips, all chaosed:
Gold Earrings:
5 dex base --> 30 dex chaosed.

Horntail Pendant:
9 str base --> 19 str chaosed --> 34 str
9 dex base --> 19 dex chaosed --> 34 dex

OR

Mark of Naricain:
6 str
6 dex
12 watt

Zakum Helmet:
17 str base --> 67 str chaosed
17 dex base --> 67 dex chaosed

Purple Lucida*:
7 str base --> 42 str chaosed
4 dex base --> 39 dex chaosed
[Assuming not gachaponable]

Purple Lucida Skirt*:
5 str base --> 40 str chaosed
4 dex base --> 39 dex chaosed
[Assuming not gachaponable]

Facestompers:
2 watt --> 27 watt chaosed

Brown Work Gloves:
3 watt by 30% scrolling, 6 slots left --> 33 watt chaosed

Taru Spirit Cape:
5 str --> 30 str chaosed
3 watt --> 28 watt chaosed

Raccoon Mask:
1 dex by 30% scrolling, 6 slots left --> 31 dex chaosed

Branch Nose*:
4 str base --> 4 str, 2 dex by 30% scrolling, 9 slots left --> 49 str, 42 dex
[The one which doesn't expire]

Maple Shield:
3 watt, 2 str by 30% scrolling, 9 slots left --> 48 watt, 47 str

Lunchbox:
109 watt base --> 114 watt, 3 str --> 144 watt, 33 str chaosed

Claymore:
112 watt base --> 117 watt, 3 str --> 147 watt, 33 str chaosed

Based on these items, we get:

Total str:
  999
  99
  34 or 6
  67
  42
  40
  30
  49
  47 for 1h
+ 33
= 1363 or 1335 str for 2h
  1410 or 1382 str for 1h
  
Total dex:
  23
  2
  30
  34 or 6
  67
  39
  39
  31
+ 42
= 307 or 279 dex

Total watt:
  0 or 12
  27
  33
  28
  48 for 1h
  144
+ 3 for 2h
= 237 or 249 for 2h
  282 or 294 for 1h
  
So, summing it up:

For HT-pendant:
2h: 1393 str, 307 dex, 235 watt
1h: 1440 str, 307 dex, 280 watt

For MoN:
2h: 1365 str, 279 dex, 247 watt
1h: 1412 str, 279 dex, 292 watt

Based on base damage from the formulas you've obtained:

2h Sword Base Damage Formula: [str * 4.6 + dex] * (watt / 100)
1h Sword Base Damage Formula: [str * 4.0 + dex] * (watt / 100)

We get this:

--- BASE STATS ---
For HT-pendant:
2h: (1393 * 4.6 + 307) * (235 / 100) = 15779.8
1h: (1440 * 4.0 + 307) * (280 / 100) = 16987.6

For MoN:
2h: (1365 * 4.6 + 279) * (247 / 100) = 16198.3
1h: (1412 * 4.0 + 279) * (292 / 100) = 17306.8

--- APPLE STATS ---
For HT-pendant:
2h: (1393 * 4.6 + 307) * (335 / 100) = 22494.6
1h: (1440 * 4.0 + 307) * (380 / 100) = 23054.6

For MoN:
2h: (1365 * 4.6 + 279) * (347 / 100) = 22756.3
1h: (1412 * 4.0 + 279) * (392 / 100) = 23233.8

--- GELT STATS ---
For HT-pendant:
2h: (1393 * 4.6 + 307) * (355 / 100) = 23837.5
1h: (1440 * 4.0 + 307) * (400 / 100) = 24268.0

For MoN:
2h: (1365 * 4.6 + 279) * (367 / 100) = 24067.9
1h: (1412 * 4.0 + 279) * (412 / 100) = 24419.2

--- DEMON ELIXIR STATS ---
For HT-pendant:
2h: (1393 * 4.6 + 307) * (375 / 100) = 25180.5
1h: (1440 * 4.0 + 307) * (420 / 100) = 25481.4

For MoN:
2h: (1365 * 4.6 + 279) * (387 / 100) = 25379.5
1h: (1412 * 4.0 + 279) * (432 / 100) = 25604.6

Summary:
1-handed sword weilders win in all cases.
But that requires a lot of chaos scrolls,
and a ton of luck with that lunchbox.

All credits to Noah for the previous part!

 Spoiler

Code:

2h Sword Base Damage Formula: [STR*4.6 + DEX] * (wAtk / 100)
1h Sword Base Damage Formula: [STR*4.0 + DEX] * (wAtk / 100)

Assume the following:
* Weapon Speed is no factor.
* The Characters are based on a level 200 999 STR 23 DEX Warrior
* Only Weapon and Shield are included
* No skills are used


[U]Perfect (145/21) Dragon Claymore[/U]
[1020*4.6 + 23] * (145/100) = [b]6836[/b]


[U]Perfect Lunchbox (144/21) and Perfect wAtk Shield (30/20)[/U]
[1040*4.0 + 23] * (174/100) = [b]7278[/b]

Here, the One-Haned obliviously has the upper hand.

Now in the next set of calculations, Onyx Apples are inlcuded.

[U]Perfect (145/21) Dragon Claymore[/U]
[1020*4.6 + 23] * (245/100) = [b]11551[/b]


[U]Perfect Lunchbox (144/21) and Perfect wAtk Shield (30/20)[/U]
[1040*4.0 + 23] * (274/100) = [b]11461[/b]

Now the two-handed has a [i]slightly[/i] (90 Damage Output) over the one-handed.

Code:

2h Sword Base Damage Formula: [STR*4.6 + DEX] * (wAtk / 100)
1h Sword Base Damage Formula: [STR*4.0 + DEX] * (wAtk / 100)

Assume the following:
* Calculations are based on a level 200 Warrior with 999 base STR and 23 base DEX
* Best available equips are provided
* Weapon speed is no factor
* Max maple Warrior is in effect

Common gear both one-handed and two-handed will be using:
- Zakum Helm (17/37)
- Horntail's Pendant (23/23)
- Blue Neos Top (27/2)
- Blue Neos Pants (3/21)
- Facestompers (27 att.)
- Brown Work Gloves (21 att.)
- Earrings (15 dex)
- Pink Adventurer Cape (30 att.)
- 4x +1 stat ring (4/4)
- Random Face Assecory (7 dex)

So, in total these bonus stats are provided to both warriors.

58 attack
74 str
109 dex

The two handed warrior will be using a 145/21 Claymore, making his total stats:
58 + 145 = 203 Attack
999 + 99 + 74 + 21 str = 1193 STR
23 + 2 + 109 dex = 134

[U]Perfect Dragon Claymore (145/21)[/U]
[1193*4.6 + 134] * (203/100) = [b]11412[/b]

The one handed warrior will be using a 144/21 Lunchbox and 30/20 attack Shield, making his total stats:
58 + 144 + 30 = 232 attack
999 + 99 + 74 + 21 + 20 = 1213 STR
23 + 2 + 109 = 134 DEX

[U]Perfect Lunchbox (144/21) and Perfect wAtk Shield (30/20)[/U]
[1213*4.0 + 134] * (232/100) = [b]11567[/b]

This puts the one handed user at a small advantage.

However, when Gelts are used (+140 w.att), it gives us the following:

[U]Perfect Dragon Claymore (145/21)[/U]
[1192*4.6 + 134] * (343/100) = [b]19266[/b]

[U]Perfect Lunchbox (144/21) and Perfect wAtk Shield (30/20)[/U]
[1213*4.0 + 134] * (372/100) = [b]18547[/b]

As previously noted, please keep in mind these calculations were based on Perfect characters provided with Wind Booster (for the two handed version).

Calculate with a Naricain Elixer too. Then you might see a more dramatic difference in the 2H vs the 1H.

Also, if you're going to calculate with perfect items, include a Chaos'd HTP.

Code:

* Weapon speed is no factor

As previously noted, please keep in mind these calculations were based on Perfect characters provided with Wind Booster (for the two handed version).

HOLD THE PHONE!!!

If you're not going to factor in weapon speed, then don't do it. (yeah I know it doesn't matter here xD) You'd mind as well include DPS in this case.


Some other things to point out:

--A 12 watk Naricain Pendant will always beat the HTP in terms of sheer damage, even with three Dragon Stones thrown onto it.
--If you're going to include Chaosed items in your list of perfect gear, you'd mind as well go with a perfect Chaosed Zhelm, Blue Neos Top, Blue Neos Pants, Gold Emerald Earrings (the avg ones have 2 DEX and 5 INT), Taru Spirit Cape (replacing the PAC/PGC), and "Random Face Accessory", as well as an Eye Accessory with DEX.

May I ask what the +1 stat rings are?

EDIT: Ty FelixTM xD

May I ask what the +1 stat rings are?

Aura Rings (from the Cash Shop). They've been out for awhile now in GMS.

Do the advantages change if the gear is less than perfect but still equal?

A perfect claymore is 112 attack clean.

Do the advantages change if the gear is less than perfect but still equal?

each attack adds more to the 2h sword. the lunchbox set starts off with a much higher base since the lunchbox itself is free. a less than perfect set of each would see the lunchbox win at some point.

and also think of the disadvantage of carrying around an SI mule.

Also realize that you will never have perfect gear. I don't know why you would want to compare against perfected equips, or perfect chaos'ed equips, or even simply a perfect 2h weapon (since that's pretty unlikely w/o gm scrolls). The fact that you concluded that perfect 2h > perfect 1h doesn't matter since at no point in the game will you ever have perfect equips.

I know this is theoretical, but the comparison would have much a much more practical application if you didn't simply use perfect equips.

Also realize that you will never have perfect gear. I don't know why you would want to compare against perfected equips, or perfect chaos'ed equips, or even simply a perfect 2h weapon (since that's pretty unlikely w/o gm scrolls). The fact that you concluded that perfect 2h > perfect 1h doesn't matter since at no point in the game will you ever have perfect equips.

I know this is theoretical, but the comparison would have much a much more practical application if you didn't simply use perfect equips.

Yeah that was my thought and the reason behind my above question.

This still serves to demonstrate that Onyx Apples + 2h Sword > Onyx Apples + 1h Sword + watk Shield. In other words, watk favors the 2h sword. The quantity of watk stats you have is another issue xD

lol jasper nice work, now go study your math exam!

anyways its not really relevant to your calculations but a lot of ppl forget that guardian also affects dps, when you get kb'd or when you get stunned or even when you take damage it will take time to get back to attacking, thus costs dps.

on an average horntail run you get hit like what? 500 times? (doesnt even matter exacly how much, but you do get hit a lot)

2h with max stance has 90% chance on not getting kb'd,
1h with max stance and max guardian has 91,5% chance on not getting kb'd

with the faster weapons you could do 1-3 (just guessing kinda) attacks while your counterpart has to walk back to the monster and start attacking again.

assuming you do around 5 attacks between every hit you take yourself (just guessing again, just want to make a point here)

thats with some quick calcs around 0,6% more attacks taken that you get hit once per 5 attacks and that you "win" 2 attacks per kb over your 2h counterpart. and then we are not even talking about avoiding stunn yet!

im not saying 1h is better then 2h, also these calculations are way too rough for using as arguments, but the point im making is that when you are comparing 1h to 2h with these small damage differences you should at least make a sidenot of this

This still serves to demonstrate that Onyx Apples + 2h Sword > Onyx Apples + 1h Sword + watk Shield. In other words, watk favors the 2h sword. The quantity of watk stats you have is another issue xD

true that weapon attacks favors the 2h, and also with new and higher atk equips comming available every few patches 2h is definetely the sword with the highest damage potential of the future, but if you calc again who has the potential right now u'll see its 1h just because a 1x 30% 9x +5 chaosed maple shield gives so much weapon attack ofcourse its out of the question that anybody will ever make such a shield but thats another story

This still serves to demonstrate that Onyx Apples + 2h Sword > Onyx Apples + 1h Sword + watk Shield. In other words, watk favors the 2h sword. The quantity of watk stats you have is another issue xD

Does it? If you were to use more commonly attainable equips (instead of perfect chaosed BWG and PACS, which no one will ever get), use onyx apples instead of gelts, since gelts are rare, and factor in mastery into the calculation, you'll find that the 2h either BARELY surpass the 1h (to the point that is is negligible) or is equal to the 1h.

The fact is that using perfect equips and conditions gives 2h an advantage that should be non-existent. Just because 2h has more potential does not mean it will ever achieve that potential. This comparison skews numbers in favor of 2h, and makes a [inaccurate] conclusion based on unrealistic numbers.

Also....

"- Facestompers (27 att.)
- Brown Work Gloves (21 att.)
-Pink Adventurer Cape (30 att.)

So, in total these bonus stats are provided to both warriors.

58 attack"

Apparently 27+21+30 = 58? This is news to me.

Does it? If you were to use more commonly attainable equips (instead of perfect chaosed BWG and PACS, which no one will ever get), use onyx apples instead of gelts, since gelts are rare, and factor in mastery into the calculation, you'll find that the 2h either BARELY surpass the 1h (to the point that is is negligible) or is equal to the 1h.

The fact is that using perfect equips and conditions gives 2h an advantage that should be non-existent. Just because 2h has more potential does not mean it will ever achieve that potential. This comparison skews numbers in favor of 2h, and makes a [inaccurate] conclusion based on unrealistic numbers.

Also....

"- Facestompers (27 att.)
- Brown Work Gloves (21 att.)
-Pink Adventurer Cape (30 att.)

So, in total these bonus stats are provided to both warriors.

You seem to be missing the fact that, in spite of both weapons getting that wAtk from those equips, increasing wAtk still gives 2h swords more attack power than 1h swords.

Let's demonstrate that increasing wAtk results in more power for the 2h sword than the 1h sword.

Code:

2h Sword Damage: (STR*4.6 + DEX) * (wAtk/100)
1h Sword Damage: (STR*4.0 + DEX) * (wAtk/100)
Minimum damages are effectively the same multiplier ratio on STR between 1h and 2h,
   and the effects of DEX are minimal.

For a level 150 Warrior:
--768 STR
--4 DEX
--No equipment, other than a 100 wAtk weapon with no other stats.
--No buffs.

2h Sword Damage = (768*4.6 + 4) * 1 = [B]3536.8[/B]
1h Sword Damage = (768*4.0 + 4) * 1 = [B]3076[/B]
Difference                          = [B][color=Red]460.8[/color][/B]


For a lvl 150 Warrior:
--768 STR
--4 DEX
--No equipment, other than a 100 wAtk weapon with no other stats.
--Onyx Apple effect, which gives 100 wAtk.

2h Sword Damage = 3536.8 * 2 = [B]7073.6[/B]
1h Sword Damage = 3076 * 2   = [B]6152[/B]
Difference                   = [B][color=Red]921.6[/color][/B]

In spite of everything except handedness being the same, there's clearly an effect when you pump up wAtk.

Also, it's a quite harder to get realistically ideal equips for 1h sword + shield setup than a 2h sword setup. The 1h sword + shield setup actually allows for 7-10 more slots worth of upgrades (on the shield), and in this case wAtk happens to be available. If anything, 1h sword + shield has more potential than a 2h sword. I mean, you'd mind as well have permission to shoot Jebus dead if you even manage to get a 30/20 Maple Shield, let alone a 48/47 Maple Shield.

And another advantage that 1h swords have over 2h swords is their speed. This doesn't provide much leeway if you're using a Fast(5) sword like the Sparta, and in fact they still lose to the 2h Normal(6) speed sword when given enough wAtk. Just in case you're wondering, Fast(4) 1h swords still lose out against Fast(5) 2h swords when given enough wAtk. In both cases though, the pace at which 2h swords catch up to 1h sword DPS is rather miniscule. If you're going to a raid-type boss run, this advantage is gone since it's quite likely you'll have a Buccaneer with SI somewhere (unless you absolutely love The Beheader or Beserker for some reason).


@KatanaKiwi: Oops I missed that xD

Well yes, 2h swords do get more damage bonus from additional att than 1h swords under SI, I already knew that.

However like you said, 1h setups have the advantage of additional advantage of having an attack shield. That, along with the lunchbox's high base attack means that even with onyx apples, a lunchbox and shield can match or come extremely close to a 2h sword'd damage.

My point was that perfect equips shouldn't be used in calculations because they stretch the results. Yes, 2h swords gain more bonus from att than 1h swords. 1h swords have attack shields to balance this. However, when you use perfect equips (that are pretty much impossible to attain and therefore not applicable), you give 2h swords a great advantage. This comparison says to me that I should use a dragon claymore instead of my lunchbox and attack shield when bossing under SI and apples. However, this conclusion was derived from a comparison using perfect equips that aren't realistic. My lunchbox might actually be better than the claymore, depending on the stats of everything.

Long story short: having the most potential =/= actually being better. Don't use perfect equips in calculations because they aren't an accurate representation.

Well yes, 2h swords do get more damage bonus from additional att than 1h swords under SI, I already knew that.

However like you said, 1h setups have the advantage of additional advantage of having an attack shield. That, along with the lunchbox's high base attack means that even with onyx apples, a lunchbox and shield can match or come extremely close to a 2h sword'd damage.

My point was that perfect equips shouldn't be used in calculations because they stretch the results. Yes, 2h swords gain more bonus from att than 1h swords. 1h swords have attack shields to balance this. However, when you use perfect equips (that are pretty much impossible to attain and therefore not applicable), you give 2h swords a great advantage. This comparison says to me that I should use a dragon claymore instead of my lunchbox and attack shield when bossing under SI and apples. However, this conclusion was derived from a comparison using perfect equips that aren't realistic. My lunchbox might actually be better than the claymore, depending on the stats of everything.

Long story short: having the most potential =/= actually being better. Don't use perfect equips in calculations because they aren't an accurate representation.

Had I used perfect equips in my calculations, I would have said that 1h sword + shield wins hands down. The Maple Shield would have given way too much wAtk for the 2h sword to catch up. If anything, in a perfect world the 1h sword + shield has much more room for growth than a 2h sword, and the advantages garnered are pretty ridiculous. And also, nowhere did I say "You should use a Night Raven's Wing instead of a Lunchbox and wAtk Maple Shield". Probably implied, yes, but I don't stand behind that statement.

In the OP's calculations, with a 30/20 Maple Shield, he/she still manage the crunch the numbers and show that, in spite of being behind the 1h sword + shield, the 2h sword still came out ahead when an Onyx Apple was involved.

And your tl;dr basically registered in my mind as "1h sword + shield sucks because it has more potential." Potential being number of slots and the scrolls in question.

I'm not arguing in favor of or against 1h swords. I'm simply saying that using perfect equips whether you're factoring in a perfect attack shield or not, skews the numbers and isn't a realistic portrayal.

OP's comparison shows that the perfect 2h wins under SI and apples, but my point was that this conclusion is not accurate since it is with perfect equips. Had OP's comparison included a 48 att maple shield and concluded that 1h wins no matter what, it still would not have been an accurate result since it uses unrealistic equips.

Until a comparison is made with more common equips, You can't claim that "SI and apple 2h > lunchbox" or vice versa.

lol jasper nice work, now go study your math exam!

anyways its not really relevant to your calculations but a lot of ppl forget that guardian also affects dps, when you get kb'd or when you get stunned or even when you take damage it will take time to get back to attacking, thus costs dps.

on an average horntail run you get hit like what? 500 times? (doesnt even matter exacly how much, but you do get hit a lot)

2h with max stance has 90% chance on not getting kb'd,
1h with max stance and max guardian has 91,5% chance on not getting kb'd

with the faster weapons you could do 1-3 (just guessing kinda) attacks while your counterpart has to walk back to the monster and start attacking again.

assuming you do around 5 attacks between every hit you take yourself (just guessing again, just want to make a point here)

thats with some quick calcs around 0,6% more attacks taken that you get hit once per 5 attacks and that you "win" 2 attacks per kb over your 2h counterpart. and then we are not even talking about avoiding stunn yet!

im not saying 1h is better then 2h, also these calculations are way too rough for using as arguments, but the point im making is that when you are comparing 1h to 2h with these small damage differences you should at least make a sidenot of this



true that weapon attacks favors the 2h, and also with new and higher atk equips comming available every few patches 2h is definetely the sword with the highest damage potential of the future, but if you calc again who has the potential right now u'll see its 1h just because a 1x 30% 9x +5 chaosed maple shield gives so much weapon attack ofcourse its out of the question that anybody will ever make such a shield but thats another story

The 2h weapon also has more reach (for pallys until blast update), and you can always use rush (if you are decent at all about controlling it) to get back to the mob without plowing through it

rush is only worth it if you want to avoid zakum's stunn or pianus' have weights attack, for any other bosses i think it'll only take you more time.
and when training it doesnt really apply either since rush has a set range, meaning its the same for 1h/2h heroes and pally's.

anyways with that post i was reffering to bosses, cause at training it doesnt really make a big difference, besides at stuff like skelly's you hardly get hit anyways

As a note: A perfect shield would have 1 30% and 9 chaos with +5 to ATT and STR.

So instead of 30 ATK/20 STR it'd be 48 ATK/47 STR. 18 ATT and 27 STR is a fairly large difference.

This puts 1H slightly ahead.

rush is only worth it if you want to avoid zakum's stunn or pianus' have weights attack, for any other bosses i think it'll only take you more time.
and when training it doesnt really apply either since rush has a set range, meaning its the same for 1h/2h heroes and pally's.

Rush can be rather vital at CWKPQ because Red Nirg's KB is 80,000. Most groups don't have such a capability of dealing that much damage semi-consistently.

As a note: A perfect shield would have 1 30% and 9 chaos with +5 to ATT and STR.

So instead of 30 ATK/20 STR it'd be 48 ATK/47 STR. 18 ATT and 27 STR is a fairly large difference.

This puts 1H slightly ahead.

How do you manage to get an 18 wAtk and 27 STR shield without using Chaos Scrolls? o.O