RE: Boss Damage stacking.

Behold, Southperry. I'm here to help you bust your myths, opinions, and facts or something. Basically this is my attempt at seeing if boss damage truly stacks. I will, however, be needing some assistance on the math, just to see if I'm getting the formulas right.

 Damage Formula

Damage formula: [((Damage Range*Skill%)*Critical)*((1 - PDrate) + (PDrate * (ignore defense total))]* DamageInc

 Kataras and Damage range

http://localhostr.com/files/4LeK66x/mpls...234144.png
28188~40269
http://localhostr.com/files/bBhFYM6/mpls...000046.png
21883~31262

 Actual Damage Screens

http://localhostr.com/files/xC6xcOv/mpls...235938.png
341659.
http://localhostr.com/files/JWJM2H9/mpls...004454.png
211217

 Mathematics

Variables:
Damage Range(s):
28188~40269
21883~31262
Critical Damage: 1.5x
Ignore PDR: 0%, Total PDR: 25% (Dojo monsters have 25% PDR, correct me on this)
Total % Boss Damage: 60% (30% on Dagger, 30% on Katara)
Total % Total Damage: 8% (8% total damage on VIP Katara)
Skill %: 920%, assuming it combines both Katara + Dagger damage. (Sudden Raid)

 Regular Damage with Sudden Raid, assuming 8% total damage.

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.08 = 210057
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.08 = 300085
47 Katara:
Minimum: 21883*920%*.75 = 150993
Maximum: 31262*920%*.75 = 215708

 Assuming 30% boss damage, ignoring 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.3 = 252846
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.3 = 361213
47 Katara:
Minimum: 21883*920%*.75*1.3 = 196291
Maximum: 31262*920%*.75*1.3 = 280420

 Assuming 60% boss damage(additive), ignoring 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.6 = 311196
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.6 = 444569

 Assuming 69% boss damage (multiplicative), ignoring 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.69 = 328700
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.69 = 414932

 Assuming 30% boss damage, whilst multiplying by 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.3*1.08 = 273074
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.3*1.08 = 390110

 Assuming 60% boss damage, whilst multiplying by 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 336091
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 480135

Damage testing gets too tedious, especially with the 1 minute cooldown of Sudden Raid.

 Conclusion

407262 damage. Mano isn't weak to fire.
Looking at our previous results, you'll see that

 Assuming 30% boss damage, ignoring 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.3 = 252846
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.3 = 361213
47 Katara:
Minimum: 21883*920%*.75*1.3 = 196291
Maximum: 31262*920%*.75*1.3 = 280420

 Assuming 30% boss damage, whilst multiplying by 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.3*1.08 = 273074
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.3*1.08 = 390110

This damage number, is larger than both of those calculations. Meaning, in short, that it must have stacked with 30% boss damage. This isn't the only instance of it occurring.

412011.

However, there could still very well be some error to this as I haven't completely confirmed anything as of yet. I've just begun testing and Dual Bladers in general have some pretty f`ucked up formulas. Chances are I'll test this after chaos as well.

Basically speaking, I couldn't test this anymore. Honestly I can't, the one minute cooldown is the biggest pain in the ass known to man. So I couldn't find out if 60% boss damage stacked with 8% total damage, although I'm assuming it does.

tl;dr
Boss damage stacks, and here's mathematical proof and pictures to go with it. Have fun.

Does Sudden Raid work with Mirror Image? I don't remember, but I'm leaning towards no.
Does Tornado Spin use your damage range? I recall testing it myself but I can't recall what the results were.
Does the boss damage potential from a dagger affect katara damage and vice versa?

Anyways. I believe you should be able to test with Mirror Image on an attack. Normally, Mirror Image will do 70% of the damage a skill inflicts. With the +8% total damage potential, this is increased to 75.6%. With 30% Boss Damage this should be increased to 98.28% if it stacks with +8% total damage. If not, it would be 91%. If 30% Boss Damage stacks (additively), with total damage it would be 120.96%. Without total damage, it would be 112%.

Otherwise, your math appears to be correct, but if the above works, you can double check easily. Otherwise, I'm horribly mistaken about Mirror Image and Boss Damage.

Does Sudden Raid work with Mirror Image? I don't remember, but I'm leaning towards no.

No.

Does Tornado Spin use your damage range? I recall testing it myself but I can't recall what the results were.

28188*250%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 91329
40269*250%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 130471

45797/126271 = 36.2%
126271*.7 = 88389
I don't think so.

Does the boss damage potential from a dagger affect katara damage and vice versa?

Not sure what you're asking but I have 30% boss on my dagger and on my blade.

Oh. Not sure. I wonder if this is the case.

Anyways. I believe you should be able to test with Mirror Image on an attack. Normally, Mirror Image will do 70% of the damage a skill inflicts. With the +8% total damage potential, this is increased to 75.6%. With 30% Boss Damage this should be increased to 98.28% if it stacks with +8% total damage. If not, it would be 91%. If 30% Boss Damage stacks (additively), with total damage it would be 120.96%. Without total damage, it would be 112%.

Otherwise, your math appears to be correct, but if the above works, you can double check easily. Otherwise, I'm horribly mistaken about Mirror Image and Boss Damage.

I'll try this out later.

No.

28188*250%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 91329
40269*250%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 130471

45797/126271 = 36.2%
126271*.7 = 88389
I don't think so.



Not sure what you're asking but I have 30% boss on my dagger and on my blade.



I'll try this out later.

That screen shot hurts my brain. I fucking hate Dual Blades. Can't wait for Chaos.

Okay so after some more testing. I have found the number I was looking for. I am fucking done.



This is higher than the max damage of 60% boss damage normally.

 Assuming 60% boss damage(additive), ignoring 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.6 = 311196
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.6 = 444569

Thus fits the model of the boss damage and total damage being factored in.

 Assuming 60% boss damage, whilst multiplying by 8% total damage

112 Katara:
Minimum: 28188*920%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 336091
Maximum: 40269*920%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 480135

wouldn't it be easier to give a spear to a DK and tell him to sacrifice at something?

katara's REALLY confuse me >.<

Now get a claw with 60%! And SP would show stacking right away.

Anyways. I believe you should be able to test with Mirror Image on an attack. Normally, Mirror Image will do 70% of the damage a skill inflicts. With the +8% total damage potential, this is increased to 75.6%. With 30% Boss Damage this should be increased to 98.28% if it stacks with +8% total damage. If not, it would be 91%. If 30% Boss Damage stacks (additively), with total damage it would be 120.96%. Without total damage, it would be 112%.

Mirror Image doesn't work like SP in that respect. My mirror image does like, 56% of the damage of the skills that are buffed by Final Cut's passive 1.25x boost. It does 70% of the damage you would do if you were unbuffed.

I also do 9k mirrored katara hits whose corresponding hits are 169k in PyPQ wth the +400% damage buff.

I won't believe it til someone tests it with one single weapon that has two 30% boss lines on it.

Um, My friend's shadower uses a dagger with 20% boss and 30% boss on it.

If he were to use Shadow Partner + savage blow and the Boss % stacked, all the hits would be around the same damage correct? Due to the SP glitch?

Cause that's the case when I went dojo with him.

Um, My friend's shadower uses a dagger with 20% boss and 30% boss on it.

If he were to use Shadow Partner + savage blow and the Boss % stacked, all the hits would be around the same damage correct? Due to the SP glitch?

Cause that's the case when I went dojo with him.

I need damage range, skill used, ignore PDR and damage shown.

I know for a fact Assassinate does the same damage with SP if it's only a 2 second charge.

I need damage range, skill used, ignore PDR and damage shown.

I know for a fact Assassinate does the same damage with SP if it's only a 2 second charge.

Savage blow
26337~37624
Dagger is 30% boss, 20% boss and 15% PDR

Didn't have the chance to see many samples but all the non crit blows ranged around 36K and all the crit ones 47-50K including the SP hits.

I know assassinate is weird. But a regular dagger with 30% boss only the SP hits are usually about 80% of the range and not 100% right?

I keep missing my friend in game to get more data, but Ill try too soon.

Wouldn't it be easier to check with normal attack, no buffs, no skills, not counting crits?

Wouldn't it be easier to check with normal attack, no buffs, no skills, not counting crits?

Sort of.

24706/38010 = 65%.
50 * 1.3 = 65%.

If the top number divided by the bottom number is more than 65%, or in his case it's 75% of the damage then it stacks.

No, I meant pure normal attack, not relying on shadow partner's quirks.

Normal unbuffed attack using 30+20% boss-damage weapon should be doing 112.5% on Kacchuu Musha (PDR=25, adjust if class has a passive ignore-def skill), if the boss damage stacks. Just one hit lower than (1.125 * min_damage_range) would prove they don't stack. Conversely, one hit higher than (0.975 * max_damage_range) proves they do stack, since 30% boss damage alone can't do it.

Can also do it at Dojo, but different bosses have different PDR there, making it a bit harder to keep track. Another convenient place to test is Krexel, also 25 PDR, but I think it does def-up occasionally?

No, I meant pure normal attack, not relying on shadow partner's quirks.

Shadow partner is much, much easier.

Normal unbuffed attack using 30+20% boss-damage weapon should be doing 112.5% on Kacchuu Musha (PDR=25, adjust if class has a passive ignore-def skill), if the boss damage stacks. Just one hit lower than (1.125 * min_damage_range) would prove they don't stack. Conversely, one hit higher than (0.975 * max_damage_range) proves they do stack, since 30% boss damage alone can't do it.

Too complex. See above.

Can also do it at Dojo, but different bosses have different PDR there, making it a bit harder to keep track. Another convenient place to test is Krexel, also 25 PDR, but I think it does def-up occasionally?

No.
All monsters in dojo have a PDR of 25.

28188*250%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 91329
40269*250%*.75*1.6*1.08 = 130471

45797/126271 = 36.2%
126271*.7 = 88389
I don't think so.

Sorry for posting while the discussion seems to be over, but what's the second part of the calculation? Doesn't Mirror Image still work like it used to Pre-BB? 70% of your range, not the skill damage?

Sorry for posting while the discussion seems to be over, but what's the second part of the calculation? Doesn't Mirror Image still work like it used to Pre-BB? 70% of your range, not the skill damage?

This got changed a long time ago. It's 70% of your skill damage.

Sorry, I've had conflicting schedules with my friend. Finally got him to dojo for me with SP, and the top # was constantly 75% of the bottom. SP makes this tons easier.

Now the question is. Is it only client sided, and maybe the bosses are actually taking only 30/20%. I would assume not, since he swears his HT times are much faster now since he cubed it to 50%.

Second question is if the order of potential (20 on top or bot) matters. And the 3rd I guess is if this applies to everything and not just daggers.

And the last question would be if total % dmg stacks now as well, should be easier to test since there's quite a few gears out there with multiple lines of those I think.

His SS of the dmg, and the dagger used from a while back.

Sorry, I've had conflicting schedules with my friend. Finally got him to dojo for me with SP, and the top # was constantly 75% of the bottom. SP makes this tons easier.

Yeaup.
34119/45493 = 0.74998351394720066823467346624755

Now the question is. Is it only client sided, and maybe the bosses are actually taking only 30/20%. I would assume not, since he swears his HT times are much faster now since he cubed it to 50%.

Client sided would mean only he would see it.. Since you're seeing it.. well... That's server sided.

Second question is if the order of potential (20 on top or bot) matters. And the 3rd I guess is if this applies to everything and not just daggers.

Nope and Yep.

And the last question would be if total % dmg stacks now as well, should be easier to test since there's quite a few gears out there with multiple lines of those I think.

I don't know. However I do know that total % damage stacks with boss % damage.