Will we run out of water before fuel?

i've wondered why people complain/worry over shortages of gas/fuels a lot more than they worry about water. 3% of earths water is fresh, 2 from glaciers, 1 from elsewhere. if i'm right about that.

humans can survive without technology and transportation, but we will absolutely die without water.

is there something im not understanding that makes water less important than oil or other fuels?



also, i also thot its kind of ironic how some considered water (or some form of it) to be used as an alternative fuel source. your killing your primary needs to fill your luxury desires.

Water is never lost, or under natural circumstances anyway. If it is used to create steam, the steam condensates and becomes water again. If it freezes, it melts and becomes water again. And even the water we drink (would rather not explain) comes back.

i've wondered why people complain/worry over shortages of gas/fuels a lot more than they worry about water. 3% of earths water is fresh, 2 from glaciers, 1 from elsewhere. if i'm right about that.

humans can survive without technology and transportation, but we will absolutely die without water.

is there something im not understanding that makes water less important than oil or other fuels?



also, i also thot its kind of ironic how some considered water (or some form of it) to be used as an alternative fuel source. your killing your primary needs to fill your luxury desires.

[SIZE="2"]The current tecnology is able to make seawater drinkable, so no, it won't. You cannot "run out" of matter, this includes water. Matter is not destroyed, only transformed into something else (ie. gas is transformed into Energy)[/SIZE]

[SIZE="2"]The current tecnology is able to make seawater drinkable, so no, it won't. You cannot "run out" of matter, this includes water. Matter is not destroyed, only transformed into something else (ie. gas is transformed into Energy)[/SIZE]

to an extent. yes you are correct, matter is never destroyed, but only very little is ever changed to energy. usually in reactions, gasses or anything really, just change their form or breakdown/combine with other substances and become something else, very little actually becomes energy and only then in very high intensity reactions. which is why we still have so much of the stuff around us now.

OT: as has already been said, water never really gets "used up" it just changes form and location and eventually makes its way back to a usable state (lots and lots of processes inserted here). gas and other fuels change into (for the most part) carbon, gasses and water. none of which is anywhere near as viable a fuel as the gasoline/coal/oil/whatever that it was initially. this is a different type of process/reaction than the water thing though.

You guys.

Converting matter to energy is not as pineappleing simple as you make it sound.

When you burn gas, you're not converting matter into energy. You're releasing potential energy from the matter. The matter doesn't change in mass, it changes in physical or chemical form. The energy that comes out is a conversion of one form of energy (potential) into another kind (in this case, thermal and kinetic, I think).

But yeah, water is never lost under normal circumstances. Only way to lose water would be to break the molecular bonds of the hydrogen and oxygen and permanently ensure that the hydrogen isn't allowed to bond with oxygen ever again.

I think what the TC is referring to is potable water. Sure, water really isn't lost in the entire process of nature. However, if water is sent out into salty oceans, the method of desalinization is very cost-prohibitive, causing more marine pollution, energy consumption, and mineral waste byproduct that is not so good for the environment. In this case, it's possible to lose all potable water in the world causing a worldwide water crisis.

There is plenty of water in the oceans. The third world countries might have trouble (they already do), but we'll be fine. Might take extra work, but we'll be fine. And screw the environment; people are more important.

I never got it though... why can't they just distill ocean water to make it usable for human consumption? I mean, the same sort of thing happens all the time; water evaporates from the ocean, clouds form, rain, groundwater. Obviously the water leaving the minerals in the ocean when it evaporates doesn't cause any harm, why would redistributing distillery waste back into the ocean?

haha, Afrobean, I did discuss desalinization. Perhaps you shoud look it up?

well, we got much less oil and gas, dont we? (seriously, cuz im not sure)
so we worry about it cuz it's harder to get at the moment...
and its much cheaper and easier to make fresh water than oil or gas.

There's something called rain, and it's what makes rivers flow, actually. They don't magically sprout out of a rock. Well, most of the times, anyways :p The process is simple: it rains, water gets to a river, river gets to sea, water from sea evaporates, but the salt doesn't. Repeat as many times as needed, like the last million years. And if you need it desperately, there are other means, like suggested before me.

Edit: AND ALSO! Water can be chemically produced on the atmosphere: It's H2O, and hidrogen and oxigen are abundant in our atmosphere. They sometimes react. And you know what? Water can chemically be divided into Hidrogen and Oxigen, by using electricity, for example. The balance always stays, so don't worry about it. Electric storms are usually dry, guess why?

haha, Afrobean, I did discuss desalinization. Perhaps you shoud look it up?

I don't care enough to look up the specifics on it. I was just trying to say that it makes no sense to me that treating ocean water to be consumable would be a bad thing overall when water from the ocean is naturally cycled into consumable water anyway.

the problem with water is contamination. we are polluting the water, potable and the oceans. soon enough we wont have enough potable water, yes even your "mighty" first world countries will have problems. because of the cost of desalinization and/or cleaning the water to make it usable by humans water will cost more than oil. good luck to us all paying 4 bucks for a gallon of water. let me remind you that a person requires about 3 liters of water per day minimum to survive. forget about taking a shower,washing your clothes or your car. unless you are made of gold of course.

there is no shortage of fuel. most people who think that way is because of false information. there is plenty of oil to go around. the problem we face is that it takes millions of year for fossils to turn into oil and we are using it faster than it can be regenerated. that is why billions of dollars are going into alternative fuel research so we dont depend on oil.

let me remind you that a person requires about 3 liters of water per day minimum to survive.

Load of garbage. There are now scientific studies coming out that the earlier estimated amount of water per day is actually DETRIMENTAL to health due to thinning of enzymes and a few other factors. I drink about 2 glasses of liquid per week, why am I alive?

You guys.

Converting matter to energy is not as pineappleing simple as you make it sound.

When you burn gas, you're not converting matter into energy. You're releasing potential energy from the matter. The matter doesn't change in mass, it changes in physical or chemical form. The energy that comes out is a conversion of one form of energy (potential) into another kind (in this case, thermal and kinetic, I think).

But yeah, water is never lost under normal circumstances. Only way to lose water would be to break the molecular bonds of the hydrogen and oxygen and permanently ensure that the hydrogen isn't allowed to bond with oxygen ever again.

Molecular bonds break and form quite easily, actually; water is an infinite resource if you consider the universe infinite. It technically isn't, but in our current highest order of thinking, we cannot comprehend what it outside the barrier edge of the universe, so even if we have the KNOWLEDGE that it isn't infinite, our minds still meld what is inside and what is outside of the universe together, to soothe our unease about not knowing something, a bit like what religion does with how we were created, et cetera.

Oil is a limited resource, because, even if it is a renewing one, we use it exponentially faster than it can form. Basically, if we don't get a new energy source within a few decades, we will have no fuel anywhere that is within our reach. Which, by the way, will happen thanks to our lovely oil monopolies; they will milk it it down to the last drop and then bail out and leave us in the burning building alone, to figure out how to sustain life on our own. Not to be an anti-capitalist or anything, but the very idea of such a thing is a veritable breeding ground for corruption.

the problem with water is contamination. we are polluting the water, potable and the oceans. soon enough we wont have enough potable water, yes even your "mighty" first world countries will have problems. because of the cost of desalinization and/or cleaning the water to make it usable by humans water will cost more than oil. good luck to us all paying 4 bucks for a gallon of water. let me remind you that a person requires about 3 liters of water per day minimum to survive. forget about taking a shower,washing your clothes or your car. unless you are made of gold of course.

You have a good point there. Anyways, I hope that, when fuel runs out/stops being used, people will focus on alternate energy sources. And one of them is water. Let's just hope we do the correct thing.

And I say this because there's fishy stuff behind the fuel market... Some genious made a car that worked only with water, and the week after, he disappeared. And an electric car was fully developed, with almost the same top speed/independence. No success on that one. If those companies can control the market so much, and water becomes the next fuel, they'll develope something to clean it... Or maybe to keep it all for themselves, and sell for higher...

Load of garbage. There are now scientific studies coming out that the earlier estimated amount of water per day is actually DETRIMENTAL to health due to thinning of enzymes and a few other factors. I drink about 2 glasses of liquid per week, why am I alive?

Oh, really? So I can drink 2 glasses of liquid, water, juice, coke, or whatever and I'll do fine? Great! [/sarcasm]

Wikipedia doesn't tell so.

The human body is anywhere from 55% to 78% water depending on body size. To function properly, the body requires between one and seven liters of water per day to avoid dehydration; the precise amount depends on the level of activity, temperature, humidity, and other factors. Most of this is ingested through foods or beverages other than drinking straight water. It is not clear how much water intake is needed by healthy people, though most advocates agree that 6–7 glasses of water (approximately 2 litres) daily is the minimum to maintain proper hydration. Medical literature favors a lower consumption, typically 1 liter of water for an average male, excluding extra requirements due to fluid loss from exercise or warm weather. For those who have healthy kidneys, it is rather difficult to drink too much water, but (especially in warm humid weather and while exercising) it is dangerous to drink too little. People can drink far more water than necessary while exercising, however, putting them at risk of water intoxication (hyperhydration), which can be fatal. The "fact" that a person should consume eight glasses of water per day cannot be traced back to a scientific source.[23] There are other myths such as the effect of water on weight loss and constipation that have been dispelled.

An original recommendation for water intake in 1945 by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Research Council read: "An ordinary standard for diverse persons is 1 milliliter for each calorie of food. Most of this quantity is contained in prepared foods." The latest dietary reference intake report by the United States National Research Council in general recommended (including food sources): 2.7 liters of water total for women and 3.7 liters for men. Specifically, pregnant and breastfeeding women need additional fluids to stay hydrated. According to the Institute of Medicine—who recommend that, on average, women consume 2.2 litres and men 3.0 litres—this is recommended to be 2.4 litres (approx. 9 cups) for pregnant women and 3 litres (approx. 12.5 cups) for breastfeeding women since an especially large amount of fluid is lost during nursing. Also noted is that normally, about 20 percent of water intake comes from food, while the rest comes from drinking water and beverages (caffeinated included). Water is excreted from the body in multiple forms; through urine and feces, through sweating, and by exhalation of water vapor in the breath. With physical exertion and heat exposure, water loss will increase and daily fluid needs may increase as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water#Health_and_pollution


Damn! I just realized how much water I waste drinking man!

Load of garbage. There are now scientific studies coming out that the earlier estimated amount of water per day is actually DETRIMENTAL to health due to thinning of enzymes and a few other factors. I drink about 2 glasses of liquid per week, why am I alive?

the water you intake doesnt mean you drink it. some water comes from the food you eat, when you drink coffe, when you have a soda or soup that is water, and it is true that some people have a lower need for water than others. the 3 liters of water per day is an aproximation, its an average, reality is every person is different. just because you are not dead doesnt mean you are healthy, dehydration can cause diseases like asthma , hypertension , ulcers , allergies and arthritis .

excuse me for using actual sources in a maple story forum, but since you want to call bull and talk about studies lets have us some fun.

http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC4151.htm

HOW MUCH IS NEEDED?

On an average day, a healthy adult needs 8 to12 cups of water to replace the amount lost through perspiration, breathing, urination, and bowel movements. These fluids must be replaced to avoid dehydration and to keep the body working normally. When eating a high fiber diet, extra water is needed to process the additional roughage.

In general, one quart of water is needed daily for every 50 pounds of body weight. The exact amount of water needed depends on: age; gender; weight; health; level of physical activity; foods eaten; any medications taken; and the weather.

Thirst is one sign that you need fluids. Your current fluid intake is probably adequate if you drink enough water to quench your thirst, you feel well, and you produce a normal amount of urine that is colorless or slightly yellow. However, do not wait until you feel thirsty before drinking something. Sometimes the brain doesn’t get the thirst signal. Older adults often lose the ability to sense thirst.
WHAT DETERMINES WATER NEEDS?

Exercise: When involved in an active sport that makes you sweat, drink plenty of water throughout the day, not just during the activity. Sweat, or perspiration, is the body’s natural way of cooling down, especially on a hot day or when your body gets a real physical workout. Without fluids, your body overheats. To replace fluid loss, drink plenty of water and juice or milk before, during, and after physical activity. These fluids prevent dehydration and the tiredness that accompanies it.

To avoid cramps and dehydration during activity, drink fluids at regular intervals, and continue to replenish with water after the activity is completed. A good rule of thumb is to drink a cup of fluid every 15 minutes during and immediately after exercise.

Drink the following amounts of fluids when exercising rigorously or in very hot weather:

—2 cups during the two hours before exercising;

—1 to 2 cups within 15 minutes of the activity;

—½ to 1 cup every 15 to 20 minutes during exercise. (One medium mouthful of fluid equals about 1 ounce, and 8 ounces equals 1 cup.)

—3 cups for each pound of body weight lost.

For most physically active people, water is the best fluid choice. Sports drinks are necessary only for endurance athletes and people who have exercised for an hour or more, because they lose sodium and potassium through sweating.

If I remember correctly, the magazine Nutrition Action (uses reliable peer-reviewed studies for information) confirmed that you need 8-12 cups of water/day - and that requirement can be mostly fulfilled via eating normal food. Drinking 12 cups of water each day in addition to consuming regular amounts of food is overzealous at best and dangerous at worst, assuming you aren't an athlete.

Now for the anecdote: I tried drinking 8 glasses of water per day for a week once, and I felt like total crap. 2/day and some juice, everything else comes from food and I'm 100% healthy.

You have a good point there. Anyways, I hope that, when fuel runs out/stops being used, people will focus on alternate energy sources...

Scientists are focusing on developing alternate energy sources now. Oil will stop being used only when those alternates are cheaper, or the oil runs out. If we don't have a cheaper alternate energy source by the time oil runs out, we can say goodbye to our life as we know it.

Actually, the TS is right, no matter how you guys are arguing.

Wars are already being fought over water... Darfur, in part, is an example.

Potable water is rare and valuable, and we're polluting it daily with things we can't easily get out of it so easily as salt. And anyway, desalination is extremely expensive, and the salt leeching might pollute any fresh water nearby.

Water is so cheap that we use far too much of it, like the way gasoline used to be in the 90s, and the way I'd argue it still is now. The prices of our products don't reflect the true environmental costs of using them... If they did, we would all be (or be forced to be) more responsible.

You're all thinking first-world about this. Can 90% of the world afford desalinated water, or water cleaned of pollution by sophisticated plants? Since many of them cannot even afford to have their water cleaned of parasites, bacteria, or even raw sewage, I'd say the answer is no.

We cannot rely on rain, either... Global warming is causing severe drought in many areas of the world, and deforestation is creating deserts from once-lush rainforests that would have held the water. Now, it just runs off into the ocean.


EDIT: About alternative energy sources. Most people agree that water cars could run on seawater (in fact, the salt may help speed the process). They would change water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen by recombining it with the oxygen. (In a chemical sense, the word "burn" means to react spontaneously with oxygen to produce water and, except with hydrogen, carbon dioxide. We actually do "burn" calories, because we turn sugars into CO2 and H2O.) However, they aren't really "water" cars, since they only convert the energy used to separate water into combustion energy... Essentially, it's a clean way of making an internal combustion engine work on the electricity that separates the water. You still have to generate the electricity from something else, though.

The cleanest (and probably cheapest, once we develop the technology and take into account the environmental costs of cleaning up our mess) energy sources known to man are solar, wind, and hydroelectric power. The most expensive, removing government subsidies and counting environmental costs, is nuclear... by far. Coal is also a biggie.