2010-09-15, 01:42 AM (This post was last modified: 2010-10-15, 04:30 PM by KajitiSouls.)
Old OP
I managed to get a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for practically free, so I'm most likely to go the buy-by-parts route for my new computer once I get a stable source of income... which is hopefully soon if the plans work out. (I'm currently on unpaid internship with the state)
Nearly any knowledge of computers and shyts is earned from my brothers and whatever I found on the internet, so I'm not exactly a superstar with knowing what hardware does what. That's where you guys come in! My current shopping list and priorities are outlined below, and I'm looking for any advise or corrections, tell me what I'm missing, etc.
Budget: $750-$1000 or so?
Objective: A gaming computer I can use for a long while. Not a hardcore top-line one; don't need Crysis on high specs. Overclocking may be used later on.
Primary hardware:
Motherboard - PCI Express, generally advanced capabilities (still needs research).
Graphics card of justice! I heard ATI Radeons are generally better.
Power supply so that mtherfker graphics card can be happy and fed.
2x Processors. Aka dual core.
Hard drive with decent RPM. I would like to do some pilot testing on Fraps and mass data processing for yet another future computer.
Ethernet adapter. I don't trust Comcast, and the connection via wifi has been utter garbage these days.
Speakers (for some reason not a single salvageable one can be found in my house).
Keyboard (ditto).
4 Gigs of RAM.
CD/DVD drive of some sort.
Computer case with matching form factors.
Fan, or two.
Secondary hardware:
New monitor
New mouse for gaming
Mic, for VOIP and Mumble stuff in generalSound card of not-crap. Even though I've played the piano and violin, I could hardly give a rat's ass on sound quality above and beyond the standard. Just so long as I don't get static and I don't have to use an integrated sound card on the mother board =P
Alright, excluding the externals and neglecting internet connectivity, I've completed my list! Please scrutinize it for incompatibilities and any serious issues that it may have, such as power and dimensions. Comments and suggestions are also welcome.
Apparently my older bro is getting a new GPU, and may hand me down his old one if I ask. It's along the lines of the Arstechnica Budget Box 2009 guide.
CPU
AMD Phenom II X3 740
$88.99
Does not come with a fan
Case
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$44.99
Case+PSU
Antec Sonata III ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply
$104.99
Beware combo deals
HDD
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS
$69.99
If DOA, will be a supreme hassle to get corrected if ordered from Newegg.
Will use short stroking.
Reasonings:
CPU was basically a bang for buck deal. I probably would have went Phenom II, but the deals were significantly more expensive in comparison.
PSU could have definitely went cheaper, but I didn't exactly want to face hardware destruction if it should fail. So I went to overclock.net and took a look at the recommended selections, backed by sheer comprehensive review mass and good ratings.
Case also could have went cheaper, but... I got tired of looking at that stuff after a while. The one I've selected has plenty of opportunity to expand cooling capacity, minus the bottom mounted PSU (eww).
HDD does not require a lot of capacity. Taking my laptop as an example, I've only used 75-80% of its HD capacity of 110GB, and it's been 2 years. I've never really cleaned it out either. Given the generous data splurge I might do with a gaming rig, 640GB should be way plenty.
Complete description name list of parts
Code:
[U]Main [/U]
MOBO: ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
CPU: AMD Athlon II X3 445 Rana 3.1GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor ADX445WFGMBOX
RAM: WINTEC AMPX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 3AXH1333C9WS4GK
GPU: XFX HD-487A-ZWFC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
PSU: SILVERSTONE ST45SF 450W SFX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
Case: Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ,comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
DVDD: LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Writer
[U]Alternatives [/U]
CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 740 Black Edition Heka 3.0GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor HDZ740WFK3DGI - OEM
Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Case+PSU: Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
This project has been like a 6th college class to me x_X. But thank you everyone that's responded so far! Even if your suggestions were sub-optimal to my interests, they were still comparisons, and I could see what a working system should look like.
I'll probably look at bare-bones later to see how I did in savings (not buying one), after getting a mechanical keyboard squared away (where can I find those?).
Keep in mind that many of those items can be exchanged for cheaper options, and that shopping around for parts is a MUST! If Newegg has a cheaper MOBO, but TigerDirect has this Processor for CHEAP, then GET BOTH! You can save a ton of money if you just shop around.
The case is just one that i found. 50 dollars for a case is normal, most cases are this price.
The MOBO I found for you can Crossfire 2 ATI Radeons if you want it to. I stick with ASUS for my motherboards.
The RAM can be replaced with cheaper RAM, but Corsair is noted for quality products.
The PSU you should probably stick with. Its Corsair and 750 Watts.
The Processor you can lower to an i5 and save a few bucks if you want. The motherboard I picked out supports both i5 and i7.
The Hard Drive can be exchanged for almost any hard drive on the market. It just depends on how much space you want/Price youre willing to pay. I usually stick with Seagate and Western Digital
You didnt want it, but this computer should be able to run Crysis on High Quailty.
-Note- I did not account for a Monitor/Keyboard/Mouse/Speakers/ Cd/Dvd drive. These items can be bought from almost anywhere, and for any price. You can get a 200 dollar keyboard or a 17 dollar model. The same applys for most of the items.
One final note, DO NOT GO WITH WATERCOOLING! Ive had a few friends ruin their computers with this.
That is one nice case. I got myself an Antec nine-hundred a few years ago and loved it. That case is very similar to the antec, so I think it should be quite aerodynamic.
One thing I found is that the stock CPU heatsink is generally not enough (but it's probably because I got the quad core), so you may want to look into getthing a better heatsink.
Keep in mind that many of those items can be exchanged for cheaper options, and that shopping around for parts is a MUST! If Newegg has a cheaper MOBO, but TigerDirect has this Processor for CHEAP, then GET BOTH! You can save a ton of money if you just shop around.
The case is just one that i found. 50 dollars for a case is normal, most cases are this price.
The MOBO I found for you can Crossfire 2 ATI Radeons if you want it to. I stick with ASUS for my motherboards.
The RAM can be replaced with cheaper RAM, but Corsair is noted for quality products.
The PSU you should probably stick with. Its Corsair and 750 Watts.
The Processor you can lower to an i5 and save a few bucks if you want. The motherboard I picked out supports both i5 and i7.
The Hard Drive can be exchanged for almost any hard drive on the market. It just depends on how much space you want/Price youre willing to pay. I usually stick with Seagate and Western Digital
You didnt want it, but this computer should be able to run Crysis on High Quailty.
-Note- I did not account for a Monitor/Keyboard/Mouse/Speakers/ Cd/Dvd drive. These items can be bought from almost anywhere, and for any price. You can get a 200 dollar keyboard or a 17 dollar model. The same applys for most of the items.
One final note, DO NOT GO WITH WATERCOOLING! Ive had a few friends ruin their computers with this.
Oh jeez, where to begin.. The 4870 you picked out is well well overpriced, these cards sell for around $100-120 in new condition, not to mention that the HD4000 series is well old and outdated.
The 1156 motherboard you picked out will not work with 1336 processors. Yes, the board say compatible with i7 processor, but Intel is talking bout the 800 series, and not the 900 series meant for LGA 1366.
and to nitpick, you can find a much better hard drive for money lol.
Corsair as a company while good isn't always the best solution. There are many other brands that offer better performance for less.
KajitiSouls Wrote:I managed to get a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for practically free, so I'm most likely to go the buy-by-parts route for my new computer once I get a stable source of income... which is hopefully soon if the plans work out. (I'm currently on unpaid internship with the state)
Nearly any knowledge of computers and shyts is earned from my brothers and whatever I found on the internet, so I'm not exactly a superstar with knowing what hardware does what. That's where you guys come in! My current shopping list and priorities are outlined below, and I'm looking for any advise or corrections, tell me what I'm missing, etc.
Budget: $750-$1000 or so?
Objective: A gaming computer I can use for a long while. Not a hardcore top-line one; don't need Crysis on high specs. Overclocking may be used later on.
Primary hardware:
Motherboard - PCI Express, generally advanced capabilities (still needs research). Do you prefer Intel or AMD? both over great performance for the price. One is neither better than the other both have strong points.
Graphics card of justice! I heard ATI Radeons are generally better. My specialty, I can recommend a card depending on your needs.
Power supply so that mtherfker graphics card can be happy and fed. Depending on the graphics and processor you pick, this will be quite easy. Refer to JohnnyGURU.com for all your PSU needs.
Hard drive with decent RPM. I would like to do some pilot testing on Fraps and mass data processing for yet another future computer.
Have you thought about a Solid state drive for boot? This will actually make your computer "fast". As for storage, a Samsung f3 has to be around the quietest and fastest drive for the money.
Ethernet adapter. I don't trust Comcast, and the connection via wifi has been utter garbage these days. Standard motherboards have decent on board Ethernet NIC's. Hierarchy of on board Ethernet" Intel>Marvell>Realtek.
Speakers (for some reason not a single salvageable one can be found in my house). Cant help you here, I'm into professional Audio. I know nothing about standard desktop speakers lol.
Keyboard (ditto). Can I recommend you a mechanical keyboard? They cost more but last a long time lol.
4 Gigs of RAM. Depending on whether you pick intel or AMD, I can recommend the best ram for the money.
CD/DVD drive of some sort. Easy, you won't need my help
Computer case with matching form factors. You have to pick this . I personally think most "gamer" cases are ugly. I pretty much hate anything with a stupid window or plastic shell.
Fan, or two.
Secondary hardware:
New monitor
New mouse for gaming
It's getting late, I'll bbl tomorrow...
In bold.
Intel and AMD are both releasing new architectures in 2011. It's best to hold off on a new computer until then.
KajitiSouls Wrote:I managed to get a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for practically free, so I'm most likely to go the buy-by-parts route for my new computer once I get a stable source of income... which is hopefully soon if the plans work out. (I'm currently on unpaid internship with the state)
Nearly any knowledge of computers and shyts is earned from my brothers and whatever I found on the internet, so I'm not exactly a superstar with knowing what hardware does what. That's where you guys come in! My current shopping list and priorities are outlined below, and I'm looking for any advise or corrections, tell me what I'm missing, etc.
Budget: $750-$1000 or so?
Objective: A gaming computer I can use for a long while. Not a hardcore top-line one; don't need Crysis on high specs. Overclocking may be used later on.
Primary hardware:
Motherboard - PCI Express, generally advanced capabilities (still needs research).
Graphics card of justice! I heard ATI Radeons are generally better.
Power supply so that mtherfker graphics card can be happy and fed.
Hard drive with decent RPM. I would like to do some pilot testing on Fraps and mass data processing for yet another future computer.
Ethernet adapter. I don't trust Comcast, and the connection via wifi has been utter garbage these days.
Speakers (for some reason not a single salvageable one can be found in my house).
Keyboard (ditto).
4 Gigs of RAM.
CD/DVD drive of some sort.
Computer case with matching form factors.
Fan, or two.
Secondary hardware:
New monitor
New mouse for gaming
It's getting late, I'll bbl tomorrow...
You can often buy a barebones machine and upgrade it for a lot cheaper sometimes, but in this case you will probably stretch your budget a bit for a reliable gaming rig.
Since you're going for general gaming usage and not anything strictly multimedia, I'm going the AMD route... and Nvidia is actally more rcommended than ATi. Not that I have anything against AMD/ATi, I just have yet to see a graphics card from them that delivers better quality than Nvidia stuff. Now let's get you a good PC designed and not break your bank in the process.
The ASRock mother board there has a GeForce 8200 chipset and it's a good quality chipset and Nvidia does make good products. Includes a PCIe x16 2.0 expansion slot, 2 PCI 2.1 slots, and a PCIe x1 slot as well. The motherboard also supports Hybrid SLI which allows the onboard video to work with the PCIe x16 graphics card for extra processing power and capabilities. Realtek's ALC 8xx series has some decent audio as well and for anything you really don't need an extra sound card unless you want to push out more money.
CoolerMaster is actually a supplier of many retail fans supplied with CPUs. This should work fine and save you some money as well and it's tailored for your board as well.
The GeForce 9800 GT 1GB. For what the card can do, it's a powerhouse. It's actually faster than some newer models and better designed also. I use one myself... damn good card and within your budget.
Acer makes good monitors. In fact that's actually their best product... sad they have better monitors than PCs.
And this all comes out to:
$727.91 which isn't bad. The trick is don't overspend on parts that just aren't necessary or too luxurious. Keeping a PC simple makes it also economical for you and makes upgrading later on less stressful.
This PC design should last you at least a good 5 years.
And if you are adamant about a good sound card check this one out:
The ASUS Xonar DX for PCIe x1. It's actually better than the Sound Blaster series and was built around the new DirectSound specification for Vista and 7. I have one... it's a good buy and will only add $79.99 to your purchase and still keep you on budget.
OPTI-UPS's power supply back up unit. THESE WILL SAVE YOUR ASS!!! Trust me, having enough time to power down the PC if the power fails will save you also from replacing valued parts, prevent lost data, and it offers surge protection. Desktops unlike a laptop do not have the backup of a battery built into them. Unless you want to reformat a lot and run the risk of data loss, spending extra for one of these bad boys is the WISEST investment you'll ever make for a PC.
$39.99 for a small piece of PC insurance is NOT something to skimp on.
It's the same as Norton quality-wise, but without the bloatware and overtaxing system components. Recommended!! $39.99 for an OEM corporate copy of anti-virus, anti-malware, and firewall software is a GREAT find.
2010-09-15, 05:23 AM (This post was last modified: 2010-09-15, 06:47 AM by Skylit.)
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:Since you're going for general gaming usage and not anything strictly multimedia, I'm going the AMD route... and Nvidia is actally more rcommended than ATi. Not that I have anything against AMD/ATi, I just have yet to see a graphics card from them that delivers better quality than Nvidia stuff. Now let's get you a good PC designed and not break your bank in the process.
The GeForce 9800 GT 1GB. For what the card can do, it's a powerhouse. It's actually faster than some newer models and better designed also. I use one myself... damn good card and within your budget.
The AMD Phenom X4 9850. Good CPU for an inexpensive price. It's quad-core and it's OEM so we can get you a nicer fan/heatsink unit for it.
Errr, sorry, but the phenom I's get outperformed by modern day athlons.. The IMC's were horrible and they clock like poo...... Heck even a Phenom II dual core will rape that thing all day.
As for the 9800GT, it's nothing more than a rebranded 8800GT... The card is around 3 years old and shouldn't even be recommended that that price..
The Nvidia GTS450 just dropped a few days ago, but even that thing gets smashed by ATI's 5770 at the same price point.
Quote:Budget: $750-$1000 or so?
Objective: A gaming computer I can use for a long while. Not a hardcore top-line one; don't need Crysis on high specs. Overclocking may be used later on.
It's not about what's going to be killer here. It's about what's going to work best for the price.
His PC has potential and it can be upgraded at a later date. For now this will be a good place to start.
A 9800GT cannot touch a 5770 when it comes to price/performance, not to mention that you get "futurerpoof" (I hate that word) DX11 capabilies with both the 5770 or even weaker GTS450 if you choose that route.
Keep in mind that the phenom I 9850s barely reach 3 Ghz while the Phenom II 555's can reach 4 Ghz with a decent cooler easly. They also have the possibility to unlock to Tri or quad cores, but that's a different story.
There is a good reason I recommended the 9800 GT... look carefully at the card... it's called space. The GTS 4xx and the Radeon 5xxx series all take up 2 slots whereas the 9800 GT takes up 1 slot. 20~30 bucks more to take up valuable air flow space or the possibility of a replacement network adapter or maybe even a replacement SATA adapter? No thank you.
Big deal if the Ph1s don't reach 3.0Hz or more... quad-core CPUs will run programs more effectively than the dual-cores will. Most programs are now optimized to use multiple CPU cores for multitasking purposes. More cores means more tasks that can be performed at once. It's not just about speed and raw power for one program, it about how many tasks and operations a PC can perform at once. And as a licensed PC tech I don't rely on benchmarks. Benchmarks are biased at a single PC specification that's unrealistic in normal everyday models and usage factors.
He has Windows 7 Ultimate anyways. A quad-core CPU will be better for this OS as it will allow for better multi-tasked operations for the system services. 7 and even Vista utilize a lot of resources. More CPU cores will allow the processes, services, and task to have more resources to pull from. Yes the Dual-Core Ph2 is faster, but it has less resources to offer for the system to draw from, and resources are now more valuable than raw speed and power.
Just because Anandtech or Guru3D says something is good, doesn't mean it's good for everyone for a wide spectrum of situations.
This is why the 9800 GT still costs as much as it does. It still beats the GT 240 series which is a more modern GPU/VPU. Yes it's 1 DirectX specification lower (DirectX 10 compared to DirectX 10.1) but really what uses this stuff other than a Benchmark or some over-hyped crappy game that comes after a whole year after a card is released that it's designed for. Nothing really even uses DirectX 10, 10.1, or 11 really. Everything is still built for DirectX 9.0c with maybe some extensions for DirectX 10, 10.1, and 11 specification eye candy. Why else does Microsoft distribute the DirectX "X" libraries for their developers to include with their games? Even the latest DirectX SDK from Microsoft is only DirectX 9.0c specification but it has extension and managed libraries added for developers to add DirectX 10, 10.1, and 11 features, most of which are still unused if not underused.
2010-09-15, 09:48 AM (This post was last modified: 2010-09-15, 12:38 PM by Skylit.)
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:There is a good reason I recommended the 9800 GT... look carefully at the card... it's called space. The GTS 4xx and the Radeon 5xxx series all take up 2 slots whereas the 9800 GT takes up 1 slot. 20~30 bucks more to take up valuable air flow space or the possibility of a replacement network adapter or maybe even a replacement SATA adapter? No thank you.
Yet, the single slot 9800GT will run considerably hotter. There's also a reason why Nvidia switched from single slot to dual slot coolers around the time the 8800GT launched. Oh yeah, they were hitting 90-100C. Don't complain about airflow when your card is going to run considerably hotter than a dual slot design. I also have no clue why he would even need a NIC or SATA controller when the onboard ones are sufficient.
Btw, we're in the year 2010, not 2007. Motherboards and video cards are designed the way they are to keep cool. The only reason I would consider a single slot card is if I was building an ITX rig or something along the lines.. rofl
I'll admit, I find it funny how you're ignoring the performance aspect of the matter.
Big deal if the Ph1s don't reach 3.0Hz or more... quad-core CPUs will run programs more effectively than the dual-cores will. Most programs are now optimized to use multiple CPU cores for multitasking purposes. More cores means more tasks that can be performed at once. It's not just about speed and raw power for one program, it about how many tasks and operations a PC can perform at once.
Big deal? It IS a big deal when your processor bottlenecks your graphics card. Also, please please please list the REAL world programs that take advantage of quad cores. Unless you're encoding, a quad core won't benefit the average user or better yet gamer unless the actual game allows for multicore rendering.
The original phenom's were complete junk, they had horrible IMC's and required massive amounts of voltage which lead to heat problems on chips with bad binning. Overclocking? forget it.
And as a licensed PC tech I don't rely on benchmarks. Benchmarks are biased at a single PC specification that's unrealistic in normal everyday models and usage factors. The last time I checked we were configuring a GAMING computer. Benchmarks matter whether you do this for a living or not. If you want to talk about being unrealistic, lets talk about WHY he needs a quadcore, shall we?
He has Windows 7 Ultimate anyways. A quad-core CPU will be better for this OS as it will allow for better multi-tasked operations for the system services. 7 and even Vista utilize a lot of resources. More CPU cores will allow the processes, services, and task to have more resources to pull from.Yes the Dual-Core Ph2 is faster, but it has less resources to offer for the system to draw from, and resources are now more valuable than raw speed and power.
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Oh and this is killing me...Please show me the real world benefits of running an OS with a quad opposed to a dual core using the same amount of DDR3 ram. I've had/used machines with i7's to i3's to Athlons to Phenoms and to be honest, you sound like mumbo jumbo at the moment.
If you want the truth, the most beneficial thing you can buy for the OS would be a SSD. As long as you have an up to date ICH10R or 850SB, you'll never want to go back to a standard mechanical drive. I'm to a point where I can't even stand using my laptop due to how slow the drive is.
Just because Anandtech or Guru3D says something is good, doesn't mean it's good for everyone for a wide spectrum of situations.
They compare and show the difference in performance between hardware. The main purpose of his build is a gaming computer, not a rendering powerhouse. IF that was the case I would have to recommended him the AthlonII x4 620 or AthlonII x4 635 if he happened to be on a budget, which he isn't.
I haven't really had the chance to really recommended him ANYTHING yet. I'm still waiting for his response as to whether he wants to go Intel or AMD. I was honestly just using the 555x2 as an example to counter your recommendation.
Read this:
This is why the 9800 GT still costs as much as it does. It still beats the GT 240 series which is a more modern GPU/VPU. Yes it's 1 DirectX specification lower (DirectX 10 compared to DirectX 10.1) but really what uses this stuff other than a Benchmark or some over-hyped crappy game that comes after a whole year after a card is released that it's designed for. Nothing really even uses DirectX 10, 10.1, or 11 really. Everything is still built for DirectX 9.0c with maybe some extensions for DirectX 10, 10.1, and 11 specification eye candy. Why else does Microsoft distribute the DirectX "X" libraries for their developers to include with their games? Even the latest DirectX SDK from Microsoft is only DirectX 9.0c specification but it has extension and managed libraries added for developers to add DirectX 10, 10.1, and 11 features, most of which are still unused if not underused.
Whoa! You found the GT240! Guess what? It's nothing more than a rebranded 9600GT with DX10.1 capabilities... Wanna guess what the GTS250 really is?
"Nothing really even uses DirectX 10, 10.1, or 11 really. Everything is still built for DirectX 9.0c with maybe some extensions for DirectX 10, 10.1, and 11 specification eye candy"
Shattered horizons, Just Cause 2, Battlefield 3, and MAYBE Crysis 2 have no DX9 support. They're pure DX10 with DX11 extensions.You can argue that there's no need for a DX11 card, but I certainly like the extra eyecandy. Besides, I'll say it once and I'll say it again. The 9800GT is old and cant handle games as well as a lot of the newer cards.
As for DX10/11 games that use extensions.. Battleforge, Battlefield Bad Company 2,, Medal of honor, Alien VS Predator, Bioshock, Bioshock 2, Crysis, Crysis Warhead, Devil May Cry 4, Farcry 2, Just Cause 2, Metro 2033, Resident Evil 5, STALKER: ClearSky, STAKER: Call of pripyat, Tom Clancy HAWX, Dirt2, Dirt 3, Civilazation V, Cryostasis, Crysis 2 (?)...
I can't think of anymore.
To be honest, I'm not trying to stear anyone away from buying a quad, but there's a lot of misinformation going around.
A quad core is normally the better choice, but it dosen't really benefit the average real world user unless hes encoding, or using a program built for multicore rendering. A dual core with an up to date architecture will almost ALWAYS be superior to older tech, regardless of how many cores it has in it. I mean, look at the Quad core i7's.. They're destroying the brand new Phenom x6's in mutlicore benchmarks and rendering due to a revised and faster architecture..compared to AMD's K8/K10 which dates back to 2003.. lol
2010-09-15, 01:02 PM (This post was last modified: 2010-09-15, 03:14 PM by KajitiSouls.)
Oh wow that was a lot more advice than I was anticipating! And a lot more technical terms being thrown around than I'm used to x_X
Anyways, quick responses... don't be offended if I didn't address you specifically or anything, I'm kinda in a hurry and won't settle down until this evening.
--I thought the MOBO came with a CPU?
--What's the difference between Intel and AMD MOBOs?
--Water cooling = no. Water + electronics = destruction.
--I thought about a heat sink, but I honestly don't have much of a clue how much heat these desktops generate =/ I know the ventilation is much better than a laptop though *points to laptop dying in summer*
--I don't think I need a quad core. Hell, a dual core isn't twice as good as a single core, and I think quad is probably overkill anyways.
--On the topic of processors... do they actually come separate from the MOBO? o.O
--I don't know if I'm going to wait for 2011's new architecture design from the companies. Computer technology gets updated every few years anyways.
--About the Nvidia vs. Radeon thing... I know the two companies are neck and neck up each other's asses, but I saw a benchmark test chart online. What I basically saw was a bunch of Radeon cards around my price range up on the high end, with Nvidia dotting the place. Nvidia came out on top, but those GPUs are $800+, which is ridiculous for my budget. However, it doesn't tell me anything about quality in the individual departments, which I was hoping you guys could fill me in on.
EDIT: Oh schnapples a sound card, knew I forgot something somewhere >.< Thanks for reminding me Jamie_Kurosawa. I've updated the original post.
Wait for the 2011's, would be my advice. I was going to rush to buy myself a laptop soon too, but after being a bit more informed (thanks to this thread), I slightly changed my mind.
KajitiSouls Wrote:Oh wow that was a lot more advice than I was anticipating! And a lot more technical terms being thrown around than I'm used to x_X
Anyways, quick responses... don't be offended if I didn't address you specifically or anything, I'm kinda in a hurry and won't settle down until this evening.
--I thought the MOBO came with a CPU? No, they're sold separately.
--What's the difference between Intel and AMD MOBOs? Price, socket compatibility. Some motherboards have more features than others, but it comes at a cost.
--Water cooling = no. Water + electronics = destruction. If you're not careful
--I thought about a heat sink, but I honestly don't have much of a clue how much heat these desktops generate =/ I know the ventilation is much better than a laptop though *points to laptop dying in summer* If you're not overclocking, the stock coolers are sufficient, but I know for a fact that the stock AMD cooler is quite loud.
--I don't think I need a quad core. Hell, a dual core isn't twice as good as a single core, and I think quad is probably overkill anyways. Well, I'm not trying to stear you away from a quad, but you can probally fit one in your budget. If the main purpose of this build is gaming, then you might want to fit one for the newer games that allow multicore rendering.
--On the topic of processors... do they actually come separate from the MOBO? o.O Yes
--I don't know if I'm going to wait for 2011's new architecture design from the companies. Computer technology gets updated every few years anyways. Yes, but We're at a point where AMD Is finally updating their CPU architecture for the first time In 7 years. Intel also plans on revising it's nehalem architecture, but the performance isn't significantly better than current generation i7's. Intel is also killing off socket 1156 and 1366 meaning expandability not possible for current generation users.
--About the Nvidia vs. Radeon thing... I know the two companies are neck and neck up each other's asses, but I saw a benchmark test chart online. What I basically saw was a bunch of Radeon cards around my price range up on the high end, with Nvidia dotting the place. Nvidia came out on top, but those GPUs are $800+, which is ridiculous for my budget. However, it doesn't tell me anything about quality in the individual departments, which I was hoping you guys could fill me in on. Well how much do you want to spend on a GPU? At $300, a GTX470 is a better buy than a HD5850(Performance wise). At $200, the 1GB GTX460 is a better buy than 5770 and at 130-150, the 5770 is a better buy than the GTS450. Prices are really really weird right now, but I believe Nvidia is trying to play catch up considering they were late to the market with the Power hungry GF100 fermi core. I mean, It's usually ATI who has the price and performance down while Nvidia normally overprices, but the times have changed and it seems the 58xx series cards are overpriced at the moment. The 58xx series is already a year old, but still performs close with Nvidia's offerings in DX9 and DX10. When it comes to DX11 and tesselation, Nvidia comes on top due to the fact that they emulated 16 cores onto their tessellation engine opposed to ATI's single dedicated tessellator. Compared to the GTX470 and 480, the HD5850 and 5870 consume less power and put out less heat while giving almost identical performance. If heat and power consumption concerns you there's the option of buying a 5850 and or Getting nvidia's brand new GTX460. The GTX460 is built off a newer GF104 architecture and produces less heat and dosen't consume as much power as its bigger brothers. Performance wise, the GTX460 is weaker than a 5850, but performs around or better than the 5850 when it comes to DX11 and tessellation. At $200 this card performs really good and offers amazing price and performance. Be sure to get the 1GB model over the 762mb version due to the 192 bit bus bottle necking GPU performance. Of course, that's if you choose that route.
Quality wise, the Reference ATI 5800 series was/were superior to Nvidia's reference cards due to the Voltera Digital phase controller, but as of now, those cards are like non existent as new and have been replaced with newer non reference models which feature cheap analog phases much like nvidia's reference models. If you want quality, you're going to have to leave that to the PCB partner aka, what brand you decide to buy.
Intel motherboards are about the same as AMD in some aspects, until you buy a pre-built system then it changes.
The cost for a motherboard itself is about equal for both sides but I've had a lot more problems with Intel boards than I have with AMD board in the range of longevity. Usually some Intel motherboards I've had experiences with often use lower grade components and burn out in 2 to 3 years of usage.
I've seen some boards by some good manufacturers tank for Intel machines. ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, and even Intel themselves. I had a ECS motherboard for an old Athlon 1.4 GHz T-Bird that lasted me longer than the CPU did, and back then... ECS was not a good company to buy stuff from, but that board lasted me about 8 years.
Ati 4870 is not old
It performs much better than its rival the 5770 which costs a bit more... I have the 4870 as of now and it runs great no worries. But for bang for buck its Ati and their respin should be out faster then nvidia respin..
FYI GTX 460 470 480 suck a lot more power just like the 280s. The only point when gtx 280s were good was when they were respin into 285s which fixed the power management and boosted performance..
Since the nvidia cards are generally new and Ati had the 5xxx series out for a year already expect a respin for them to out perform these cards..
Watercooling is not a fail but for budget builds like yours it costs 300 dollars alone for the basic stuff so better to put some awesome fans on a nice tower cooler.
Quote:Budget: $750-$1000 or so?
Objective: A gaming computer I can use for a long while. Not a hardcore top-line one; don't need Crysis on high specs.
Skylit... what part of this did you not read?
Quote:They compare and show the difference in performance between hardware. The main purpose of his build is a gaming computer, not a rendering powerhouse. IF that was the case I would have to recommended him the AthlonII x4 620 or AthlonII x4 635 if he happened to be on a budget, which he isn't.
Please, with all due respect just stop. Leave the PC design to a license tech please who listens to the customer and not themselves.
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