Hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles.

Recently, I saw the GM commercial about fuel cell vehicles. For those who don't know what those are, they basically create electricity to fuel the car by using a chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen. No emissions other than a bit of water vapor. I'm personally glad they are going to begin mass producing these someday.

What are your opinions on certain alternative fuel sources such as hybrids, electrics, fuel cells, and biodiesel? I'm interested to see what the rest of the community has to say on this subject.

These should be used as much as possible, and once they are being produced at mass there will be more interest in improving them.

Hm, you should Google for articles related to the compressed air car being developed in Europe.
Uses compressed air to force down the pistons and some in the city get huge mileage, like 100+ MPG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_vehicle

I don't think the biodiesel will work very well. In order to make biodiesel, more people growing corn switch off to biodiesel. The price of corn, and everything based off corn (which is a lot) increase. People in South America who used to grow something else grow corn to take advantage of this price increase. The price of other crops increases. To create more supply, you need more farmland. How do you get that? Chop down the rain forest. Yes, biodiesel is cleaner, but not by much to offset that.

It's all here in this pamphlet: Time Magazine. ()

anyone remeber the hindenburg? Hydrogen still scares the hell out of me but we'll see, I mean gasoline is not that much better.

i saw this program on tv where they tell about this norwegian town that used the leftovers of a slaughtered cow (what's left after they cut off the what we later eat) to make fuel for the town's train and that seemed to me like a really good idea, though it takes alot of space.

anyone remeber the hindenburg? Hydrogen still scares the hell out of me but we'll see, I mean gasoline is not that much better.

You do realise how much hydrogen the Hindenburg had in it, right? Don't forget, petrol is flammable too.

Recently, I saw the GM commercial about fuel cell vehicles. For those who don't know what those are, they basically create electricity to fuel the car by using a chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen. No emissions other than a bit of water vapor. I'm personally glad they are going to begin mass producing these someday.

What are your opinions on certain alternative fuel sources such as hybrids, electrics, fuel cells, and biodiesel? I'm interested to see what the rest of the community has to say on this subject.

These should be used as much as possible, and once they are being produced at mass there will be more interest in improving them.

You both mentioned mass production of these hydrogen cars. I doubt this will happen anytime soon, not within 50 years, seeing as it would cost the consumer far too much.

I like the idea of an electric, or battery car, unfortunately that eliminates the ability to travel more than ~250miles in a day. With the electric powered car would also have to be more electricity at disposal, a solution to that would be further develop geothermal power plants.

I don't think the biodiesel will work very well. In order to make biodiesel, more people growing corn switch off to biodiesel. The price of corn, and everything based off corn (which is a lot) increase. People in South America who used to grow something else grow corn to take advantage of this price increase. The price of other crops increases. To create more supply, you need more farmland. How do you get that? Chop down the rain forest. Yes, biodiesel is cleaner, but not by much to offset that.

It's all here in this pamphlet: Time Magazine. ()

Brazil uses sugarcane, which is 6 times more economical than corn ethanol.

You can't grow it just anywhere, though.

Brazil uses sugarcane, which is 6 times more economical than corn ethanol.

You can't grow it just anywhere, though.

Sugarcane requires a lot of labor, and labor isnt cheap unless you go out of the US. This isnt a possibility to be more cost effective unless you propose 'out-sourcing' to other countries and paying them pennies. I'm personally not opposed to the idea of out-sourcing, but it may cause you to rethink that idea.

@ Wani yeah I figured that but I was just stating an extreme example, just a poor attempt at humor

Sugarcane requires a lot of labor, and labor isnt cheap unless you go out of the US. This isnt a possibility to be more cost effective unless you propose 'out-sourcing' to other countries and paying them pennies. I'm personally not opposed to the idea of out-sourcing, but it may cause you to rethink that idea.

Only mutually beneficial if the country is so destitute that pennies in the pockets of the locals would mean some growth no matter how small. As there is no panacea to this problem so really the best solution is to try a mixture of all solutions, which may be problematic or benfitial, i.e more jobs, more costs etc..

@ Wani yeah I figured that but I was just stating an extreme example, just a poor attempt at humor



Only mutually beneficial if the country is so destitute that pennies in the pockets of the locals would mean some growth no matter how small. As there is no panacea to this problem so really the best solution is to try a mixture of all solutions, which may be problematic or benfitial, i.e more jobs, more costs etc..

Like I said I dont oppose outsourcing, its an intellectual conversation so im addressing both sides. So, what your saying is taking advantage of the disadvantaged country by paying them pennies where any american doing the same labor would make substantially more. We can try a misture of solutions, but ultimately one has to prevail over the others, it wouldnt make much sense for some ppl to drive fuel cell, another bio-fuel, electric, sugar cane, etc.

I like the idea of an electric car for the majority of people seeing as they dont need to travel more than ~250miles in a day, and have an alternative, maybe the traditional internal combustion engine for long trips. The gasoline car would eventually become a thing of the past as people move to electric, and the gasoline only for long trips. If a family cannot afford to have both and wants to take a long roadtrip the gasoline car would be available for rent.

It's whether or not you really believe they are being taken advantage of and like I said earlier it really only makes sense to do such a thing when one country is that drastically poor and undeveloped. In some cases those pennies a day job are just as good as other jobs and far better then crime and prostitution we can all agree on that. I hate the idea of so many options with energy so It really only works with supplying energy for fuel stations and homes (nuclear, geothermal, solar, etc..) The electric car idea is the most sound but it will be a while before society (primarily america, I know for a fact most of my friends make fun of electric cars just cause they don't go that fast and aren't as powerful) will accept them as the norm no matter how stupid the anomositic reason.

It's whether or not you really believe they are being taken advantage of and like I said earlier it really only makes sense to do such a thing when one country is that drastically poor and undeveloped. In some cases those pennies a day job are just as good as other jobs and far better then crime and prostitution we can all agree on that. I hate the idea of so many options with energy so It really only works with supplying energy for fuel stations and homes (nuclear, geothermal, solar, etc..) The electric car idea is the most sound but it will be a while before society (primarily america, I know for a fact most of my friends make fun of electric cars just cause they don't go that fast and aren't as powerful) will accept them as the norm no matter how stupid the anomositic reason.

The thing is ANY alternative auto- Once it is mass-produced and the "main" type of auto will progress by leaps and bounds in mere years.
-
Really this whole Americans need Giant ass Cars thing bugs me-
No one really needs a Hummer-
But more importantly I need a tiny tiny tiny tiny car-
A Smart Car-
And I can't get one here.

It's whether or not you really believe they are being taken advantage of and like I said earlier it really only makes sense to do such a thing when one country is that drastically poor and undeveloped. In some cases those pennies a day job are just as good as other jobs and far better then crime and prostitution we can all agree on that. I hate the idea of so many options with energy so It really only works with supplying energy for fuel stations and homes (nuclear, geothermal, solar, etc..) The electric car idea is the most sound but it will be a while before society (primarily america, I know for a fact most of my friends make fun of electric cars just cause they don't go that fast and aren't as powerful) will accept them as the norm no matter how stupid the anomositic reason.

Take a look at this cars specs and let me know if you need more power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors

You can also check their main page, but i qouted the jist of it below.

Tesla Motors' first production vehicle, the Tesla Roadster, is an all-electric sports car. According to test results from an EPA certified laboratory, the car has a range of 221 miles (356 km). The company and reviewers state that the Tesla Roadster accelerates from 0 to 60 mph (100 km/h) in less than 4 seconds, and has a top speed of 125 mph (201 km/h) (limited for safety). The cost of powering the vehicle is estimated at US$0.02 per mile.

I don't think any of these "alternatives" are that amazing. Sure it can save you money on gas, assuming you can of course, find a fueling station for your specific needs...

Ethanol takes a lot more energy and money to produce than plain gasoline. Using corn makes products related to corn go up as well (i.e. when a farmer uses corn to feed his beef cows/milk cows, the cost of ALL milk related products goes up as well as corn-fed beef). If people find a way to make use of mass producing some random weed in the ground (like dandelions ) then we just might have a solution.

Hybrid vehicles just don't seem very beneficial to me... Right now of course. perhaps in the future when all the people browsing at this very moment turn 50 we will finally have a solution =P

electric cars aren't major improvements either. you charge your car in the garage from a wall socket, but that electricity comes from an energy source that's just as bad as gasoline. So no benefits there... Also bad that you can lose a charge and can't really go anywhere without the risk of failing to recharge.... but i guess you can use your neighbors electric sockets too =P

Hydrogen isn't effective at this moment. It's a little too hard to "mine" that hydrogen.
not to many hydrogen fuel stations also...

As of right now, nothing is more efficient to produce/ use than natural oil from the ground. I'm all for new technology and stuff to eliminate the dependence on the oil, but the invention of a new substance that is both efficient to make as well as good for the enviornment is quite hard.

Convert all of our electricity to solar, then you can recharge your car all you want.

Any solution must take time. It's like Vista. Less people in the beginning use it, so programmers don't make software designed or even compatible with it, which becomes a downside causing less people to want to get it. Same with alternative energy basically, except instead of compatible software it's the technological advancements to produce the stuff more economically and make them available and etc.

Take a look at this cars specs and let me know if you need more power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors

You can also check their main page, but i qouted the jist of it below.

reminds me of the hyabusa smart car (worlds fastest smart car or something like that), hell as long as a car can go 20 over the highest posted speed limit which is like 90 mostly its good and thats just for passing cars on the highway but I did kind of lol at the 0-60 in 4 sounds like that would kill the battery but eh I'd have to look into it

I like the idea of an electric, or battery car, unfortunately that eliminates the ability to travel more than ~250miles in a day. With the electric powered car would also have to be more electricity at disposal, a solution to that would be further develop geothermal power plants.

The easy solution is to develop quick change universal battery modules, kinda like the way you can plug pretty much any monitor into a computer.

Battery stations along the road would charge these up, and you'd just pull in, switch it out, give them your depleted one, pay a bit (for the electricity) and drive off.

There's no issue of energy availability, the night-time excess energy production of current plants in America is enough to power a fleet of approximately 70 million cars. It's just a matter of when you plug them in to charge - if they're in off-peak hours, it's easily within capacity.


Electricity from a power plant is by no means "just as bad as" the energy being produced by internal combustion engines. Most power plants are capable of 3-5 times the fuel efficiency of an IC engine (I believe the Prius is on the low end of this due to hybrid nature - it doesn't have to run the engine when it would be less efficient to do so), and far easier to regulate. Would you rather have 5 smokestacks to check for CO2, or 500,000 car exhausts? The fuel itself being burned is also less of an issue with power plants - anything from garbage to coal to nuclear fissiles can be converted into usable electricity, and swapping out a coal plant for a nuclear power plant is again easier than changing 500,000 cars.



I'd put ethanol right off the table, it's simply not viable without props and hasn't even been shown to produce more net energy than it costs to harvest. Sugar cane and other crops are much better, as well as some groups of plankton, but it's still not a great solution because then fuel crops replace food crops, and food prices rise.

I'd put ethanol right off the table, it's simply not viable without props and hasn't even been shown to produce more net energy than it costs to harvest. Sugar cane and other crops are much better, as well as some groups of plankton, but it's still not a great solution because then fuel crops replace food crops, and food prices rise.

I wouldn't leave ethanol out entirely, if limited to commercial use and means of long distance traveling couldn't that make bio-fuels a little more practicle?