Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest)

[video=youtube;jxfkDUm5oP0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jxfkDUm5oP0[/video]

There's the DB for you.

I'm not looking for something like this, I'd just do it on my own DB if I was.
I'm looking to see if a DB can theoretically out damage a phantom 1v1 rapidfire + FA vs phantom blow + MI.

But thanks.

Reposting here for clarity edit:

Danny, or Joe, assuming a phantom and DB hit max 100% of the time, 700k MI from DB and 1m from phantoms FA, which would be stronger?
Assume fastest weapons, buffs besides booster don't matter. I'm not looking for raw %ages, I'm pretty much trying to incorporate damage/min into this.

From what I got if DB's do 21.39 attacks/sec that's 10.7m from phantom blow + 7.49m from MI, putting DB's at 18.19.
For phantom it'd be a straight up 8.76 x 2 (FA) = 17.52m/sec. Assume FA is 100% due to 100% crit.

Would dual blades come out on top, speed/hit based?
Didn't bother to even add venom for the DB.

21.39 attacks.. what
1000/630ms = 1.587 Phantom Blow casts.
1.587*6*999999 = 9523800
1.587*6*699999 = 6666657
9523800+6666657 = 16.19m damage a second.

1000/120ms = 8.333 casts
8.333*2 = 16.666m a second.

21.39 attacks.. what
1000/630ms = 1.587 Phantom Blow casts.
1.587*6*999999 = 9523800
1.587*6*699999 = 6666657
9523800+6666657 = 16.19m damage a second.

1000/120ms = 8.333 casts
8.333*2 = 16.666m a second.

Phantom Blow is 810ms base, 600ms Fast (2). It does 21.39 hits per second because I don't weigh Mirror Image differently, and I add Fatal Venom and buffs.

Ultimate Drive is 180ms. Also just noticed my tables weren't adding the hit from Noir Carte. Fixed. If you had 100% crit, it would be 16.6mil/s. Tables use Tempest of Card which is lower hits per second but higher %/s.

Phantom Blow is 810ms base, 600ms Fast (2). It does 21.39 hits per second because I don't weigh Mirror Image differently, and I add Fatal Venom and buffs.

Ultimate Drive is 180ms. Also just noticed my tables weren't adding the hit from Noir Carte. Fixed. If you had 100% crit, it would be 16.6mil/s. Tables use Tempest of Card which is lower hits per second but higher %/s.

It always rounds up?

It always rounds up?

WELL NEVERMIND THEN.

Normally I do the arguing, but I'm guessing my math was right and DB's do out dps/m phantoms if funded properly.
Well ok then, thanks.

If you feel like directly answering the question, in terms of raw max damage DPS/m who is better based on attack speed alone (seeing as both it max in this scenario).

Normally I do the arguing, but I'm guessing my math was right and DB's do out dps/m phantoms if funded properly.
Well ok then, thanks.

If you feel like directly answering the question, in terms of raw max damage DPS/m who is better based on attack speed alone (seeing as both it max in this scenario).

It ought to be Dual Blade due to Fatal Venom. With max crit rate, Ultimate Drive and Rapid Fire (both have the same hits/s) are better than Phantom Blow alone, but Fatal Venom makes DBs pull ahead. With ME and UD, no ToC, I'm getting 17.6/s with buffs and Judgement, so that shouldn't be enough to catch up, especially if you consider the practicality of using ME.

It ought to be Dual Blade due to Fatal Venom. With max crit rate, Ultimate Drive and Rapid Fire (both have the same hits/s) are better than Phantom Blow alone, but Fatal Venom makes DBs pull ahead. With ME and UD, no ToC, I'm getting 17.6/s with buffs and Judgement, so that shouldn't be enough to catch up, especially if you consider the practicality of using ME.

Thanks for the confirmation.
Just a hit/min game once everyone hits max.

Glad DB's come out on top, but will still be switching over to phantom regardless.

The margin isn't that big, and the fact that Phantom can hit multiple targets with the best mobility means it wins.

The margin isn't that big, and the fact that Phantom can hit multiple targets with the best mobility means it wins.

Any ranged class would win, I'm just sort of happy DB's come out on top in theoretical damage.
That's all it is.

In-game control is completely different, which is why phantom will be bandwagoned the pineapple out of.

Any ranged class would win, I'm just sort of happy DB's come out on top in theoretical damage.
That's all it is.

Shadowers still win.

1000ms/750ms = 1.333 attacks * 15 hits = 20m a second.

for ME.

1000ms/750ms = 1.333 attacks * 15 hits = 20m a second.

for ME.

for one second.
Inconsistant.

Shadowers still win.

Don't kid yourself. Assassination points are required, same situation as ME.

DBZRKINGZ4EVER.

Your argument is retardedly flawed. You also do realise Joe noticed his mistake right? It's 630ms not 600ms because delays always round up not down. Fatal Venom is the only reason why Dual Bladers might be on top but Shadowers will still end up faster than both.

"For one second" what is that supposed to even mean?

Don't kid yourself. Assassination points are required, same situation as ME.
DBZRKINGZ4EVER.

The discussion was on hits/second.
With Carnival Edge and Meso Explosion we have more hits/second than you. No Assassination points required.
Also Assassination points are taking into consideration in Joe's tables.

Fatal Venom is the only reason why Dual Bladers might be on top but Shadowers will still end up faster than both.

Shadowers also have Fatal Venom so why would Dual Bladers's Fatal Venom affect over Shadowers at all?

Shadowers also have Fatal Venom so why would Dual Bladers's Fatal Venom affect over Shadowers at all?

...?
"Fatal Venom is the only reason why Dual Bladers might be on top [of Phantoms] but Shadowers will still end up faster than both."

The discussion was on hits/second.
With Carnival Edge and Meso Explosion we have more hits/second than you. No Assassination points required.
Also Assassination points are taking into consideration in Joe's tables.



Shadowers also have Fatal Venom so why would Dual Bladers's Fatal Venom affect over Shadowers at all?

I actually mentioned more specifically to minutes then seconds, but whatever.
If you want to get that literal, I have yet to even see a shadower hit 1m w/ a single line of meso explosion.
But, if ME is calculated by range, then of course it's possible. I'm guessing it is.

But sure, in theory if a shadower did that, congratulations. Only a portion of my question was directed towards theory if you read it.

"For one second" what is that supposed to even mean?

Uh, for a second? It means for one second, now you know.
I already differentiated between the theoretical and realistic approaches to damage calculations when stating I'd pick a phantom over a DB. I'm not going to play a class based on some chart, I was just using it as confirmation to what I thought towards the two classes.

You can apply both similarly to phantoms and db's as they spam one skill.
IF edge carnival were spammed, 100% loss compared to the two, but no, you need to switch between ME and carnival.

I HIGHLY DOUBT anyone can switch without a delay through the the course of a boss battle.
If they can, nice accomplishment.

 Shocking revelation

I'll make this as clear.
There is no way a shadower switching from edge carnival to ME and back can out damage a dual blade, phantom, mercedes, corsair, or any single skill spamming class.

 Shocking revelation part 2!

My discussion wasn't even related to shadowers until some moron brought it up.

That's fine, shadowers can have there theoretical highest damage o_O What do I care?
You all know application is harder then writing down and calculating this pomegranate.

I asked about dual blades and phantoms. Congratulations to the theoretical shadower I guess?
Could care less that his tables were incorrect. In the end DB's still came out on top over phantoms, it doesn't even matter why or how.

Also, not sure why you seem to think that it takes an eternity to switch skills.

Hold down EC for just shy of 3 minutes, release, hold down ME for however long it takes to explode all the mesos. Not that complicated.

Uh, for a second? It means for one second, now you know.
I already differentiated between the theoretical and realistic approaches to damage calculations when stating I'd pick a phantom over a DB. I'm not going to play a class based on some chart, I was just using it as confirmation to what I thought towards the two classes.

You can apply both similarly to phantoms and db's as they spam one skill.
IF edge carnival were spammed, 100% loss compared to the two, but no, you need to switch between ME and carnival.

I HIGHLY DOUBT anyone can switch without a delay through the the course of a boss battle.
If they can, nice accomplishment.

 Shocking revelation

I'll make this as clear.
There is no way a shadower switching from edge carnival to ME and back can out damage a dual blade, phantom, mercedes, corsair, or any single skill spamming class.

 Shocking revelation part 2!

My discussion wasn't even related to shadowers until some moron brought it up.

That's fine, shadowers can have there theoretical highest damage o_O What do I care?
You all know application is harder then writing down and calculating this pomegranate.

I asked about dual blades and phantoms. Congratulations to the theoretical shadower I guess?
Could care less that his tables were incorrect. In the end DB's still came out on top, it doesn't even matter why or how.

Boy am I glad you even argue about things you're ignorant about. Not that it's any surprise since most of the things you type is full of shit to begin with. Most classes, Shadowers included, have no delay upon switching skills. Not sure why you think there's a delay associated with most skills when switching. Protip: If there is a delay associated with switching skills it'd be listed under the extractions. But I guess you'll do anything to whine like a baby if your supposed top class of dual bladers end up losing.

Boy am I glad you even argue about things you're ignorant about. Not that it's any surprise since most of the things you type is full of shit to begin with. Most classes, Shadowers included, have no delay upon switching skills. Not sure why you think there's a delay associated with most skills when switching. Protip: If there is a delay associated with switching skills it'd be listed under the extractions. But I guess you'll do anything to whine like a baby if your supposed top class of dual bladers end up losing.

So, you have no delay fingers.
I'm glad, because DB's don't need them when holding down phantom blow as compared to two skills.
Or can you macro meso explosion now? (Hi, this is sarcasm).

Of course skill switching has no delay. I already said I was wrong in theory, do you want some sort of prize?
Not everything is related to in-game factors. Here comes an argument involving a tornado hitting your house, knocking out your power, as well as destroying your laptop. K I'm ready.

I'm so glad you take everything I say with a grain of salt. (Hi, this is also sarcasm)
I'll be pointing every little detail of every little thing I type out to you in future spats you decide to advocate for, since it seems you can't apply things logically to one another.
Because I'm sure your character magically switches between skills itself, correct? (Sarcasm)

Also, again, for the 1 millionth time, I already stated most classes, ESPECIALLY PHANTOMS (even though the theoretical value is discouraging, slightly), would come out over dual blades. Calm down.