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Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest)
inemnitable Wrote:I'm not sure I understand this. When I've seen Fatal Venom stack in videos, it literally pops 3 numbers every second. Is there something preventing this from reaching 3*999999? As I understand it, the whole point of calculating hits/s is to find out how much damage a class could do while hitting the damage cap every time.
It seems I was mistaken on how Fatal Venom stacks. The whole point of calculating hits per second is to find out how much damage these particular combinations would do if they hit damage cap on every attack. I haven't tried to optimize hits per second for any character, not have I ever claimed to.

inemnitable Wrote:Also when you calculate Shadowers' hits/s for 1v1, are you using only Edge Carnival or only Edge Carnival + Meso Explosion (when you're not buffing)? Your DB numbers are higher than the ones I'm getting and your Shadower numbers are lower. The DB thing could be due to my disregarding Fatal Venom, but it doesn't make sense that you include Fatal Venom for Shadowers and still get significantly lower hits/s.

All attacks use Boomerang Step, and then Edge Carnival/Muspelheim, with Assassinate if listed, and with Meso Explosion at a set timeframe. That's why hits per second is significantly lower than pure Edge Carnival which is around 20.5hits/s + 3hits/s from Fatal Venom.

It's really difficult to understand how my numbers are different than your numbers and could be wrong if you don't tell me what your numbers are though. You might want to consider how that would impact the validity of any claim you are making before you try to make it.

The optimal Phantom Blow hits per second is 20 + 3.

Shadower:
 Muspelheim
 Edge Carnival
 With Sharp Eyes

Night Lord:
 Spoiler
 With Sharp Eyes

Blade Master:
 Spoiler
 With Sharp Eyes
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JoeTang Wrote:I haven't tried to optimize hits per second for any character, not have I ever claimed to.
Gotcha. That might be useful to do sometime.
JoeTang Wrote:All attacks use Boomerang Step, and then Edge Carnival/Muspelheim, with Assassinate if listed, and with Meso Explosion at a set timeframe. That's why hits per second is significantly lower than pure Edge Carnival which is around 20.5hits/s + 3hits/s from Fatal Venom.

It's really difficult to understand how my numbers are different than your numbers and could be wrong if you don't tell me what your numbers are though. You might want to consider how that would impact the validity of any claim you are making before you try to make it.

The optimal Phantom Blow hits per second is 20 + 3.

Ah, I understand. We were basically calculating different things. Your results look right for literal hits per second. I was counting shadow partner/mirror image hits as .7 of a hit, since they can only hit a maximum of 699999, so I was getting 17 damage cap hits per second for Phantom Blow. I got 16.5385 damage cap hits per second for Carnival Edge alone, or 18.0435 for Carnival Edge + Meso Explosion.
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I think that you can hit 1m with SP o.O
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Joe, did you assume Greed's effect on Meso Explosion was additive or multiplicative?
I assume you used additive since that would be the right way to do it but Locked apparently believed it was multiplicative so I just want to make sure you didn't think the same way.

Here is a copy pasta of the proof I already posted on Basil:

My range in this trial is 13586-19408. I didn't take a SS of my range at the time I tried this.
Meso Explosion is 180%, Greed is +60%.
If it's additive Meso Explosion would be 240%.
If it's multiplicative Meso Explosion would be 288%.
The damage range from additive is: 32,606.4-46,579.2 per explosion
The damage range for multiplicative is: 39,127.7-55,895.0 per explosion
I have 36.5% PDR Ignore, 15% from nebulite, 15% from Monster Book and 6.5% from Ambition.
Snails have 10% PDR and after factoring my PDR Ignore it results in: 6.35% Effective PDR.
After considering PDR and rounding the new possible damage ranges are:
Additive: 30,536-43,621
Multiplicative: 36,643-52,346
 Spoiler
 Spoiler
As you can see in the first picture I was able to hit 31,847 and 33,924 both of which are both fairly below the lowest possible damage if Greed was multiplicative.
In the second picture I was able to hit 34,470 which is again below the lowest possible damage if Greed was multiplicative.
There was no damage done that was below 30,536.
These screenshots also serve as proof that Meso Explosion does in-fact hit critical damage but it doesn't light up red as with normal attacks.
This is obvious from the hit where my Meso Explosion did almost 62k even though that's outside both range zones.
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nRxUs Wrote:-snipety snip-

While somewhat on the topic, do you/does anyone know if Meso Explosion criticals are affected by +critical hit% rate, or +min/max% critical damage? I figured they would, but seeing as how they don't show up as critical numbers I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they're not.
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Mazz Wrote:While somewhat on the topic, do you/does anyone know if Meso Explosion criticals are affected by +critical hit% rate, or +min/max% critical damage? I figured they would, but seeing as how they don't show up as critical numbers I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they're not.

I see no reason as to why it wouldn't. The critical hits not having the critical effect should simply be a graphic thing and that's it.
Although I have no concrete proof I did notice more hits being high numbers with Meso Explosion when my decent SE was on than when it isn't, then again the plural of anecdote isn't data so it really isn't much of a proof.
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I've been using multiplicative. I'll adjust this soon.

Shadower:
 Muspelheim
 Edge Carnival
 With Sharp Eyes
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nRxUs Wrote:I see no reason as to why it wouldn't. The critical hits not having the critical effect should simply be a graphic thing and that's it.
Although I have no concrete proof I did notice more hits being high numbers with Meso Explosion when my decent SE was on than when it isn't, then again the plural of anecdote isn't data so it really isn't much of a proof.

The way criticals seem to work is really frustrating for testing, if you hit a critical in say the first line of Edge Carnival, the 3rd, 5th and so on will always crit with the same exact damage. ~7:16 for a demonstration, I randomly jumped to this but I'm sure there are more. It looks like ME follows the same pattern, at least according to this video anyway.
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Mazz Wrote:The way criticals seem to work is really frustrating for testing, if you hit a critical in say the first line of Edge Carnival, the 3rd, 5th and so on will always crit with the same exact damage. ~7:16 for a demonstration, I randomly jumped to this but I'm sure there are more. It looks like ME follows the same pattern, at least according to this video anyway.

I agree, it is really annoying. Although it explains the second picture I put up there where two of my criticals where the exact same damage. I was a bit intrigued by the odds of two pairs of attacks being the exact same. Still though without Sharp Eyes on I would barely see any of those high numbers.
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Made an update to Phantoms. Missed the change to Tempest of Cards where damage was increased to 400% and mobs was decreased to 8. Small increase to 2~8. Decrease for 9 & 10 since ToC can't hit those anymore. 11 & 12 removed.
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An update correcting Combo Attack's damage to be additive with criticals.
Phantom:
 Rapid Fire/Twilight
 Twilight + Pickpocket + Meso Explosion
 Ultimate Drive
 Ultimate Drive + Pickpocket + Meso Explosion
 With SE
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Just curious: For the "Rapid Fire / Twilight" spoilers, what 4th job skill is Phantom using for the 2+ target calculations? I believe you said you were using Phatom Charge -> Twilight as the spamming combo, so RF is useless.

I assume self-cast SE would be the biggest boost (~17-18%), and something like Pirate Style (+10% damage) when either partied with someone with SE or using Decent SE.
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ElderTree Wrote:Just curious: For the "Rapid Fire / Twilight" spoilers, what 4th job skill is Phantom using for the 2+ target calculations? I believe you said you were using Phatom Charge -> Twilight as the spamming combo, so RF is useless.

I assume self-cast SE would be the biggest boost (~17-18%), and something like Pirate Style (+10% damage) when either partied with someone with SE or using Decent SE.

It currently doesn't use anything. SE would be the biggest boost, but I have a table for that already. You could just multiply the damage by 1.1x for Pirate Style's rough amount, I believe.
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Viperisation would probably be better than pirate style since it's more damage and i don't think the 30% status/ele resistance is passive.
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JoeTang Wrote:It currently doesn't use anything. SE would be the biggest boost, but I have a table for that already. You could just multiply the damage by 1.1x for Pirate Style's rough amount, I believe.

Good to know, thanks! I was mainly just double checking that it did not already include a certain buff.

Takebacker Wrote:Viperisation would probably be better than pirate style since it's more damage and i don't think the 30% status/ele resistance is passive.

From the skill tables, it looks like everything but the +15% atk on Vipirsition is passive. As far as I can tell, everything about Pirate Style is active since it doesn't contain the phrase "Passive Effect -- " anywhere, but I don't have any first (or second) hand knowledge.

Either way, thanks for pointing it out since these tables are strictly DPS and don't care about silly things like ele/status resistance or stance -- and +15% Vipersition > +10% Pirate Style.
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Stance is meaningless to a Phantom anyways since they cannot be hit during Twilight unless it's a guaranteed hit attack.
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JoeTang Wrote:Stance is meaningless to a Phantom anyways since they cannot be hit during Twilight unless it's a guaranteed hit attack.

Interesting. Are Phantom Charge & Twilight the only Phantom skills with iFrames, or are there others? (I'm assuming PC has it since it's a rush move.)
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They don't have 100% iframes but they have some iframes. Either that or the latency fucked that up.
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Danny, or Joe, assuming a phantom and DB hit max 100% of the time, 700k MI from DB and 1m from phantoms FA, which would be stronger?
Assume fastest weapons, buffs besides booster don't matter. I'm not looking for raw %ages, I'm pretty much trying to incorporate damage/min into this.

From what I got if DB's do 21.39 attacks/sec that's 10.7m from phantom blow + 7.49m from MI, putting DB's at 18.19.
For phantom it'd be a straight up 8.76 x 2 (FA) = 17.52m/sec. Assume FA is 100% due to 100% crit.

Would dual blades come out on top, speed/hit based?
Didn't bother to even add venom for the DB.

Probably messed up somewhere.
I'm talking theory here, cause I'm 100% sure a ranged phantom would handle bosses better than a DB as well.
Capping is so much easier on phantoms as well (Until DB revamp, then extremely easy), but that's not really a problem.
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DamageCalc Wrote:Danny, or Joe, assuming a phantom and DB hit max 100% of the time, 700k MI from DB and 1m from phantoms FA, which would be stronger?
Assume fastest weapons, buffs besides booster don't matter. I'm not looking for raw %ages, I'm pretty much trying to incorporate damage/min into this.

From what I got if DB's do 21.39 attacks/sec that's 10.7m from phantom blow + 7.49m from MI, putting DB's at 18.19.
For phantom it'd be a straight up 8.76 x 2 (FA) = 17.52m/sec. Assume FA is 100% due to 100% crit.

Would dual blades come out on top, speed/hit based?
Didn't bother to even add venom for the DB.

Probably messed up somewhere.
I'm talking theory here, cause I'm 100% sure a ranged phantom would handle bosses better than a DB as well.
Capping is so much easier on phantoms as well (Until DB revamp, then extremely easy), but that's not really a problem.

[video=youtube;jxfkDUm5oP0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jxfkDUm5oP0[/video]

There's the DB for you.
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