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Raul Wrote:Just not very good and it has to be sold late-game. Executioner's Calling or a Bloodrazor and a Vamp Scepter get the job done just as well, and the vamp scepter can be built into a Bloodthirster. Because you wouldn't have to sell the Executioner's Calling? Bloodrazor is a bad item. Might as well just go for a Wriggle's since it has all (armor, lifesteal, ward, instanuke creep, damage) that the other three lack.
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For the record: I sometimes build Wriggles on Tristana, especially if I'm starting to fall behind during the lane phase. Helps me to get back into the game with sustain, physical damage mitigation, and farming, all in a single item. (However, building Wriggles on Trist is situational. If I'm doing really well, I usually forego Wriggles and just rush an IE, and build a Vamp Scepter and Zeal to round things off early on)
Overall point: Using Wriggles as a laner is legitimate. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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Raul Wrote:Just not very good and it has to be sold late-game. Executioner's Calling or a Bloodrazor and a Vamp Scepter get the job done just as well, and the vamp scepter can be built into a Bloodthirster. Wriggles, like the Doran items, are worth the gold even if you have to sell them later. There's nothing wrong with having to sell it late-game and replacing it with a Bloodthirster or something.
Match-ups aside, Wriggles is a great item to get early. The sustain helps out a lot of champs who really need it at top. It also helps out champs that are slow at clearing creep, like Teemo and Wukong. I think it's EU that did some fun stuff like going 2 Doran's Blade → Wriggles AD carries? I know M5 did it at Kiev.
Executioner's Calling is a situational item. Bloodrazor is a very situational item. Not all champs do great with a rushed Bloodthirster, but it depends on how well you're doing/what your team needs.
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Jamesie Wrote:Because you wouldn't have to sell the Executioner's Calling? Bloodrazor is a bad item. Might as well just go for a Wriggle's since it has all (armor, lifesteal, ward, instanuke creep, damage) that the other three lack.
Bloodrazor is typically regarded as gold-inefficient, and it is also one of the most expensive items, being more than twice as expensive as Wriggle's. However it sees application as both a good way of killing epic jungle mobs and DPSing champions.
For comparison, Wriggle's Lantern does an average of 0.20 * 425 magic damage per attack, or 85. To match that damage with Bloodrazor, the target must have at least 2125 max HP. Many high value jungle targets and some tanky champions exceed that number. Not to mention Wriggle's passive doesn't actually work on champions.
WillDaSnail Wrote:For the record: I sometimes build Wriggles on Tristana, especially if I'm starting to fall behind during the lane phase. Helps me to get back into the game with sustain, physical damage mitigation, and farming, all in a single item. (However, building Wriggles on Trist is situational. If I'm doing really well, I usually forego Wriggles and just rush an IE, and build a Vamp Scepter and Zeal to round things off early on)
Overall point: Using Wriggles as a laner is legitimate. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I used to get Wriggle's a lot on Kog'Maw, because whenever I went to harass someone, I would pull minion aggro, and I would end up with just as much HP as the other dude I was harassing. That was dumb imo. So I got what I thought to be the ultimate sustain option for those without a healer support, plus free wards to make your lane virtually ungankable.
Then there were a lot of changes made. Minions are not as OP anymore (damage nerfed), lifesteal was nerfed, and more aggressive options were made available with the masteries being changed, specifically the 21 offense mastery. I'm not about to throw out Wriggle's as an option for AD carries, but I don't think it really trumps the Zerk + Double Doran's + BF Sword deal in competent settings.
The main problem with rushing Wriggle's first is that you lack damage when it comes to versing champions. For a 1600 gold item, it only gives you 23 AD. A Long Sword costs 415 gold and gives you 10 AD. A BF Sword costs 1650 gold and gives you 45 AD. That's quite a difference.
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Early game was nice; I picked up an early kill vs Katarina, though Twitch was there ready to try to kill me. I had Vision Wards up throughout the laning phase, and the only time Twitch could get me was when I was distracted when fighting Katarina (woops). I had positioning issues close to end of game, and we lost the last 2 teamfights. However, those losses were insured due to us pushing all 3 inhibs down and pushing our creeps in.
Gotta love Cass's DPS capabilities + her ult. Its awesome
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I buy Wiggle's when my support is too stupid to buy wards.
Saves me a lot of grief.
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Corn Wrote:I buy Wiggle's when my support is too stupid to buy wards.
Saves me a lot of grief.
Or you could just buy 1-2 wards each time you back and still build normal ranged AD items. *shrug*
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MasPan Wrote:Or you could just buy 1-2 wards each time you back and still build normal ranged AD items. *shrug*
More cost efficient in the long run anyways, and since most of the time if my support is too stupid to buy wards we usually are losing the lane, which is also good to buy a Wiggle's.
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Graves and Trundle were good, Trundle ganked well so it was easy to get Graves rolling. Cass took two blues and Trundle started AFK farming jungle, which is when we started losing. Cass and Trundle squabbled for about 70% of the game, Graves tried to calm them down. Me, Mundo, and Trundle sneaked a Baron and won the game in about five minutes from there.
JESUS WAS THAT SO DIFFICULT
also Trundle said "stayed because of Taric" because I was keeping a timer on the enemy buffs, lol.
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![[Image: winning2_2.png]](http://omg.wthax.org/winning2_2.png)
Backdoor Yi and backdoor Blitzcrank too stronk. We almost lost because Blitzcrank kept backdooring. We only won because Yi got to their Nexus during a small fight we had in their jungle. It was funny because they kept telling us to report Blitzcrank. I giggled and refrained from reporting because he was doing a solid job.
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[COLOR="#0000FF"]First time Voli. Got 2 kills early game right when it started. :3
As for the shoes, was just curious how high attack speed went with passive and shoes. I was thinking of going on-hit when I got fed, but didn't.
![[Image: ff7c1504e8b52c9aec9ba719f7ee9df3.png?1337725881]](http://gyazo.com/ff7c1504e8b52c9aec9ba719f7ee9df3.png?1337725881) [/COLOR]
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I know that, I meant I wanted to see how high voli went with shoes and his passive. I got to the cap one time as ww in my noob days.
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[IMGSPOILER]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x112/Rayquaza2233/smogsquadcomeback.png[/IMGSPOILER]
We were losing the entire game (look at CS). Amumu started at our red for some reason, eventually picked up on Shyvana's invades and killed her, I missed a flash Cait ult block, I sidestepped a grab that got Graves killed again. We Baroned for no apparent reason and for no apparent reason the enemy didn't stop us until it was too late. We slowly started winning teamfights, we aced them at the end (Riven triple and Graves double, lol) and pushed mid for the turnaround victory.
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[IMGSPOILER]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x112/Rayquaza2233/smogsquadcomeback.png[/IMGSPOILER]
We were losing the entire game (look at CS). Amumu started at our red for some reason, eventually picked up on Shyvana's invades and killed her, I missed a flash Cait ult block, I sidestepped a grab that got Graves killed again. We Baroned for no apparent reason and for no apparent reason the enemy didn't stop us until it was too late. We slowly started winning teamfights, we aced them at the end (Riven triple and Graves double, lol) and pushed mid for the turnaround victory.
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[spoiler=I don't play Amumu often. But when I do, things get real hairy for the opposing team] ![[Image: LoL253-1.png]](http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s105/WillDaSnail/LoL253-1.png) [/spoiler]
End result of me playing with my friend + my friend's friends.
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This jax has 1k ping all game. How he is able to play through is beyond me.
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[COLOR="#cc8899"]Tryndamere rage too stronk. Nonstop bitching the entire game by both him and Riven, with Trynd threatening to feed and Riven whining about lack of ganks and stealing buffs (Trynd was a smiteless jungler).
They had first two Barons and were rolling us pretty hard, but Trynd's attempt to feed pulled Caitlin to mid to try to kill him and we won a 4v4 bot. Trynd killed Caitlyn, we got an inhib and some towers, and we started winning from there. We got all of their inhibs down after another teamfight or two, took Baron, and then won the game. For what it's worth, I was outlaning Swain hard. Very early game his burst was a bit scary but he sort of fell off since he went for sustain/utility vice damage.
![[Image: 35l7l9h.jpg]](http://oi46.tinypic.com/35l7l9h.jpg) [/COLOR]
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Chaz Wrote:This jax has 1k ping all game. How he is able to play through is beyond me. And he still went 8 and 0. What...... I want his secret.
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Literally just carried so hard. Mid and bot lost hard and I just stomped the other team while my teammates picked themselves up.
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