Ask a Pirate Thread

Don't bother HP washing. By the time you're 15x+, you'll have plenty of HP.

The point of HP washing is so you'll have HP without having to level up to absurd heights.

The point of HP washing is so you'll have HP without having to level up to absurd heights.

Go to a HT run and tell me what all the 13x and below people do before responding back to me.

HP washing not only for HT, but for early Newtie bottoming and other stuff.

Regardless, you'll have plenty when the time comes.

Okay think about this:
Archers gain an average of 22 HP and 15 MP per level. That's 1 washable point of MP per level plus an additional one per 10 INT you have. Assuming you have only 10 INT (aka not a hardcore/preplanned washer) that means you can wash once for every 6 levels you've earned (a wash takes out 12 MP). Each time gets you another 18 HP, meaning such an archer would have a net gain of 25 HP and 14 MP per level on average.

A gunslinger that does not wash at all gains 24 HP and 19 MP per level.

I'm also thinking that they get higher bonuses upon advancing, so that's some static amount of extra HP as well.

Go to a HT run and tell me what all the 13x and below people do before responding back to me.

Oh fucking pomegranate, you're right. HT is the only thing that will ever do enough damage to kill you, so you should be concentrating all your HP Washing for this sole purpose! pineapple, I am so stupid, why didn't I realise this before making my idiotic point? I ought to go kill myself.

No point in newting, skelegoning, bossing at low levels if you do pomegranate damage. Guess you forgot about that.

"Oh yay, I can survive bottom of newties at 7x"

"How's the training"

"Well, I do double digit damage and miss and my exp rate sucks to hell, but hey at least I'm here as early as possible!"

Exaggeration but you get the point.

Exaggeration

screws up your point.

I don't think he understands that they'd still get easily 2HKO'd in 4th Job.

I don't think he's played an archer enough to realize that we care more about survivability than damage most of the time.

A gunslinger that does not wash at all gains 24 HP and 19 MP per level.

Wait, what? Pirates have a base 22-26 HP and 18-20 MP gain per level? Both stats are higher than archers and thieves, and by quite a lot. Tell me how that's fair.

 Spoiler

Fine, you want evidence?]

From the 151 Corsair vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thm6szyj3wE you can see he has 6,088 HP

From the 130 Corsair vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfH947mVAg he has 5591 HP. It's the same guy.

Using an average, that's 23.67 HP/level up which compares to your own HP/level gain up above.

Maybe that person HP washed. Assuming the archer/thief formula, he'll need 12 int to wash. To show my point further, lets say he washed 1k hp at only 20 HP each which is less than a HP/level up which equates to 50 times. This means at level 130, he will have 4591 HP.

Here's a level 131 NL's HP.



On average, ranged characters reach 3k hp roughly at 120 or a little under 3k. at 20~ hp/level, this person washed maybe a few times but barely.

Here is a level 129 NL



That's almost 5k HP which is massivley HP washing most likely from level 1. That still makes it 500~ more HP than a corsair who has an adjusted HP value from the assumption that Corsair washed 1k hp. If that HP value is an actual base and unwashed then my point is stronger.

Now then, assuming the adjusted HP value, at level 70 the outlaw will have roughly 3144~ HP using a 24 HP/Level scale and using the HP values of the Corsair in the vids subtracting 1k HP. A nest golem will almost never hit 3k, unless you practically have 0 def gears on. Max I ever see it hit ranged characters is 2.7~2.8, maybe even 2.9k. But that adjusted HP value is 3.1k which gives a nice buffer of 200+ hp.

Now from this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKMZs1sYHXU The gunslinger hits roughly 1.5~3k each hit and this is level 88.

From this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMkgORdxLhU& he hits 1k~1.5k per shot with level 1 triple fire. I'll assume the one in the level 88 vid is maxed and he has better equips with the following range at level 88



Those are prolly avg equips for a gunslinger for that level. From skill tables, giving the level 70 max triple fire and those equips, he'll prolly be hitting in the range of 2.2~3.5k each. But that's on snails with 0 def. Newties and nest golems have 750 and 900 def which drops your damage by like 300~500+ per shot easily. I can go test my sins damage at snails and newties for actual fullproof evidence if you're gonna be that picky about it but I know for a fact it's significantly less that makes a difference.

Back to the main point of the entire thing, sure with that adjusted hp value of of 3.1k at level 70, you can go to bottom of newties. But you risk dying a lot, take like 6~10 hits to kill it without any summons and you'll probably get KSed in a popular server. Is it worth it? No. I'd rather much do this training http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1ukljJuUl2U& as it's safer and gets a pretty high exp rate.

The orignal orignal main point though was about HP washing. It's not needed at all for pirates. No one cares if you have 30k hp if your damage is crap. HT runners usually take 15x~16x+ ranged [except se mules] because that's when they're damage is efficient + hp is usually not an issue anymore for washers or ones with average hp gear. For training, I'd rather get someone killing newties/skelegons in under 4 hits opposed to someone who takes twice as many. If you're soloing, sure you may get high exp values per monster, but in the usual case your exp rate takes a hit. In the end it's about exp rate, not how much exp a monster gives.

Bottom pineappleing line: They don't need HP washing, end of story.

I can give more unexaggerated support for my arguments if I must. Thought it'd be quite obvious but some people like to not understand a concept and find ways to make their own points better without realizing that they may be in agreeance with the person.

-------------

Edit:

I don't think he understands that they'd still get easily 2HKO'd in 4th Job.

 Spoiler

At level 100 the corsair in the above vids would have roughly 4864~ HP. Assume that's HP washed, you're gonna take a 2hko. Assume it isn't HP washed and we tack on an extra 1k hp which equates to 50 washes or rather 600 times you needed to have multiples of 10 int which brings it to 5864 which is still pretty dam close to a 2hko and 3hko against nest golems. Sure you level a bit more and tada, you can survive 3hits. You just used 150k+ NX to take an extra hit from training while you can just pot after getting hit like the rest of the fucking ranged MS community. With the ice shot skill, you probably won't take damage too much or at least a lot less, most likely never 2 hits in a row without potting. Skelegons do 3.5k~ magic damage when buffed up which happens pretty much always. From the vid, 6k hp doesn't happen until 150~. If that's washed, you're fucked. If it's not washed, again congratulations on wasting 150k+ NX on being able to take an extra hit from a monster.

Now then, assuming the adjusted HP value, at level 70 the outlaw will have roughly 3144~ HP using a 24 HP/Level scale

So with that same scale he'll have 2184 HP at level 30, and (subtracting 400 for the 2nd job advance) 1304 HP at level 10?

I think you're underestimating the amount of washing the Corsair did to get 6088 HP at 151.

@ Dusk
Apparently so...


Anyway, if you want a more accurate portrayal of a Gunslinger's HP without washing, use that 131 NL. 3330 HP at level 131. Since Gunslingers get 2 extra HP a level than sins, and that guy leveled up 121 times as a sin, add 242 HP for 3572 at 131. Maybe throw in an extra 100 for job advances to make it 3672.

Now to survive a Nest Golem hit say you need 3000. 672 less HP, at 24 HP/level, is exactly 28 levels. So the earliest an unwashed Gunslinger can survive a Nest Golem hit is at level 103, and even then just barely. Not 70 as you say.

And to do HT you need about 5000, let's be generous and say 4800. That means you need 1128 more HP at level 131, which at 24 HP/level is about 47 levels. So you get 4800 HP unwashed at 178. Now what do you think?

@Kaasooljoy

Oh man I can only facepalm over and over again.

First off, HP isn't adjusted. It's a range of 22~26 HP each level up. Second, a Level 70 Valkyrie has slightly above 2k HP (I had 2240 HP at 70 with HP bonuses from equips)

Without washing you don't reach 3000^ HP before Level 105+-, so me and shrapnel started washing in late lvl8x / early lvl9x so we had both 3000+ HP by lvl95~

If you wonder why, simply to be able to do top and bottom at newties earlier than level105, because the safe training you mentioned SUCKS exp wise once you reach lvl90, and freezing mid platform starts to suck too by late lvl9x.

So what do you do to boost up your exp?
Right! Wash HP so you can take on Nest Golems!

And ScreamImFire must've HP washed like insane, cause with the HP wash me and shrapnel do 5.5k HP at Lvl130 is impossible.

So please, before you continue your assumings just from stupid youtube videos that barely give out any info about the Valkyrie class, play an pirate, get your facts straight or stfu and go away.

Again, missing the pig picture, is it worth it to waste all the NX to get that extra HP to take an extra hit? Practically 99%+ of the rest of the ranged community isn't massively HP washed and they take 2hkos from training. If most of them found ways to survive that, I'm sure Pirates aren't going to expect enough HP to take an extra hit as opposed to learning how to pot.

@Above: Congratulations, you used NX in order to get to a training spot faster. If you can't stand the grind in the early levels, then how are you gonna stand it in the later levels.

And I'm using the resources that are available to me to the best that I can.

You don't need all that HP and HP wash, which was the original question that sparked all this debate. It's just a crutch.

Again, missing the pig picture, is it worth it to waste all the NX to get that extra HP to take an extra hit? Practically 99%+ of the rest of the ranged community isn't massively HP washed and they take 2hkos from training. If most of them found ways to survive that, I'm sure Pirates aren't going to expect enough HP to take an extra hit as opposed to learning how to pot.

Yes it is. I don't regret spending 45k NX on AP resets so I don't have to bother with 5% exp per hour at level 100.

Edit: How I'm going to stand it in later levels? Because 5% per hour at later levels is ok, but now at lvl10x I'm supposed to have a much higher exp rate thx to parties. But sadly due to timezones it's impossible for me to party, so I have to boost exp otherwise, right?

And, in party being able to take on Nest Golems is awesome too.

Yes it is. I don't regret spending 45k NX on AP resets so I don't have to bother with 5% exp per hour at level 100.

Deputy star, zhelm, creates enough hp/def to take nest hits, maybe even a couple more levels. Or you could snipe jr newties some more or train somewhere else. How much did your exp rate shoot up?

I'm actually done with this. Everyone has their own opinions over everything and guess what, that means we're all right and we're all wrong at the same time.

Again, missing the pig picture, is it worth it to waste all the NX to get that extra HP to take an extra hit? Practically 99%+ of the rest of the ranged community isn't massively HP washed and they take 2hkos from training. If most of them found ways to survive that, I'm sure Pirates aren't going to expect enough HP to take an extra hit as opposed to learning how to pot.

2526HP at 88. They don't have some godly pineappleed up base HP that destroys Archers and Thieves. The point of HP washing isn't so you can take one extra hit so you don't have to OGM POTION ONE HIT LATER. It's so if you take a hit, you don't pineappleing drop dead on the spot because the monster did an extra 100 damage on the off chance of its range, or you lag half a second you're not a pineappleing grave. You clearly have no idea how annoying it can be to die in a 2HKO map because you lag a half second, or some douchebag noob walks in and your monster becomes unpuppeted. Snipers can freeze, yet they still HP wash. Why do you think that is? It's not some all powerful stopping force that stops you from dying immediately after pressing the button. pomegranate happens, and then you pineappleing die.

Deputy star, zhelm, creates enough hp/def to take nest hits, maybe even a couple more levels. Or you could snipe jr newties some more or train somewhere else. How much did your exp rate shoot up?

From 5% to 15% / h. And I don't have Zhelm, kMS doesn't have deputy stars.

does anyone know how much HP the battleship for gunslingers has? And does the damage you take, directly do damage to your battleship. Ex. You take 100 damage, and your ship takes 100 dmg.

@ HP washing argument above.

You don't needa cry because you don't believe people need to HP wash. If they want to, let them, it can't hurt.

I can tell you right now it is a smart thing to do if your being a Gunslinger though.

does anyone know how much HP the battleship for gunslingers has? And does the damage you take, directly do damage to your battleship. Ex. You take 100 damage, and your ship takes 100 dmg.

I guess that answers it http://www.southperry.net/forums/showpos...tcount=447

I guess that answers it http://www.southperry.net/forums/showpos...tcount=447

Thnx for find. I was wondering the same.

Anyone know what monsters drop what bullets in other versions?